How to properly take care of Zoe

Barkley··4 votes·1,765 views

There's a few things that can be done, in my opinion. Pick one of the following, and she should be fine.

1.) Shorten the length of her CC. I shouldn't be vulnerable to taking double damage from an already high-burst mage for 2 full seconds. Her bubble hitting you is basically a death sentence, and its not even a hard skillshot to land. The AoE on it is fairly large. That, coupled with the fact that she can 100-0 you long before you can buy a QSS or Zhonyas makes laning against her very oppressive. By the time you can counterplay her, she's already 10/0.

2.) Take away one of the instances of damage on her bubble. This might help her NOT be able to 100-0 you at level 3, which few other (if any?) champions can do.

3.) Make her able to be CC'd out of her portal. I can't tell you how many times I, or a team mate, have landed a stun or root on her when she pops up, only to have her disappear anyway. The blink happens fast enough that it takes some skill to reliably land some CC on her while she appears. Players that are fast enough to capitalize on that should be able to, and the CC should stick then and there - not follow her back to her original position. LeBlanc can be stunned when she blinks, why can't Zoe? Zed can be stunned when he throws his shadow... The only other champions in the game that CC interacts with this way are Tristana and Ezreal - neither of which have NEARLY the same burst potential as Zoe.

4.) Raise the cooldown on her portal. Being able to just stand over the wall from someone's turret and blink-poke them to oblivion is ridiculous, and hardly fun to play against. Make her have to really think about when to use it, rather than just being able to do it basically whenever.

5.) The whole drowsy/sleep thing. Who else in this game has a 2-part CC like that? Nobody I can think of. Its either a slow or a stun... why is it both? Who thought this was a good idea? Stun me or slow me... doing both with one move is horrible. Especially one that's relatively easy to land.

6.) Again, the whole drowsy/sleep thing. Its either a heavy CC, or its a 2x damage amp. Why is it both? Who thought this was a good idea? What other champion in the game has a heavy CC (Stun, Root, Fear, Surpress) that also amplifies their already ridiculous damage against you by 100%? Nobody I can think of. ESPECIALLY one that is so easy to land, and on such a short cooldown.

7.) Remove the AoE from her Q. If she's gonna be that bursty, fine. If none of these other options work for you, fine. If she's gonna be able to 100-0 people at level 3, fine. At least make it to where she's a single target damage dealer. Make her an assassin. There's no reason she should be able to 100-0 one person if she lands her CC, and then bring everyone around that person to 30-50% hp along with it.

Somethings gotta give. This champion is just unfun to play against. Leaves no room for error, no room for counterplay. Make any mistake at all, and you're dead. Stand next to the person that made the mistake? You're probably still dead.

17 Comments

Barkley2 votes

Man... You must be master tier if your team never clumps up, you dodge every skillshot, and you manage to strategically get hit by something else every time you get put to sleep.

Barkley2 votes

@xavanic

Nope.. gold 5, same rank as me. Here, let me help you down off your soap box... You seem to be pretty high up there.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

@xavanic

Nope.. gold 5, same rank as me. Here, let me help you down off your soap box... You seem to be pretty high up there.

Holy shit, im in the same division as you, wtf.....you must have been carried to gold....the only problem zoe has is her base dmgs are too high, imo they should cut back and maybe give her an ap only scaling % ratio on her q (IE, maybe 3% max hp per 50 ap at a max range hit), but seriously dude, this champ is incredibly hard to play, Also, i don't dodge every skill shot, but even i havent had that much grief laning against zoe, your just bad at positioning and have little adaptability, like, zoe is strong in the laning phase yes, but she dies to basically anyone with a gap closer, if you want something op, you should have played Darius or Teemo with Aery pre patch, those were actually busted

Barkley2 votes

{quoted}

Holy shit, im in the same division as you, wtf.....you must have been carried to gold....

That, or your sweeping generalizations and "perfect world" scenarios were just you running your mouth to run your mouth for the sake of running your mouth.

I can dodge her skillshot. I can dodge her bubble. I'm pretty clearly talking about the instances where I don't (which occur for you too, whether you'll admit it or not) being far too punishing.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

That, or your sweeping generalizations and "perfect world" scenarios were just you running your mouth to run your mouth for the sake of running your mouth.

I can dodge her skillshot. I can dodge her bubble. I'm pretty clearly talking about the instances where I don't (which occur for you too, whether you'll admit it or not) being far too punishing.

So basically, what your saying is you feel she doesn't deserve to do damage for actually hitting her abilities? might aswell do the same thing to syndra, ahri, zed, talon, etc. then

Xavanic1 votes
  1. Ahri's charm lasts 2 seconds, ekkos stun lasts nearly 2 seconds, morgs q lasts 3 seconds, we should nerf those aswell if we nerf Zoe's CC

  2. If shes 1 shotting you that early, your positioning is very bad, her bubble has insanely short range

  3. learn to hit where shes going back to? like, her jump really isnt that bad, she can only blink to a location for 1 second, hell, she cant even use it as an escape

  4. If she blink pokes you under tower, she will eat a tower shot, this ability doesnt even do dmg and you wanna nerf it?

  5. Again, this ability is actually pretty hard to land, plus, if ANYTHING hits you when you fall asleep, its gone, learn to dodge skill shots?

  6. She has 2 real damage abilities in her whole kit (her w does basically nothing), and you wanna nerf her damage? thats like saying zileans damage needs a nerf

  7. Her q is very hard to hit, let alone hitting 4 other people, if your clumping against her like that, you deserve to have everyone bursted down

Zoe's been out for like a day, and your already complaining shes op, her q hitbox is small asf, her e is pretty short range and hard to land, her damage isnt that great early unless your LETTING her hit you, you seem to forget, her damage isn't as bad as some other champs, if you really wanna deal with her, rush a banshee's and shes basically unable to kill you, please, learn to play against the champ before you decide if shes broken

Clockwork Madoka1 votes

Give it a few days. I think she's pretty alright the way she is. I do think they should change Spell Thief a bit, maybe make it a bit more open to a support role and make it so nearby ally last-hits still cause the shard to drop?

Packun Flower1 votes

If you nerf Zoe's CC she'd never land another paddle star in lane again. It takes about 2 seconds for the star to travel to its target, sometimes longer. If your going to be salty about Zoe its because you dont understand how she plays. Position IS key. If your getting hit with bubble star combo its because you allowed yourself to.

With tgat said Zoe is just a tad strong. But not enough to warrent anh of those radical changes you purposed. I do think some damage and base numbers will tweaked later on.

Śhunpo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Annie x Zoe Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bkgx40lu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-22T08:07:25.913+0000)

If you nerf Zoe's CC she'd never land another paddle star in lane again. It takes about 2 seconds for the star to travel to its target, sometimes longer. If your going to be salty about Zoe its because you dont understand how she plays. Position IS key. If your getting hit with bubble star combo its because you allowed yourself to.

With tgat said Zoe is just a tad strong. But not enough to warrent anh of those radical changes you purposed. I do think some damage and base numbers will tweaked later on.

Ok, by that logic we should get pre-rework Rengar back since he punished you if you were ever out of position. You allowed yourself to die to the knife kitty because of your poor positioning.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, by that logic we should get pre-rework Rengar back since he punished you if you were ever out of position. You allowed yourself to die to the knife kitty because of your poor positioning.

Zoe, has a tiny little skill shot that has a smaller hitbox then mundos q and you want to take away from it? pre nerf rengar had some problems with his design that could have been solved, but instead they went and completely changed him

Packun Flower1 votes

That's not even close to being the same thing.

Old Rengar had virtually no counterplay, he, stealth, he clicked and you were dead with a single auto attack. didn't matter ii you were in the middle of your team or in your fountain. You couldn't stop it, there was literally nothing you could do to prevent. Old rengar was the definition of no counter play what so ever and that's why he was reworked.

With Zoe its a lot harder to land the burst. In fact, Zoe's burst compared to other burst mages I'd say is waaay hard to achieve. It needs to be set up, you need to predict where your opponent is going to be, and you need to catch them outside of this afty of a minion wave or from the outside the safety of the back line. The bubble helps with setting up the combo but if I bubble my opponent and he falls asleep behind a minion wave my paddle star is not likely going to reach him. On the off chance you do capitalize on an opponent's mistake being out of position then you get rewarded for it, that's how she works. You get rewarded for punishing bad plays. Someone like Annie doesn't need to wait, she just walks up and ults you and bursts you and your dead, Zoe can't do that.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Isn't she only released like a day...?

Catastrop1 votes

The only change I can agree with is that her Bubble should not deal damage. Sleep is a powerful CC effect because of how fantastic it is at setting up kills, having it do damage as well is just straight up unhealthy because it compresses so many things into one it straight up becomes overloaded and toxic to play against.

Scary Door1 votes

{quoted}

There's a few things that can be done, in my opinion. Pick one of the following, and she should be fine.

4.) Raise the cooldown on her portal. Being able to just stand over the wall from someone's turret and blink-poke them to oblivion is ridiculous, and hardly fun to play against. Make her have to really think about when to use it, rather than just being able to do it basically whenever.

Of all the points you brought up I would agree with this one the most.

Zoe has the potential to be Yasuo 2.0, except Yasuo is basically a pub-stomper that doesn't do well in the highest Elos or the pros, whereas Zoe might actually be a solid pro-pick in her current state. That, by itself, doesn't make her bad, but people say that she has a really high skill cap, but I watched one of my friends get 12 kills on her yesterday in a classic 21 minute nail biter, where he obliterated his lane opponent and chunked 50% of someone's health with Zoe (granted he was ahead, but my point is that it was his FIRST TIME playing her). He absolutely abused that ult to get a couple of easy kills.

She looks fun, I can't wait to test her out, but honestly I can see some serious tuning issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

Barkley1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bkgx40lu,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-11-22T16:47:43.730+0000)

Of all the points you brought up I would agree with this one the most.

people say that she has a really high skill cap, but I watched one of my friends get 12 kills on her yesterday in a classic 21 minute nail biter, where he obliterated his lane opponent and chunked 50% of someone's health with Zoe (granted he was ahead, but my point is that it was his FIRST TIME PLAYING HER

Yeah, this...

We had a match last night where someone got 20+ kills on her. Afterward two of the opponents were joking like "see I told you id do better than you my first time" "Yeah by 2 kills. Stfu"

Which means not only did that guy 20 kill pubstomp on his first try, his friend did too.

nm10101 votes
Barkley1 votes

{quoted}

Plat+

https://i.gyazo.com/2df49d7188c2650e19f01bfad750666d.png

No counterplay...

I wouldn't rely on this too heavily just yet. There's a reason most stat websites wait 3 days after a patch drops to show new data.

Let's look at this again on Thursday or Friday and see if it changes.

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