Zed buffs maybe a bit too much? Unsure

Toastey··7 votes·780 views

Pretty much what it says on the tin. Zed's been in the dumpster for a while, so I can understand why a lot of players might want him back to his former glory days. I'm just unsure if hitting him with 3-4 buffs in a row without double-checking everything first is treading a bit heavily. No, this isn't a Zed OP qq thread, I'm just a bit worried that we might be seeing Zed every game soon.

For those of you wondering what exactly these "Zed buffs" are, he recently got a range buff on his W (and ult if I recall), a damage buff on his ult, and he's going to be getting a new AD assassin item along with new assassin-specific masteries.

In other news, I do not look forward to Rengars spamming the new AD assassin item.

10 Comments

Nahui1 votes

I think the buffs themselves are fine. Like a Red described, it was a buff to Zed's skill cap. Basically, good players will feel the buff and average players won't. I don't remember if his W got a range buff, I just know you can teleport to your shadow once played from a greater range, essentially helping outplay rather than actually extending its reach. His ult received 10% more damage on its first rank. I think, however, that the new assassin item might make him a bit problematic. They did try and keep Zed's damage from sky rocketing by making the damage take two seconds to proc after an auto attack, so it will actually be kind of hard for Zed to incorporate it into his ult, however, like with his buffs, it will be more of a skill based buff for Zed in that he has to begin his ult with an auto attack, rather than mash QWE in the order he chooses which could inhibit his damage. We will see, and I guarantee that they are testing this item with Zed intently along with the rest of the champs in the game.

What I like about this item is that it gives you a chance to complete your assassination in case you "fail". Under the right conditions this item could execute so all those assassinations that left the ADC at like 50 health no longer will :)

Toastey3 votes

I feel like players shouldn't be rewarded for failing. If you failed your assassination and left the ADC at 50 HP, they deserve to live and you deserve to lose that kill. Giving low-skill or unlucky assassin players a free second try in the form of an item feels like unnecessary babying.

ApexInTheCircle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYc8ZtRA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T22:09:50.826+0000)

I feel like players shouldn't be rewarded for failing. If you failed your assassination and left the ADC at 50 HP, they deserve to live and you deserve to lose that kill. Giving low-skill or unlucky assassin players a free second try in the form of an item feels like unnecessary babying.

I'm prepared to get downvoted for saying this but....Here goes. This is why I love Talon for, if you fuck up your assassination you're either dead or you're out of the fight. I fucking hate AllState champions or (accident forgiveness champions.) Like ekko and Zed who screw up bad and just hit R and get away scratch free. These mechanics in of themselves leave the champion in a far better state than most others.

Nahui1 votes

{quoted}

I'm prepared to get downvoted for saying this but....Here goes. This is why I love Talon for, if you fuck up your assassination you're either dead or you're out of the fight. I fucking hate AllState champions or (accident forgiveness champions.) Like ekko and Zed who screw up bad and just hit R and get away scratch free. These mechanics in of themselves leave the champion in a far better state than most others.

An assassination is always a failure if the target doesn't die. Even if Zed or Ekko fuck up, if they get away they've still lost that. Just because some assassins are designed to have an anti fuck up means there really any better than other assassins.

Scratch free is also a bit of an exaggeration.

Nahui1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYc8ZtRA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T22:09:50.826+0000)

I feel like players shouldn't be rewarded for failing. If you failed your assassination and left the ADC at 50 HP, they deserve to live and you deserve to lose that kill. Giving low-skill or unlucky assassin players a free second try in the form of an item feels like unnecessary babying.

The problem is so many anti assassin champs have come out that assassins are currently at a disadvantage. It's unfair that one can simply pick Tahm Kench and guarantee an ADC never be assassinated. Ever. An item like this is designed so that beating an assassin and making the game a 4v5 isn't simply "Lol CC". CC remains to be counter play, however an item with a delayed reaction like this I think is a nice way for assassins to have their own counterplay to what seems to be so much CC.

Also it isn't like ADCs weren't a bit benefited vs assassins this time around. The new phantom dancer, some tank runes for a support, and situationally death's dance have cut assassin damage by quite a lot so they're working ways to improve their damage specifically. They want to keep assassins relevant basically. Not have them just fall off and be useless like they're prone to be since they can't quite snowball out of control as well anymore.

Toastey1 votes

I understand that concern, and I recognise that assassins definitely need to be addressed and firmly seated into their niche with the advent of League's mobility creep and the recent overhaul/buff to the ADC role (which, to be fair, was down in the dumpster for over a year). However, I don't think that this particular knife is the correct or optimal way of addressing assassins. It's honestly a really lazily constructed item.

"Assassins are having trouble!" "Here, have a pile of nice stats so you can do More Damage, along with a passive ability that gives you Even More Damage™."

The issue was never assassins not having enough damage or enough stats. The item isn't even skill-based, since Nightfall is a passive. At least make it like a Youmu's; that is, a temporary empowerment that a player must remember to use and must be clutch about using. Honestly, the new assassin item feels like an unnecessary amount of babying to assassin players---something that many of them may not even want. I know several assassin players who play the role specifically because of the high-intensity, high-skill, one-in-a-million assassinations. It'd actually take away from the identity of good assassin players to have an item introduced that's a pile of delicious stats and a Free Extra Damage passive.

Assassins are supposed to outsmart you. They're supposed to pick the most opportune moments to make one game-changing move---whether it be by catching you completely off guard, or by crashing down on you when you dread it most. Assassin players should be made to weave through the thick of battle to find their marks; indeed, that's what makes good assassin players like Bjergsen, like PawN, like Faker---that's what makes them incredible to watch: their intellect, their precision, their skill.

tldr if there's to be a new assassin item, it should be heavily tied to skill, and it should most definitely not be a candy bowl of Stats Players Want.

Nahui1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYc8ZtRA,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2015-12-23T07:22:26.959+0000)

I understand that concern, and I recognise that assassins definitely need to be addressed and firmly seated into their niche with the advent of League's mobility creep and the recent overhaul/buff to the ADC role (which, to be fair, was down in the dumpster for over a year). However, I don't think that this particular knife is the correct or optimal way of addressing assassins. It's honestly a really lazily constructed item.

"Assassins are having trouble!" "Here, have a pile of nice stats so you can do More Damage, along with a passive ability that gives you Even More Damage™."

The issue was never assassins not having enough damage or enough stats. The item isn't even skill-based, since Nightfall is a passive. At least make it like a Youmu's; that is, a temporary empowerment that a player must remember to use and must be clutch about using. Honestly, the new assassin item feels like an unnecessary amount of babying to assassin players---something that many of them may not even want. I know several assassin players who play the role specifically because of the high-intensity, high-skill, one-in-a-million assassinations. It'd actually take away from the identity of good assassin players to have an item introduced that's a pile of delicious stats and a Free Extra Damage passive.

Assassins are supposed to outsmart you. They're supposed to pick the most opportune moments to make one game-changing move---whether it be by catching you completely off guard, or by crashing down on you when you dread it most. Assassin players should be made to weave through the thick of battle to find their marks; indeed, that's what makes good assassin players like Bjergsen, like PawN, like Faker---that's what makes them incredible to watch: their intellect, their precision, their skill.

tldr if there's to be a new assassin item, it should be heavily tied to skill, and it should most definitely not be a candy bowl of Stats Players Want.

Actually Riot addressed the concern about why it isn't active. The reason is to add some skill to the item. They determined that if it was an active, people would simply wait till the target had low health to effectively use the item every time, unlike now where it happens on your auto attack no matter what, so the only way to "control" the exact timing would be to not auto attack, something that is obviously not going to happen.

Toastey1 votes

implying that a passive item takes more skill to use than an active one

Nice Meme Dude

Nahui1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYc8ZtRA,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-24T05:19:03.241+0000)

Nice Meme Dude

To use effectively, yes. It takes far more skill, or else everyone would just proc it at low health and auto win.

l Helios l1 votes

Link?

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