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minion spawning champions feel unskilled and unfun to play against

The Deckowner··7 votes·1,026 views

When playing against champions like Malzahar, Zyra, even to some extend donger(not as much as the first two), it feels like they take no skill to play because how the minions does everything for them, and it feels super unfun to play against them, because you are fighting the minions spawns instead of the champions. when their numbers are good and the minion AI is decent it feels like the minion can just fuck you over without the enemy doing anything at all(especially when they are so hard to kill), and when the AI is bad the champion feels like shit to play and is basically a joke. What can be done to make them feel more fair and take more skill? When zyra with no item misses her QWE but the plant spawns shred half your hp in lane it doesn't feel fair at all. And I don't think Malzahar pressing W then press E on enemy takes much skill or decision making(especially with his e giving free mana.)

12 Comments

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

I miss old Malz D=!

The Deckowner3 votes

yah, old Malz never gave me cancer, jist aids.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bW0Etj8T,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-28T05:58:46.488+0000)

yah, old Malz never gave me cancer, jist aids.

Malz was probably even less fun to play against pre-rework. At least now he doesn't hit one Malefic Visions on you and you're down to half HP. He was also more boring to play as, you just drop an E and walk off, occasionally you'd QWER, or WEQR, but your E did more damage than your ultimate.

mosaickle1 votes

But his R is mean to be chained with your W, of course his R alone should deal less than E otherwise WR combos would be far too obnoxious.

But then again that's why Riot made it so that Malz R has that old W since everyone casts it together there's no point making it 2 separate abilities

Variks the Loyal2 votes

Don't say nothin' about my Yorick.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

The skill in minion control champions is controlling the minions. It's a lot harder than you think.... sometimes.

Cheetah Nidalee1 votes

i dont really have a problem with the minions spam mechanic.. more of the fact that they block single target skillshots like a Blitzcrank pull Morgana bind,Nidalee spear, etc. there is no reason for them to need to do that. obsoiuly thier coded as minions and thats why it happens but its still kinda dumb to play vs

The Deckowner2 votes

The most bullshit thing is that minions were coded so they can't be easily killed by aoe or ranged skillshots, so they not only block your very important skillshot, but also doesn't die because of it.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bW0Etj8T,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-28T19:35:34.679+0000)

The most bullshit thing is that minions were coded so they can't be easily killed by aoe or ranged skillshots, so they not only block your very important skillshot, but also doesn't die because of it.

The skill that comes with positioning your minions to block skillshots for you is actually harder than it looks. As for AOE killing them, if AOE killed them then they'd literally be useless for the duration of a game, making such champions useless as well, since their whole gimmick is controlling the minions. I'm also pretty sure most champions can 1-2 hit minions. Spiderlings iirc die to 1 auto, Yorick's mist walkers do as well. Malzahar's are a bit different because of one difference. He needs one minion to spawn more. If that one minion dies before he spawns more then he's useless for another 20-16 seconds depending on rank with no CDR. Max CDR would be like 10 seconds without the 45% mastery which would be 9 seconds, this is also with max rank of course. At least he gets 2 tries now but they don't multiply by killing minions so your minions are useless for pushing waves unless you kill a champion with them. Yorick's mist walkers are borderline useless if someone actually kills them before he can get them going(why I wait for someone to go in on me to spawn them if I'm playing him). One thing I can say about Yorick is I've never burned so many flashes as a top laner in my life until I played him into my normal hard matchups for other champs I use, lol.

But yeah, do you know HOW MUCH AOE is in the game? Almost every champion in the game has some form of AOE, if minions could be killed by AOE so easily the champions would basically be not worth picking. Same for ranged autos. If you can hit a minion with a ranged auto before it even gets to you to do it's job, what would be the point in picking the champion since all of their damage is loaded into that one gimmick. Though still you can 1 hit pretty much most minions with one auto either way, at least Spiderlings and Mist Walkers.

The Deckowner1 votes

It would be quite skillful to control spawns to block skillshots, but what happens in reality is that most of these champions has no direct control on the movement of the spawns. All the play need to do is position the champion behind the spawn just like how ranged champions would hide behind minions in lane to avoid getting hit by skillshots.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bW0Etj8T,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-29T02:27:24.831+0000)

It would be quite skillful to control spawns to block skillshots, but what happens in reality is that most of these champions has no direct control on the movement of the spawns. All the play need to do is position the champion behind the spawn just like how ranged champions would hide behind minions in lane to avoid getting hit by skillshots.

Malzahar's W can be used at the right time in the right place to block skillshots. Otherwise his minions just chase the enemy he E'd. You're probably not gonna want to hit a skillshot on him while minions are chasing you with a DoT ability that can be refreshed with his long range silence in the first place unless you're under tower.

BastionKross1 votes

For Malzahar, his rework moved a lot of his damage into his voidlings. And then the recent changes moved even more of his kit's damage into his voidlings. It's gotten to the point where Q, E, and R tickle compared to the abilities of other mages, but his voidlings will absolutely delete you if they catch you. That's not fair or healthy for anyone, including the Malz.

Zyra is what would happen if Heimerdinger could place turrets at long range without actually needing to be there. Her plants may be temporary, but they deal extreme amounts of damage in a short time and can take quite a bit of effort to get rid of. Unlike the Donger however, Zyra has the luxury of two forms of hard CC to hold you in place for her pets to DPS you down; and both of those are much, much easier to hit than Donger's grenade.

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