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@RiotRepetoir Spear Of Shoji Shouldn't go live and here's why and the problems i can see with it.

Laceration·5/18/2018, 12:08:15 AM·80 votes·20,920 views
Gyazo

Going to list the problems with this item that I see after looking at it

  • Too much AD for how strong the item is defensively, should only give around 35-40
  • Item is basically Bone Plating but way better. ( Bone plating taken on anyone who can go Resolve secondary because of how OP flat damage reduction is pre-mitigation)
  • with 150 bonus AD ( that's average Bonus AD I'll see during a game on either class relative to when games end ) the item gives 32.5 damage reduction, that's already as good as boneplating and it's on perma. It can also be combined with bone plating to further the effectiveness. In a teamfight 32.5 x 200% = 97.5. broken.
  • Lategame it's going to make Assassins hard to burst in teamfights which will lower the skillfloor of playing assassins. (Pissing off lower elo's)
  • bruisers going to burst adc's while soaking tank level's of damage.

What I suggest is to make the passive only work against auto attacks, that way it will be be doing it's job while not screwing over casters since flat damage reduction is less effective against dps while better against burst. (obviously because dps will continue to deal damage and net overall more damage dealt than burst)

104 Comments

AceBlack5/18/2018, 1:34:17 AM51 votes

Uhh, did they forget Jhin gets around 900 bonus ad by late game?

Aatrox Mid 1v55/18/2018, 12:36:48 AM31 votes

item 3047 item 3046 item 3812 + that item would make Graves literally unkillable. even being genourous and just including the flat 10% minus the AD scaling from that item; thats still subtracts up to 62% upfront damage. if an ADC were to normally crit for 435, it would only end up doing around 165.

Shåwn5/18/2018, 12:12:38 AM21 votes

{quoted}

What I suggest is to make the passive only work against auto attacks, that way it will be be doing it's job while not screwing over casters

Yes I agree with this. It will allow the item to fill a role of being able to provide squishies with a solid defensive option against immense sustained auto attack damage which is often found in the fray of a 5v5 while not further nerfing or hurting casters. Often times sustained auto attack damage is the main source of damage that squishies receive in 5v5 fights later in the game.

Leonerdo5/18/2018, 3:00:44 AM15 votes

flat damage reduction is less effective against dps while better against burst

You have it entirely backwards. DPS = many hits over time = many instances of flat damage reduction. Burst = a few strong hits = only a few applications of flat damage reduction.

CppL5/18/2018, 5:29:27 AM12 votes

heeeyyy another amazing ad item...what a surpise.

BakedLotion5/18/2018, 3:07:40 AM12 votes

Why do AD champs always get defensive items

As if they fucking need them...

Meanwhile mages get Zhonyas and Banshees lmfao... And guess what? They're both niche.

RacoonHunter5/18/2018, 2:51:51 AM7 votes

if that goes live.. then both Tryndamere 's ult, item 3812 and item 3046 needs to be nerfed as well.

I know people have already mentioned Graves , but when you look at all the other bruiser that will build this.. Darius Fiora Camille etc.. it's just TOO much suitability with almost 0 counter play.. at least SOME healing is mitigated from grevious.. although, how much it stops is almost pathetic these days it seems..

Mordepool5/18/2018, 12:57:35 AM7 votes

The true damage from IE will ignore that damage reduction so there is that

DeusVult5/18/2018, 2:37:39 AM6 votes

Riot had me going with all the changes to the AD items and the introduction of even more true damage. A bunch of changes that target buff assassins. Now they come back to PBE with even more items that will help assassins and light fighters do what is meant to be a tanks job; teamfight. That is supposed to be the difference between how you play the classes. If skirmishers and light fighters can now dive in with impunity because of items like Spear of Shojin and the new styled Steraks, there will be no reason to play tanks because they will die as quickly as skirms with less mobility and damage.

Dasdi965/18/2018, 1:08:57 AM6 votes

This item will be a complete fuck you to dot mages.

rtbf2234347215/18/2018, 11:27:47 AM5 votes

Yasuo new defensive item.

Jinzo Torrance5/18/2018, 1:08:04 AM5 votes

Yeah, remove that shit, DoT will do 0 damage with that crap in the game

Done255/18/2018, 12:21:23 AM5 votes

How did you get 130 out of 32.5X3? Try a little less than 99 damage.

Zeppelins circus5/18/2018, 1:11:22 AM5 votes

They just reaaaaly want graves to be meta for the whole year. How about adding a note "Unpurchasable on graves."

DontPush NoGank5/18/2018, 12:04:44 PM5 votes

oh yes .. we needed more unkillable destroyers in the game. amirite?

Neptunia xoxo5/18/2018, 12:37:59 PM5 votes

Just reading this item makes my blood boil lmfao how awful of a dev do you have to be to not see right away that this item is problematic as hell?

Best Ekko NA5/18/2018, 2:42:31 PM4 votes

Like 90% of the stuff I read and see on these boards makes me cringe. All the people on these boards do not know anything about what balance looks like and yet want to call things broken and down vote the hell out of posts supporting the item, before they've actually seen it in the game. This item is not even close to broken, it's simply something much different from what has been seen in the game previously.

There is a lot of damage in the game, melee bruisers are struggling hardcore, and this item is a pretty good answer for helping them.

Zalinthel5/18/2018, 4:07:56 PM3 votes

Anti-synergy with other damage reductions (its applied first).

30% effectiveness versus any multi-tick damage source (dots, Garen E etc.)

Dependent on building a substantial amount of AD to get real returns out of it.

The tripling effect needs 3 people fairly close to you and is windowed unless you're murdering people back to back.

None of this sounds terribly outrageous. Tuning the item might be needed, perhaps messing with the base, changing the scaling or adding health scaling and reducing the AD scaling, but the concept seems fine.

Demonblade Talon5/18/2018, 1:23:29 AM3 votes

Who is NOT going to build this item?...

Aimléss5/18/2018, 1:39:34 AM3 votes

What is the purpose of this item? Is it just to make assassins meta without increasing their damage or something?

Titanium705/18/2018, 1:48:03 PM3 votes

The strenght of the Item doesn't concerns me that much tbh.

What I have some Issues with is how it will work. Are Singed Heimerdinger Garen Kayle Varus even playable with this thing in-game?

Heimer and SInged will deal most literally ZERO DMG. Garen while being a user himselfe also get rekt by it. Shoji as much as I know could easily double its effect VS Kayle, Varus and firends since they deal both AA-dmg AND Ability-dmg in one blow.

Than again a Jhin or a Zed couldn't care less about this Item.

It offers so much asymmetrical strenght - I don't see how this could be a healthy addition to the item pool in ANY case.

flibitydoo5/18/2018, 6:52:53 AM3 votes

At the very least, the first issue with this item forefront is it has zero drawbacks for ranged champions.

lot of them are running death's dance, this item can just as easily be abused.

Romans VI XXIII5/18/2018, 2:41:10 PM3 votes

Gunna love building this on Garen :)

I think the 15% bonus AD needs to be removed, and changed to scaling Flat reduction. Like 10 +2 per lvl.

Cause remember it gives 65AD, that means it alone gives 10 + (65×.15) = 19.75 Flat damage reduction. Which is insane.

Trias0005/18/2018, 6:07:30 PM3 votes

Jesus tapdancing Christ, am I seeing this? Are we gonna have a tank Jhin now?

Romans VI XXIII5/18/2018, 5:16:57 PM2 votes

This is OP as fuck vs DoT...... needs to be changed to a % rather than a flat amount....

Krytoric5/18/2018, 10:16:40 AM2 votes

Good god the stats on that item are broken.

revliledpembroke5/18/2018, 11:29:44 AM2 votes

Dear lord... I already hate assassins enough as is, do I really want to see what could happen if they could have 200% damage reduction?

big boi edri5/18/2018, 6:21:44 PM2 votes

Is flat reduction calculated before or after percent reduction? Like if I red smite someone and have this item, would it reduce 20% damage after the flat reduction?

My Waifu Vanilla5/18/2018, 2:07:00 PM2 votes

Your logic is flawed. Let's take your 97.5 number. What is it more effective against? The annie that does 1600 damage over 4 hits or the jinx that does 1800 over 6? One is basically 25% reduction (100 off of an average 400 hit) while another is 33% (100 off of 300). If it is calculated after armor/mr then that Darius with deadmans on the enemy team is actually never going to die to the enemy ADC since he has ridiculous base armor and gets an absurd amount of AD from his passive.

Also heaven forbid you have an ability that hits multiple times to get reduced that many times like any of Shyvana's kit, Xayah E, or Urgot W. Actually do negative damage later. Urgot already has a bad enough time against Bone Plating in lane if he can't pop it with Q.

Akali is SO HOT5/18/2018, 2:52:47 AM2 votes

This will be a niche item on Assassins. There are more important items to get before that one and it has an awkward build path.

Vectros5/18/2018, 7:19:03 PM2 votes

Wait, isn't flat damage reduction better vs DPS, NOT burst? Say for example you have a constant 100 damage reduction on. Annie hits you with a spell for 700 damage; gets reduced to 600.

An ADC hits you 3 times for 300 damage each; each is reduced by 100, making her damage total 600. Same end result despite ADC having 200 more damage spread over 3 attacks.