Can Qiyana lose some damage in exchange for more reliability?

Yenn··3 votes·1,227 views

This champion is really awkward. She plays like an assassin and has assassin-level damage, but she has none of the tools needed to assassinate anything.

Her kit makes it seem like she was intended to be some sort of weird 'jungle assassin,' since she can only fully utilize her kit in the jungle and river, but her jungling is incredibly bad. In lane, walls are often too far to hit with her ult, and opponents will generally just stay in the middle, because you have no zoning tools to force them towards a wall.

The only way she can get close enough to assassinate a target alone is by using a Brush Q, which means she can't perform her burst combo, which is necessary to do enough damage to kill. You don't want to ever go in on someone unless you're guaranteed to get a kill, because she doesn't have any survivability or mobility for a solid 6 seconds after the combo.

If she's left alone in lane without any jungle intervention, she just automatically loses to every ranged champion. She's easily bullied and can't get in range to use her E against most casters, meaning she needs to use a Brush Q instead of a double Q combo if she wants any interaction with her opponent. This is often undesirable, because without the double Q, you won't kill them and you'll be stuck past the middle of the lane with no way to escape or follow up.

Since she can't win lane, the only option is to roam to other lanes. But she also does a very poor job of this. Her movement speed bonus is so low that it's basically worthless. She doesn't get any unconventional gank paths, like Kayn or Talon. She can't quickly get on top of her target from the fog of war, like Zed or Katarina. She has zero chance of a successful gank unless she's going to a lane that can lock down the opponent while she gets in range, and she also has to rely on them clearing any wards.

She basically feels like an AD version of Diana with none of the survivability and too many conditions on everything. You need an entire team working with you in order to satisfy the specific set of conditions she needs to function, but at the point you have that, you're probably better off playing something else.

8 Comments

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

She has the tools she needs. Water -> Q -> E -> Rock -> Q -> Bail. That said, I play her more like her own role than I do an assassin. Something of a harassing skirmisher role.

Yenn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bM2woNwE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-15T01:39:09.177+0000)

She has the tools she needs. Water -> Q -> E -> Rock -> Q -> Bail. That said, I play her more like her own role than I do an assassin. Something of a harassing skirmisher role.

Why would any ranged champion, under any circumstance, ever get in range of Qiyana's Q while she's holding water? How do you propose to 'bail' without mobility and all of your abilities on cooldown?

Aside from that, if you could actually do this (which you can't outside of shit elo), it would kill the opponent, so it's a non-issue. This is some weird shit that would only work in Bronze.

preternatural2 votes

{quoted}

Why would any ranged champion, under any circumstance, ever get in range of Qiyana's Q while she's holding water? How do you propose to 'bail' without mobility and all of your abilities on cooldown?

Aside from that, if you could actually do this (which you can't outside of shit elo), it would kill the opponent, so it's a non-issue. This is some weird shit that would only work in Bronze.

btw, it is so disastrously easy to get onto ranged champions as qiyana that her E range will likely get nerfed lol.

preternatural1 votes

what are you talking about, she has SO MUCH target access it's actually a fucking joke to me. and her EQ combo actually needs to be removed, still dunno why she needs that.

Yenn2 votes

{quoted}

what are you talking about, she has SO MUCH target access it's actually a fucking joke to me. and her EQ combo actually needs to be removed, still dunno why she needs that.

Her only target access is a 650 range targeted dash. She can't use W or Brush Q to gain range, because it prevents her double Q combo, which is where all of her damage comes from. Even if she could, it only adds about 150 range.

Zed's W is 650 range and R is 625, so he can potentially get on a target from 1275 range. Talon's Q is 575 range and he has stealth, a massive movement speed boost, and the ability to jump walls. Diana's Q + R is 825 range. Katarina's E is 775 range and resets.

You're clearly playing some other game that isn't League.

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

Her only target access is a 650 range targeted dash. She can't use W or Brush Q to gain range, because it prevents her double Q combo, which is where all of her damage comes from. Even if she could, it only adds about 150 range.

Zed's W is 650 range and R is 625, so he can potentially get on a target from 1275 range. Talon's Q is 575 range and he has stealth, a massive movement speed boost, and the ability to jump walls. Diana's Q + R is 825 range. Katarina's E is 775 range and resets.

You're clearly playing some other game that isn't League.

W - get's to cut out terrain and move faster near selected terrain, does not go on cooldown like talon. that is flank material and it's frankly automatic. E - targeted dash, you can go through minions if you want and it can go over walls if targeted over walls. W - untargeted dash on a 4 second cooldown. item 3142 - active

she has target access, more so than the others because of her out of combat movement speed near selected terrain and her mini dash. she also has greater range than the others with her ulti, but we don't count qiyana's ulti because of what? do you know that you can kill someone who is at T2 sidelane brush from your own base as qiyana? i don't see the other assassins getting to do this unless they expend effort. (really the actual range is from inhibitor to T1 if you so wish but rather than mention that let's pretend qiyana struggles for range or access or "reliability" if elements are being rotated correctly. and don't say it's situational because talon's E is situational, kata's E is situational, zed's R is situational cause most zed's i see ult themselves into a CC laden team and a support waiting with an exhaust ready.

if qiyana gets to E a squishy, that person dies, same goes for some tanks quite frankly.

StormBladeMaster1 votes

Lose dmg ? no, her dmg is behind others assassins. She has the lowest dmg out of all assassins on a single target. Her dmg are more "zone dmg" than "unique target dmg" which make her difficult to kill someone in 1vs1 but good in teamfighting.

More reliability ? Yeah probably, compared to other assassins, her mobility can't help her to reach adcs or ranged target. She is slow compared to other assassins.

But people don't want buff on her because they are sick of assassins. Qiyana must be the only "non fustrating" assassin to play vs so they don't want a buff on her even tought she would need one.

A meta of Akali, Zed, Rengar, Kha'zix, Talon, Leblanc disguted everyone of assassins so nobody want to buff an assassin anymore except the assassins mains.

That why people are disliking you and trying to argue that she is "god like" even tought her win rate is shitty and her reliability not good. Assassins made everyone sick of them and since Qiyana is an assassin, people are like "no, don't buff her".

If the meta was less oppressing, buffing Qiyana wouldn't be a problem because she needs it.

But since the meta is horrible, people are against assassins.

Qiyana is the worst assassin in the game because she don't succed in her role but she succed as a sort of "AD mage".

These people behind in the comment who are like "wtf, her E is op !", must never have played vs Diana, Zed, Akali, Rengar or Kha'zix. Qiyana dash are ridiculous compared to others assassins dashes.

Diana R is Qiyana E + W for the range, nothing OP...

Yenn1 votes

> Her out of combat 5% movement speed boost is target access! 15 movement speed is not target access.

> She can jump over thin walls! That's not target access. These walls are only located in the jungle.

> Her W is a dash! It locks her out of her assassination combo. She gets access to her target and then can't kill it.

> Ghostblade active! If you want to AFK farm to Ghostblade before doing literally anything to help your team, you may as well just play another assassin.

This is why we need rank restricted forums. It's impossible to have actual discussion on champion balance when threads are inevitably inundated with unskilled players who don't understand the game or mechanics.

I shouldn't have to explain how low the value of 15 out of combat movement speed near terrain is. Compare this to Taliyah, who gets 60+ movement speed.

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