Jungle changes were amazing, as a top/mid laner

Anime Fizz·Feb 2, 2019·16 votes·6,338 views

I can actually kill junglers 1v1 now if they are not fed (as it should be, since im stuck on a lane for most of the early game while the junglers get to pve and roam the whole map/impact the whole map), its wonderful.

Finally all the goons that spammed khazix/graves and 1v5d every game for freelo are all losing their undeserved ranks.

Red smite is still OP (and lvl 2 ganks are still obnoxious) but atleast early game ganking junglers can actually fall behind if they dont get fed, finally there is a trade off for ganking non stop and falling the ganks, and at the same time the changes made tank and utility junglers more viable as they dont need as much exp/gold to function.

Great changes overall riot, good work on that one.

18 Comments

YennFeb 2, 201912 votes

Uh, no, I play both jungle and lane roles and can assure you that jungle is significantly harder than sitting in a lane and whacking minions or regurgitating the same strategy you use for that specific match up in every game. Even jungling in a winning game is 10x more taxing than playing a lane.

And no, these changes are only good at low MMR.

Moody PFeb 2, 20197 votes

correct, everyone playing actual difficult roles enjoys this change

TitanAnteusFeb 2, 201922 votes

Jungle's probably the hardest role in the game by far though?

Anime FizzFeb 2, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Jungle's probably the hardest role in the game by far though?

It hasant been ever since they introduce the whole "catch up exp".

Jungle used to be very punishing (anyone remember old trick videos where he would outplay the other jungler so hard that they would be lvl 3 while he was 6?), but on the last years it became the easiest role in the game (other than support in the ardent meta, or a mage support in current meta, specially something like zyra holy shit literally 0 skill champ) because you simply never got punished for playing poorly, you could spam ganks, fail all of them, go clear a single camp and gain a full level on it and back to the same lvl as everyone else, it was beyond stupid, then they added shit like colored smites (having to hit a Q to gank someone as lee? Why not point and click slow them from range first!) and it only became worse, because they became more and more powerful in combat so that would make ganks basically just free gold (since you can even 1v1 the other top, on a 2v1 its just a execution).

Ppl can actually get outplayed and fall behind in lane and then be denied resources, that was not possible in the jungle in the last few years, so the game became a contest of "which junglers ganks more/camps more a lane will win", which is of course, horrible for the recieving end.

BigFBearFeb 2, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bK2HBk4F,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T00:41:43.683+0000)

because you simply never got punished for playing poorly, you could spam ganks, fail all of them, go clear a single camp and gain a full level on it and back to the same lvl as everyone else.

You have clearly 0 clue about jungling. Such Bullshit. You probably see some jungle videos and maybe play some jungle games in low Elo years ago. Otherwise you wouldn't talk like that.

Probably frustrated laner.

And all you guys post with you unranked accounts. So poor. Show me your main profile. I want to see how much jungle experience you have.

Moody PFeb 2, 20194 votes

jungle hasn't been hard since smite items came out

Hong Kong AnnieFeb 2, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bK2HBk4F,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-02T00:49:01.668+0000)

jungle hasn't been hard since smite items came out

What iteration of the smite items are you talking about? The current one with the upgrades? The 2 similar versions before that? Or are you talking way back when the spirit stones required smite?

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 2, 20193 votes

LMAO.

Are jungle players actually serious about this?

Like serious? Do i even need to explain why jungle is second to support in difficulty?

3TWarriorFeb 2, 201911 votes

list of positions in difficulty from least to greatest: marksman/carry , top lane, support, mid lane, jungler

i'll make them on a list of experience levels as well but it'll only be inexperienced and experienced

inexperienced support, experienced marksman/carry, experienced top lane, experienced support, experienced mid laner, inexperienced top laner, experienced jungler, inexperienced mid laner, inexperienced marksman, inexperienced jungler

seriously, if you do not play warwick/nunu or copy-paste someone else's exact playstyle and route, jungle is stupidly hard

it requires the most macro decisions, external game knowledge for champion routes, matchup decisions (one change in playstyle can cause drastic problems)...you even have to weigh your team members on a scale of who to help and who not to on a moment's notice

imagine someone shouting at you "get out of my lane" when they would have died 4x in 5 minutes to a hypercarry...that's the jungler role

Anime FizzFeb 2, 20193 votes

{quoted}

list of positions in difficulty from least to greatest: marksman/carry , top lane, support, mid lane, jungler

i'll make them on a list of experience levels as well but it'll only be inexperienced and experienced

inexperienced support, experienced marksman/carry, experienced top lane, experienced support, experienced mid laner, inexperienced top laner, experienced jungler, inexperienced mid laner, inexperienced marksman, inexperienced jungler

seriously, if you do not play warwick/nunu or copy-paste someone else's exact playstyle and route, jungle is stupidly hard

it requires the most macro decisions, external game knowledge for champion routes, matchup decisions (one change in playstyle can cause drastic problems)...you even have to weigh your team members on a scale of who to help and who not to on a moment's notice

imagine someone shouting at you "get out of my lane" when they would have died 4x in 5 minutes to a hypercarry...that's the jungler role

Did you just say adc and top lane are easier than support and jungle?

EVERY SINGLE ROLE REQUIRES THOSE MACRO DECISIONS, its not hard to understand, supports have to do basically nothing else, jungle is basically PVE and spam ganks, it doesnt matter if you path poorly because outpathing basically doesnt exist anymore, its all about which jungler can get the most ganks in.

Holy shit lmao, have you guys never played a diamond + game in your lives?

From a high diamond player, if you guys want to know the actual level of difficulty of the roles CURRENTLY (metas make some roles harder to win with than in others):

From hardest to easiest TO PLAY:

ADC* > Top lane > Mid lane > Jungle > Support (and before this patch i would have put support before jungle).

*if you dont pick a mage, if you do, specially karthus then put this down with support, shits faceroll.

Now for the easiest roles to carry/win with:

From easiest to hardest TO WIN:

Jungle > Mid > Support > Top > Adc > Assassins (not really a position, but its by far the champ class that takes the most skill to carry/win a game with in anything above diamond).

3TWarriorFeb 2, 20198 votes

marksman/carry: personal bodyguard for half the game, primarily uses auto attacks after early game, almost all build the same and some even come with extensive measures to make themselves safer in lane

top laner: highest variety of matchups of any lane (or it was before the bruiser and mage mashup for bottom lane), every champion has specific niches that you have to cater to, vision is three times as important than two of the three other lanes, you are isolated against duelists and tower busters: one false move and you're either dead or your tower is gone; new strategies are created CONSTANTLY for top lane with the only lane that has more variation being the jungler... all while you are almost explicitly melee range, have the most expensive full items, and carry the middleground of teamfight importance with mid lane and carry being more highly-valued targets

support, you CAN run a shield setup but if you do, you are one of the worst supports for that playstyle. Bottom lane is the only lane with more vision impact than top lane, you have to keep a constant eye on the map to track all three lanes if you're good enough or more importantly, the jungler. You have to account for that you are not laning alone: your skill can mean NOTHING if your lane partner ruins what you work for, your playstyle changes drastically once the team fight phase starts, for example, as alistar, you switch from a defensive pick to an initiator; and now the lane has to account for the mage and bruiser matchups

I play 4 out of 5 positions reliably and prefer marksman and support. Yes, I stand by what I have said

jungler and mid are harder than being a good support which is harder than top which is harder than marksman/carry

IllabetheFeb 2, 20193 votes

Not really. On a macro level, the ability of supports to carry has been consistently diminished over time, as well as jungle. It's not about how easy or hard it is to earn gold. It's about how to survive your role when your allies are not survivors.

Any real support (not Brand, Vel Koz) will tell you: Their performance and ability to carry, even if good at playing, are tested and limited by the presence of their lane partner, jungler, etc. Unlike every other position, supports can be starved, or their kits are not designed to objectively turn around a challenging game. If a Nami's ADC never takes off,,,,, she's 3000 gold behind, doesn't finish her wards until 14:00, and has such low HP as a consequence that whatever divers are in the game just begin removing her from the game. Even if she plays well, is like 2/2/18, she has no choice but to watch a team take her nexus when her team is bad.

I'm also sorry, but Diamond jungle is brutal. Every game is a 3 man invade to starve your level 2-3 farm, and use you as a first blood. And no. Not just at level 1. After lane phase is supposed to start. Top/Mid roam and literally box you out of your jungle, while their lane minions pile up for them to come back. And if they succeed, they will do it nonstop until level 9. The only saving grace in these games: Your laners are farming unmutilated, so they have gold to carry you as the jungler.

I do generally agree Diamond support is easy - but it's not because the matchup isn't hard. It's easy because both team's bot lane consigns themselves to playing passively, because they know that trying to poke out of tune with farm will result in an instant death and a game snowball they cannot recover from. The Nami I play in Silver can do 25k damage 40k heals in a game. In Diamond II I'm lucky to get in 9k damage and 26k Heals, because the holes and opportunities are so slim that the only way to play is passively as a healer and defensive CC thrower. You also take far fewer warding risks, because staying to the lane is usually the safer bet.

You learn and adhere to this lane style. And you don't deviate. So yeah. Easy. But Easy because it's Hard to do anything else.

14daysuspensionkFeb 2, 20195 votes

{quoted}

LMAO.

Are jungle players actually serious about this?

Like serious? Do i even need to explain why jungle is second to support in difficulty?

Oh please, all you laners have to do is sit in lane quietly waiting to be ganked while we look after all 3 lanes like a mom trying to look after her 3 bratty children.

AjXtarFeb 2, 20192 votes

Yeah, right. The jungle nerfs made junglers gank more. I am a top laner too and I hate that thing.

Junglers needs to stay more in the jungle and Riot needs to reduce the spawn time for camp and reduce the gold/exp because otherwise they will get too much. What Riot did with the nerfs was to force junglers gank more because with kills they can get more exp and jungle gives less now.

and we still have one jungler per game because how dominant the jungle is.

0 HogapuFeb 2, 20192 votes

I was Katarina with 3 kills

ennemy XinZhao with 2 kills all in me and dies

XinZhao : "wtf"

God it felt good

IllabetheFeb 2, 20192 votes

In other words, you're ecstatic that junglers are permanently 2-3 levels behind you irregardless of how good or bad they are.

14daysuspensionkFeb 2, 20191 votes

Eh, I'm still a Nidalee main jungler.

hhaavviikkFeb 2, 20191 votes

deal with it, junglers are the new ADC's, remember how ADC's used to be proclaimed to be the most difficult role in existance? of yeah ADC mains went on and on about it, then it was support going on and on about how their role is the most difficult role in existence, now it's jungler's turn to proclaim their role is the most difficult one in existence, obviously jungle mains are going to say that just like how ADC/support mains say their role is the most difficult one.

personally don't see the difficulty in it,if I feel like it that season I play 10 ranked matches a season in jungle for easy wins to be placed in gold and get rewards, unless you're in like high diamond there is nothing difficult about jungling