we need more tanks like sion

Dr Dog·Dec 19, 2018·5 votes·3,990 views

theres a reason sion is pretty much the most successful tank to date, he has a lot of skill expression i think most of us can agree that tanks on average have the most simple, boring, linear and low skill capped kits in the game as they are a macro play class, tanks are supposed to be dead rn but theres one tank that stays reliant, the one with the least linear kit, sion is open, he has options, he has a good skill ceiling and i dont think him being the only real meta tank is a coincidence. hell even think of some champions that need a rework, a lot of tanks will be on that list IE , we need more tanks with open kits

25 Comments

EschetonDec 19, 20185 votes

He's a close to midrange caster-Tank. Who can actually tank, cc and threaten. And who can pull aggro even when dead. His rework is the golden standard. Dat voicework.

He can splitpush and teamfight. And can adjust his build to fit either as the game goes on.

He can actually be played in Challenger.

A lot of champions are not viable beyond Diamond.

RagnaveilDec 19, 20183 votes

Well, the fact he's able to stack health and do quite a lot of damage without items kinda tells you why he's resurfaced. That, and how strong his shield is.

Dr DogDec 19, 20181 votes

true, but sion hasnt really been a bad pick at any point after his rework, hes very well designed

RagnaveilDec 19, 20181 votes

I mean, they nerfed his Q to the ground and he disappeared. When they reverted the nerf, he immediately popped up again.

Dr DogDec 19, 20181 votes

ya that was in his e max days, they tried to make people max q first again... by nerfing q, genius

AlzonDec 19, 20181 votes

His shield actually isn’t that strong. What makes him good is a combination of things, primarily his passive health on W, his Q base/scaling, and the sheer duration his CC lasts for (including E slow).

Moody PDec 19, 20183 votes

sion is one of the worst tank designs to date

EschetonDec 19, 20181 votes

elaborate

Moody PDec 19, 20183 votes

Low counter play poke spam whether its E or Q max, stat checks with shield if you ever try to get aggressive while having a passive that can fuck you up hard even if you manage to take him down

there has never been a time where sion was relevant that he wasn't half AFK and still hard stonewalling almost everyone else out of the lane, regardless of whether it was top mid or support

EschetonDec 20, 20183 votes

That all just sounds like you personally find him annoying. Because he does things.

While everyone else is saying he's uniquely great because he can do things.

And what do you mean low-counter? He literally has to line up the minion-bowl. Don't line up with him. As for his Q, walk out of it. Spec movespeed if your champ lacks both it and dashes.

Moody PDec 20, 20181 votes

most of boards is low elo and plays against low elo sions, of course he seems fair at low level play

not to mention boards has a huge tank bias to begin with

MrFawknSunshineDec 19, 20182 votes

inting sion = skill expression ?

AlzonDec 19, 20182 votes

If done properly, yes. It’s technically just “bruiser Sion who likes looking for backdoor opportunities after three items.” In all other ways, it plays like your standard teamfight front line Sion.

Z3SleeperDec 20, 20182 votes

cough JUGGERNAUT cough

It's literally in his title.

RalanrDec 20, 20181 votes

Skarner has Vanguard in his title but he’s a diver.

Z3SleeperDec 20, 20181 votes

Oh that he is never knew. Guess a Vanguard is more AoE than single target.

But Sion's classification as a Juggernaut comes from his unreliable yet high damage while having high defensive stats.

I wish it meant that he had to build some AD, but that's not quite the case.

RalanrDec 20, 20181 votes

sigh

Champion titles have nothing to do with classes. Sion is a Vanguard tank because of his high AoE CC and teamfight engage potential. Something that juggernauts are meant to lack.

Z3SleeperDec 20, 20181 votes

Not necessarily. In fact, their definition leaves no mention of CC whatsoever.

Juggernauts are melee titans who relentlessly march down the opposition and devastate those foolish enough to get within their grasp. They are the only subclass who excel at both dealing and taking significant amounts of damage, but in turn they have a tough time closing in on targets due to their low range and extremely limited mobility.

Ofcourse, several aspects are often broken on a champion to champion basis to create unique champions. For instance, a Juggernaut with an initiation and AoE CC that's far from as reliable as a true Vanguard.

Reliability is the key factor that determines why most Vanguards are picked in the first place. Sion isn't picked as a tank for his reliable initiations but rather his pure undying tankiness with the potential of big AoE CC.

He disrupts teamfights just like any other Juggernaut does though, not through landing hard CC but rather through sheer persisting threat. He coerces enemy movement away from his team by setting up Decimating Smash in ways that persuade enemies away from them. He doesn't even have to land it to successfully fulfill this role.

Aatrox performs in a very similar manner. It's not so much that he's landing all his sweetspot Q's and CC'ing the enemy due to them, he's simply creating areas enemies want to avoid that coerce them into favorable positions for his team (while also landing key W's and Q's here and there). Same could be said for Urgot (or anyone else) who uses Righteous Glory to get in before bullying people around with sheer threat presence, which is basically what Sion does as well.

All-in--all I believe Sion to be a hybrid of sorts due to his above average tankiness and his higher-than-average potential of big CC but with a far greater lean towards Juggernaut due to how he executes it (alongside AD itemization being an option for a harder hitting Sion).

RalanrDec 20, 20181 votes

While I can agree Sion can work as a hybrid between the two subclasses, I believe he falls more towards being a vanguard because of his ability to close the distance and due to how unreliable his abilities are in terms of damage. All juggernauts (except Aatrox...who is weird) are much more reliable in their damage because their abilities are easier to land/have no way to really cancel. Sion's abilities imo are too unreliable to be considered a fighter of any sorts.

Also, juggernauts are no teamfight disrupters. That falls more in line with tanks.

Finally, on Riot's official subclass system, they list him as a Vanguard tank.

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

Vanguards: Alistar Amumu Mega Gnar Gragas Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Rammus Sejuani Sion Zac

Z3SleeperDec 20, 20181 votes

Well since it's a pretty close bet and Riot says Vanguard I'll go with Vanguard then.

I still think unreliability is a Juggernaut thing, not reliability. Idk if you got em mixed up or not.

Things like: Darius Q, Illaoi Tentacles setup + E, Aatrox Q's, Yorick Ghouls needing setup + E, etc.

The reliable Juggernauts are just the bad/dated design cases: Volibear and Mundo for example. Most Juggernauts have very telegraphed attacks as their core damage abilities. Which is why I think Sion belongs there due to how his Q works.

RalanrDec 21, 20181 votes

All of the abilities you’ve mentioned are more reliable than Sion’s Q by nature of not being able to stop.

MrFawknSunshineDec 19, 20181 votes

i think the reason sion does well is he gets to get FREE HP cuz of W passive and it allows him to build other items that will synergize with the HP such as item 3748 . also by getting HP from W he is allowed to get other tank items that my not have HP on them and still be ok. and there is his passive. he dont get punished as hard for dying due to it. if you kill him he could get a kill in return, get cs , be a pain in a team fight during passive still, etc.

his W scales with its own passive. making him tankier and get to trade with out taking damage. this alone allows him to build damage and be a tank cuz he dont have to worry about stacking armor/mr cuz his SHIELD protects him so much.

his E is a slow and reduces armor allowing him to do more physical damage to his target. and his Q is an aoe slow/knock up that has a horrible bugged hit box.

KaìjuDec 20, 20181 votes

Soon and Cho are both fairly good tanks because they have AOE hard CC that isn't reliable. Sion can be dodged and interrupted and Cho has a really long cast time and a circle rather than a long and somewhat wide box. They both also have some nice utility, Cho has a silence and Sion has a slow/armor reduction. And finally they both have some guaranteed power, Sion in his shield/dmg and stacking health, Cho with his enhanced autos and R/stacking health.

Tanks need to have more powerful but situational/avoidable hard CC. Things like Maokai Q and Poppy E are good examples I think because Mao needs to get closer to use it rather than just poking and Poppy needs terrain to make it really stick. The issue is some champions end up too reliable. I love Maokai but his W into Q is super reliable which would be more fair if he didn't heal so much, his mana costs can make W Q spam taxing in a long fight.

Malphite, Amumu, Voli, and other tanks need stronger but harder to hit CC.