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@Balance Team: Yasuo is already too good against mages; no need to buff him

DeadUnborn··3 votes·250 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/08/811-pbe-update.html

So Riot decided they want to shift Yasuo from Top Lane to mid, where they think he is more healthy. This is fine and could be addressed whenever he gets his kit rework. however, as you can see above, Riot is trying to mess with Yasuo's MR to make him specialized against mages. Thing is, Yasuo's current kit is already incredibly good against most AP mid laners (just check the win rates), he doesn't need to be buffed to play against mages, what he needs is a kit rework so people don't perma ban him.

This is a case of "it is broken so we are giving it something else to be fixed instead of actually fixing what is broken on the champ (i:e make his top lane performance worst if that is the problem, instead of just buffing what he is already really good at). Yasuo mid loses late game because of team comps, not because of his laning phase against mages which is ridiculous

2 Comments

deadlychuck1 votes

Well, they seem to care about the champions total win rate being "fair". Rather than the champion's individual win rate being "fair" against as many champions as possible.

So say there were 3 champions in the game with equal pick rates, and champion A has a 100% win rate against champion B, but a 0% win rate against champion C (basic rock paper scissors). Then that's a well designed system, because champion A is "fair", in that he's got a 50% win rate. Despite the fact that almost none of the result was from player influence, and rather more similar to a game of chance.

Where as if you had say a 55% win rate and a 45% win rate, then you'd still have a 50% win rate on average, but more of the game is being determined by the range of the individual players' skill of the match ups.

Sadly, the closer that you get to a split of 50/50 the less different the champions need to be. There is a reason that when you play chess or other strategy games, you're generally given the same, or at least very similar, starting states and tools.

Now things get more complicated as you start get into having a full team and doubling up on champion types, but then you just need to expand the same concepts.

DeadUnborn1 votes

except it isn't, because yasuo counters around 73% of the whole mage roster (that's somewhere like 30 champions). Because each lane has a specific type of champions played on that lane, if one champion that performs well on that lane counters everything else then it becomes a must pick and thus becomes perma banned

Imagine Riot released an ADC that is great dueling against other ADCs, but is susceptible against mages and assassins. Your rock paper scissor system doesn't work because the bot lane match up would always be heavily favored by the ADC who excels against other ADCs and thus the jungler and mid laner would be pressured to pick specific champions to counter the anti-ADC adc and baby sit bot lane, skewing the match up heavily.

Specialization is only fair for tanks and juggernauts because they have to build defensively and ideally can't oppress their opponent, only mitigate their damage output. When you start building offensive champs to artificially counter other classes then it skewers the meta heavily towards the champ that predominantly counters a lane meta (ie only mages and like 3 AD assassins go mid lane, if one of those assassins/skirmishers counters the mages, then you end with a 3 champ roster for mid lane, there is no significant trade off because they can oppress their lane).

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