Boards›Gameplay

Do people actually think...

dunder kill··46 votes·3,284 views

That mages are weak right now?

9/10 of the top mid laners are mages with number 10 being Corki who literally does 80% magic damage anyway. The best "ADC" is a mage. AP Carry mage "supports" taking over bot lane. The only role they aren't viable is Jungle and even then you have Ivern.

Then you get people throwing a huge fit over the Lethality buff when it was barely a buff at all. Legit every single champ that does well with the lethality builds was doing great last patch too. And its still a straight up nerf to what flat armor pen was last season.

But hey! It "broke" certain champs right? Lets take a look at the biggest abuser MissFortune. MF is sitting on a 53.3% win rate. Now lets take a look at her winrate last patch, before the buff. 53.0%. My lord! An entire 0.3%! Obviously its a problem with the mechanic and not the champions themselves! Kha isn't overtuned, lethality is! Jayce totally was roflstomping the entire top lane meta for months straight before the lethality changes!

People throwing a fit over item 3036 ignoring BONUS armor when you still have item 3135 ignoring TOTAL Magic Resist (looking at you squishies). Someone explain to me how one is broken and not the other? Explain why LW was changed because AD casters used it to burst down squishies but Void Staff does literally the exact same thing and nobody cares? CDR getting handed out for free on every single item you could possibly want. Mage now deal constant DPS. Get a mana battery so large and regen from the passive that you actually have to try to go OOM from Morello. You still got Flat Magic Pen operating at 100% instead of the watered down Lethality system too

Explain to me how item 3165 isn't an OP stat stick thats viable on almost every mage? Yet somehow item 3147 is? One that gives a massive powerspike all at once with 112% gold efficiency from stats alone for no gold compared to an item that needs others to scale up?

This is ridiculous. There are certain champs that need to be nerfed directly, but saying the lethality buffs "broke them" or changed practically anything at all is stupid.

And anyone who thinks mages are weak right now is insane

156 Comments

Orangesilk18 votes

#NotAllMages

Now, seriously, while there are some broken mages right now, you must take into account that nerfing mage items as a whole would destroy some champions that are already in a fragile position and rely on mage itemization like: Fiddlesticks Lissandra Taliyah Vladimir Nidalee

AcidTheWarlock6 votes

SaveVlad2K17

Ahristocats18 votes

LOL TALYAH IS WEAK

HAHAHA

Erractic Eick9 votes

I think he meant more along the lines that Taliyah is a feast or famine champion that is highly dependent on specific items to succeed.

That being said, I think Taliyah is still more than capable of kicking ass in the proper hands.

Please don't destroy the poster, Master Doctor Sona x Rubick.

Ahristocats3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Erractic Eick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b3Vv75EA,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2017-02-07T22:56:02.686+0000)

That being said, I think Taliyah is still more than capable of kicking ass in the proper hands.

indeed, unlike for example vladimir where his mains have a lot of problems to make him working (might not be true with the buffs now)

taliyah is not weak, she's played as much as the other mages in high elo and her mains aren't asking for buffs

as for mages, 80% of them are fine

Succubús GF2 votes

She is probably one of the worst mages right now?

Terozu2 votes

You're kidding right? I've chunked garens going mr tank as taliyah, while behind. She's not weak at all, her skill floor is just extremely high :b

Neeko N Dime1 votes

i actually agree to a degree. and maybe im somewhat biased because i'm a mid main who strictly plays mages in that lane. i mean i see viktor after the rylai nerf and seems to struggle. nidalee is actually a depressing thing for me to see too :(. mostly because i got gifted a skin of hers around new years and find it very very VERY difficult to succeed with her vs the meta jglers atm. i mean u really have to bust your ass to get a decent first clear and still have presence around the map. u cant even do op clears with her until like 3 or 4 items from what i've seen whereas other jglers clear easily by that level or by 2nd item

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

ever thought about not jungling nidalee and just playing nidalee?

Neeko N Dime1 votes

maybe... but i hate toplane and tbh that's prob the only lane for her

Terozu1 votes

She's great mid lane...

Neeko N Dime1 votes

i actually cant really agree with that lol. the reason she works so well top is because of the brush advantage for poke imo. and now that her traps are stealthed it's a good way to cheese or for circumventing incoming ganks. midlane is too short and to actually get a kill solo can be difficult. i mean at one point in time she was mid viable maybe but ill have to respectfully disagree with you.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

build her with the control mage items instead of the arch mage items. if you're below gold it will work. idk about gold and above.

Dracocrash7 votes

I think we need to stop segregating champions by classes when talking about balance.

Some mages are very strong, while some mages are garbage. That's how it is. Just because some mages are strong, doesn't mean we can't buff the weak ones.

Agreed?

Hige1 votes

uhm which is this garbage mage you talk about? O.o I upvoted you because I agree that we cannot put every champion of a role in a basket when talking about balance, but currently pretty much every mage does insane damage on every stage of the game.... maybe... uh... Kennen? which is still incredibly good regardless

Dracocrash2 votes

fiddlesticks and lissandra come to mind, but If we think I'm sure more will come up.

Lauchmelder1 votes

Azir is weak (awaiting Shyv level rework)

And I'd actually like to see a buff on Veigar for Summoners Rift (not ARAM, please god no). Right now he's pretty much a free win.

Vekkna6 votes

Your entire premise is flawed. Mages are not weak, mage items are weak.

As a mage player myself, I'm happy to admit that I think plenty of mage/AP kits are broken in whole or part. The biggest offenders right now (imo) are Ziggs execute, Vik's overloaded Q, Ahri's passive, Vel's ult + passive interaction, Fizz ult, Leblanc's E, and literally everything about Ekko.

Oh, and mage items still suck. You specifically compared LDR and Void Staff, which basically negates your entire argument. LDR is better, full stop. The higher % bonus pen is slightly worse in a vacuum; so what? LDR is essentially a Void Staff with the Abyssal passive tacked on just because, and LDR gives partial passives on each component. It's stronger when finished, and exponentially stronger before it's finished.

You can't really compare item 3147 to a mage item because Riot would never create an item that broken for mages. Gold for gold, an AP Duskblade would have 100 AP and 10 mpen with no change to passives. The closest comparison would be Luden's with 10 mpen and a built-in idiot-proof Oracle's. Now tell me with a straight face that the boards wouldn't lose their shit over an item like that.

dunder kill2 votes

In what world are you living that LDR is better than Void?

Vekkna4 votes

Do math and reading cause you physical pain or something?

Eedat2 votes

Did the math. You should try it

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/b3Vv75EA-do-people-actually-think?comment=0006000000000000

dunder kill2 votes

You shouldn't have even bothered. They dont care even when you mathematically prove them wrong.

Vekkna4 votes

The +15% phys damage would work out so that you do do SLIGHTLY increased damage vs the tank

This agrees with me, not you.

When you add flat pen on top of it, LDR pulls way ahead with its +15% damage.

How are you people this stupid?

SchmidttyGames4 votes

Mages are about where they should be overall. Either they blow you up or they get blown up.

Lethality is over-tuned at the moment to the point where, at 3 items, you're dealing true damage to non-tanks. Mages can't do this.

Eedat6 votes

Implying a 3 item mage doesnt kill squishies on one combo anyway xD

I know, I know. "Mages dont deal DPS" which first off greatly depends on the champ. Some do amazing DPS. And the rest do decent DPS now that they've shoved 40% CDR onto pretty much every build you could want

MagicFlyingLlama7 votes

"WTF ZYRA OP DoeS MorE DamaGe hAn MiD LA NER WT F NeRf ThIs"

Welcome to season 7.

Elikain3 votes

No she does not. Play her on mid and compare your damage numbers with your support Zyra damage. How can more gold spent on bigger AP items have an opposite effect to her damage output, compared to her AP compensation items for supports?

If your argument is really "a mage nowadays fares better on bot than on mid", then it's not because true mage items are garbage. It's likely that those mages can't have a good mid lane experience because their skills are clearly telegraphed and can be avoided by an average player. Their mid interest drops and they start surfacing on bot lane because their damage is still relevant and can contribute in other ways. But this "switch" isn't ideal because this means that particular mage might have some gameplay issues that prevents them from being played on their primary position.

Eedat3 votes

No she does not.

Yeah she does.

Fun fact: Support Zyra averages about as much damage per game as Mid Cassiopeia Leblanc Syndra Azir Fizz Zed Orianna Lissandra Ryze Anivia

Elikain1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah she does.

Fun fact: Support Zyra averages about as much damage per game as Mid Cassiopeia Leblanc Syndra Azir Fizz Zed Orianna Lissandra Ryze Anivia

No, she does not. If you're looking strictly from the numbers perspective, support Zyra can poke a lot more than mid Zyra can. But mid Zyra, if she "averages" the same damage as support Zyra, it's because she does a lot more burst damage with a lot less poke.

If mid Zyra is stronger 2x than support Zyra, support Zyra has to spam + hit her spells 2x more than the mid Zyra. That's how you manage average their damage out. Support Zyra does not do more damage than a mid Zyra because access to higher amounts of AP equals to more spell damage. Translate the spell frequency from a support position to mid as Zyra and you have a lot stronger mage than a support.

resumed3 votes

hi zyra is my 2nd most played champion

yes she does

MagicFlyingLlama5 votes

The fact that was written in idiotlock with a highly sarcastic comment did not tip you off?

RIP humanity.

Elikain1 votes

Hard to detect sarcasm over the comment section. if you want to make it obvious, put /s at the end and we can all know for sure what you meant by that.

MagicFlyingLlama5 votes

It should be obvious. It is to most people.

I just forget this forum is mostly populated by a generation that has no idea what sarcasm is, online or offline.

Elikain1 votes

Considering that you're writing in Gameplay forums, there's no such thing as sarcasm in here. It's all about the serious business and dick measuring contests.

Papa Andrei2 votes

If you can't tell retard speech = sarcasm online you shouldn't be debating with people

Vekkna4 votes

The difference is that you can actually counterbuild a mage.

If you're AD, you can do it by accident.

Ahristocats1 votes

void staff removes more mr than last whisper, that is a great thing isn't it

Vekkna1 votes

Yeah, 35% is clearly too strong. It should be nerfed down to Black Cleaver's 30% shred...that benefits your entire team.

I really hope they "nerf" AP items to AD levels. It's only fair.

Ahristocats1 votes

who cares about black cleaver? it's used on melees mostly not ranged and it's being nerfed on pbe for the few ranged champions that use it+skirmishers

so the only champions using it are going to be juggernauts that are slow+immobile, good lucking getting 6 stacks of bc on ranged mages

lmfao

Vekkna1 votes

TIL:

500 MS is slow.

Fiora, Wukong, and Lee are immobile juggernauts.

Illaoi and Jayce have no range.

Ahristocats1 votes

read above

dunder kill5 votes

I'll be sure to remember that when Syndra with item 3165 item 3089 item 3285 item 3020 does enough damage in a single combo to kill me twice

SchmidttyGames2 votes

Like I said, either they blow you up, or you blow them up. There is no middle ground after laning phase with most mages. Once you catch them out, down they go. Which means that they do have their weaknesses. Ask Tyndamere how much he cares about mages. He is the mage killer, after all. If you're having a problem with them, give him a try.

4 Auto Attacks and they'll die. They can't kill you because Tyndamere.

Enlegacy5 votes

A burst mage who can deal a lot of damage? Who knew.

Golden Tager X8 votes

Closer to a burst mage that hits harder than rengar, but gets to do it safely.

Succubús GF3 votes

But yet rengar can build tanky and gets permanent ad with stacks? Wow good job comparing an assassin to a burst mage

zaire905 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b3Vv75EA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-07T20:19:41.903+0000)

Mages are about where they should be overall. Either they blow you up or they get blown up.

Lethality is over-tuned at the moment to the point where, at 3 items, you're dealing true damage to non-tanks. Mages can't do this.

i kinda remember assassins being able to do that and everyone had a problem with that

DKM Bismarck1 votes

3 items = true damage, the three lethality items cost you 9.2k gold, and you will slot boots somewhere in there, now lets take Talon who goes for the cheapest boots. Mobi's, Ionian or Swifties, you're looking at 10.1k gold before they do "true damage" to a squishy. So I think that's fair.

dunder kill3 votes

3 items = true damage

Come on.

Lets look at a carry with no MR built. Level 18 Cait has 30 base MR. Void brings that down to 19.5. Sorc boots brings that down to 4.5. Magic Pen reds brings that down to -3.5

Congrats. True damage with two items totaling 3750. And thats not more OP how?

For comparison, that same exact cait with no armor items has 82.4 armor at level 18. Legitimately almost TRIPLE

Derfel3 votes

Rather than post vague nonsense, why don't you actually list the mages that are so broken.

Apparently the champ that builds full AD but does magic damage thanks to his passive is now a mage because????? What amazing analysis.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by dunder kill

A huge problem with this board
Gameplay117 comments
251
votes
Reminder that whatever team gets first tower has a 73% win rate
Gameplay187 comments
240
votes
Brand support does way too much damage
Gameplay232 comments
189
votes
These changes reek of #LC$
Gameplay83 comments
183
votes
How is this acceptable?
Gameplay83 comments
163
votes
"I know there are server issues and I queued up for 4 games anyway"
Memes & Games32 comments
146
votes