I think that once Kha and Rengo get nerfed...

dunder kill·Feb 14, 2017·29 votes·2,017 views

is going to be an issue again.

He's back to building 3 items ( ) and one-shotting people from 4.5 seconds of invisibility.

Except now he has a spell shield coming out of stealth which makes dealing with it even more difficult

Honestly this would be more of an issue if he wasn't dwarfed by Kha and Rengar being blatantly overtuned. Once these two get nerfed he's going to be back to exactly what he was a few patches ago except in AD form.

He's back to over a 55% win rate already:

https://na.op.gg/champion/shaco/statistics/jungle

The low sample sizes for particular builds isn't enough to draw reasonable conclusions though

Will be curious to see what happens after the other two get nerfed

27 Comments

RalanrFeb 14, 201718 votes

"Shaco got gutted"

Thankfully he still works well.

Big LincolnFeb 14, 201721 votes

"Shaco becomes broken when he can use broken items"

and nothing has changed

dunder killFeb 14, 20172 votes

Honestly they really just need to add a way of reasonably dealing with his invisibility. Invisibility in general for that matter.

Sweepers have too low of an uptime to cooldown to be a reasonable counter

RalanrFeb 14, 20171 votes

Well the reason why invisibility is so hard to counter is that it supposedly makes the champions with invisibility easier to balance around it.

It feels like a core strength rather than just an add on after one too many nerfs.

SpoofghoulFeb 14, 20172 votes

the problem with this though is that most of them are assassins or otherwise really bursty/high damage

i wouldn't know where to balance these champions outside of nerfing damage since that is like 90% of their kits anyway

and if they can't do their oneshots anymore everyone stops playing them and moves on to the next thing, not that i would have a problem with that but still.

the only other option is to make them more squishy?

Fondling GemsFeb 15, 20171 votes

It is also possible to slow down their burst, make them more predictable and so on.

Asayake 5150glowFeb 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Honestly they really just need to add a way of reasonably dealing with his invisibility. Invisibility in general for that matter.

Sweepers have too low of an uptime to cooldown to be a reasonable counter

Or, you know, remove his complete 100% super safe anything (invading, scouting, warding, etc) as long as you can't literally stop him from pressing Q.

Shaco isn't gonna use his Q when scouting. That means it's gonna be up. Which means you can't do shit against him.

Rengar Top LaneFeb 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Honestly they really just need to add a way of reasonably dealing with his invisibility. Invisibility in general for that matter.

Sweepers have too low of an uptime to cooldown to be a reasonable counter

I honestly would like the pink ward to be able to see invisible champs or at least make another ward with higher price.

Pendergast891Feb 15, 20173 votes

What they didn't know is that they gutted his clone

Tyrone LannisterFeb 14, 20173 votes

Its hecarim thats a serious problem

dunder killFeb 14, 20175 votes

Well Hecarim can also be a problem. That doesn't mean others can't be a problem as well

ArakadiaFeb 15, 20172 votes

I swear. People don't get what you just said lol. Its either X or Y, but not both.

SweedishGunnerFeb 15, 20171 votes

Honestly don't see it that much. He needs a lot of gold early if he wants triforce and he's pretty easy to solo out when he dives in. He also has a somewhat iffy early clear.

MoetaroFeb 14, 20172 votes

Nah, what's broken AF is Vi. She was and she's still totally broken. Any other junler is a waste.

Chembaron YamadaFeb 15, 20174 votes

The last nerf actually put her in a good place. Playrate, winrate and banrate all went down and seem in a really balanced state right now.

JhamSleazFeb 15, 20172 votes

Complain about shaco all you want. But it does take skill to win a game with a squishy jungler in a meta where it is likely to see 2-3 tanks on a team. You have to go in at the perfect time late game or you will be absolutely deleted.

Unlucky47Feb 14, 20171 votes

"after the other two get nerfed"

LOL riot took off the smallest damage on khazix's q so he still jumps around one shotting multiple people. From their point of view, khaz and rengar are fine now because they LOOKED at them so I doubt they'll be touched for several patches. If that was the case, vi and hec would have been touched a long ass time ago.

dunder killFeb 14, 20176 votes

Rengo is getting the QSS taken off his W which is a massive nerf. Anyway, one champion being broken doesn't mean another one cant be as well

Unlucky47Feb 14, 20171 votes

Didn't say that he wouldnt be broken but he's never going to be fixed at this rate. Rengar and khazix are going to be in the spotlight for a while and shaco might just fly under the radar unless his winrate gets any higher then maybe they'll do something. Either way the jungle is the main problem here and they need to fix that before doing anything else.

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 15, 20171 votes

Can't tell how many games i lost because my team left kha open after the "nerf". 0,2 BONUS ad ratio. Wow. Well and a bit more cooldown and Q which has a low cooldown anyways on top of the refund. I just don't get why riot over the years put every power of k6 into a point and click undodgeable ability instead of giving power into his W and E. So he actually has to hit a rotation to kill someone off.

Unlucky47Feb 15, 20171 votes

they dont need to transfer damage anywhere. what they need is to just flat out nerf him. I don't know what they were thinking putting his q on a 2 second cooldown on isolated targets but for whatever reason, I feel like it never matters. I could be running back to my minion wave and not be isolated and still lose 2/3 of my health.

Spaceman5pffFeb 14, 20171 votes

When shaco was crazy (post rework) it was due to the AP ratio on his Q + its ability to proc runic echoes + lich bane.

He just built loads of extra AP ratios with those and gunblade and used THEM to burst you.

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 15, 20171 votes

His AD isn't less obnoxious. Especially considering i saw enough sunfire cape, titanic hydra shacos still bursting squishies. On top of his invis, clone mechanic you can't distinguish from the original anymore etc.

JoeMGFeb 15, 20171 votes

NOOOO don't mess with my Shaco again!

Actually I agree with the fact that it's the lethality items that are really helping champs outclass others right now. But a rioter did say Shaco was on the list for a potential VGU :/ and with the tank class update coming it might help put these lethality abusers in their place.

TwidgetronFeb 15, 20171 votes

I want nothing more than Shaco's update to be 100% reverted. I've never had as much fun in this game as old AP Shaco Support/Top; I was devastated with his new rework. He just wasn't fun for me anymore and seemed to implement even MORE toxic gameplay than before.

sobi999Feb 15, 20171 votes

Having stealth/invisibility on show a low CD is always going to be cancerous. It means the opponent has no counterplay if the enemy is able to burst them down straight after coming out of stealth/invisibility. Teemo has probably the most balanced invisibility due to him staying in one place to trigger it.