"But we also want you to gut the new support itemization while we complain about autofill because nobody plays support"
"Also, damage creep is ridiculous at this point. Everyone just gets blown up in under a second....................but also gut these heals and shields that prevent that"
-The boards in a nutshell right now
Mecha MaIphite82 votesIt's almost like different people have different opinions.
IcyPepper4 votesAgreed.
B1naryB0t18 votesNo. All internet forums are their own monolith. One opinion, all else is shunned.
500000000000000030 votesWe unite under the banner of "omg yasou op"
Velzard of Koz13 votesTen commandments of Boards
Malicious Metal4 votesHides 
MaskedHeroman1 votesaren't you a morde main though?
Malicious Metal2 votesYeah but she's my main Jungler together with Skarner.
My Morde jungle, well, let's say my team mates don't really approve of that.
AgeOfTheMage1 voteswhat?!?!? morde jg is the best! his ganks arent the GREATEST but he is a great jger! srsly, why would people hate on that
Ariel the Cruel1 votes". . .why would people hate on that?"
". . .his ganks aren't the GREATEST. . ."
You answered your own question.
It is the jungler's job to win every lane, secure every dragon/Baron (nobody cars about Harold ;p ), never steal kills / CS / objective last-hits, and counter-jungle. SIMULTANEOUSLY. They must also provide all the team's damage, CC, peel, engage, tank, and utility.
If a champion is sub-par in any of these categories, it can not jungle. And you should insta-ban anyone who attempts to play said champion in the jungle.
Fortunately, our Lord and Savior, 
, does everything excellently. And history has proven there is no chance of Riot ever letting him escape the meta.
RainbowIcee2 votesYou forgot evelynn. Even if shes not that strong... People hate her because control wards are "too expensive"
Sraeg20137 votesYou do realize Control Wards have much lower detection range and aren't remotely as useful against Evelynn as Pink Wards were?
RainbowIcee1 votesit's enough to cover the river area and see her coming though. She is very squishy and vulnerable early game as must champs. I've played eve quite a lot ( not the most but enough ) to say that once i'm seen i have to turn back and find a way to break the pink/control ward. However i've dealt with competent players using eve, i can't say for the ones that are still learning the game and feel evelynn is over powered because they're still getting the hang of how useful the vision game is. Champions like Lee sin, Vi and hecarim though were even if you see them and you're over extending it can quite possibly be too late anyways are champs were i'd say you need an alternate strategy but not eve, just spot her and merk her if you're in range.
A Basic Island2 votesmost likes = majority opinion dont you know facebook
IcyPepper36 votesWe're not a hive-mind entity that's bipolar, we're a bunch of people who have different opinions. Not every believes in the damage creep, not everyone believes the heals and shields are OP.
We're a bunch of individuals, not a singular entity :V
AMYS GRAVE7 votesNot every believes in the damage creep, not everyone believes the heals and shields are OP.
I would just like to point out, that both can be true here. We wouldn't need such strong heals and shields if we weren't up against such strong damage. One might naively think that these cancel each other out but its only champion damage that has increased, while minion damage and turret damage go unchanged, and the damage and shields has only increased on champions who use the particular itemization changes/ mastery changes/ etc... well.
IcyPepper8 votesI guess.
It's really up to the individual on what they think. I can't speak for everyone, that would be kind of ironic.
edit: geez, am I not that popular on this board?
420 grams4 votesWe are all one with each other and the universe
WoonStruck7 votesThere's is an absurd amount of damage creep, which prevents most tanks/bruisers from functioning properly in any meta that doesn't revolve around them.
Heals/shields are also currently overpowered because they take away agency from the people facing them. They invalidate all-in champs, which is a huge problem because there's no way to counter-act them and over half the champions in the game rely on all-in.
Even if GW was 50% (its weaker than that, fyi), Redemption still has around a 500 HP heal late game in many cases, currently. Besides, making GW mandatory on every team is not the answer.
Shields have no way to interact with them outside of damage, making them very feast/famine. Locket's currently massive shield is absolutely overpowered atm.
Supports obviously shouldn't be the weakest link. Heals/shields or just peeling aren't the only way to support. In many games, supports can be initiators, debuffers, roamers, pushers (so the carry can get to objectives quicker), etc.
#**In League supports are low-income babysitters, and that's what needs to change. **
HazyCloud73 votesHeals/shields are also currently overpowered because they take away agency from the people facing them. They invalidate all-in champs, which is a huge problem because there's no way to counter-act them and over half the champions in the game rely on all-in.
Agree 100%. People can believe in damage creep while simultaneously recognizing shields/healing is out of control. The two are not mutually exclusive, and I've yet to see any non support player actually argue redemption is a well balanced item.
Elikain1 votesI'd argue that judging by upvotes alone, you really let the shitty part of the community always get to appear as the face and voice of everyone.
IcyPepper1 votesI wouldn't say always. Quite a few times threads with well-constructed and non-shitty ideas get upvoted nicely.
As a population, we are fickle, but even the vocal "face" changes from time to time. If you're referring to "circlejerking," well that's an issue that's found in almost every site that involves upvoting/likes and is subject to response bias.
Baron Perenolde9 votesI am an advocate of seeing Redemption nerfed. That said, there better be damage nerfs along with it, because holy hell is there just way too much of it right now. Everybody and their mothers just crap out damage and it's honestly ridiculous.
HazyCloud71 votesKeystones are a big part of that
xWaters8 votesI feel impactful as support. Assassins should learn to play around the cool downs of shields, wait for locket or face to pop, etc before going in like its a giant shitfest. So much complaint about shields now, if you gut shields and heals you gut supports because then no one will every want to touch support.
Rysa4 votesI don't think the heal and shields from Locket and Redemption need gutting, just some toning down, because those get rediculous late game. I mean, yea, playing around shields is important. But late game, you get a 600+ shield, a crazy heal that takes a couple seconds to happen (That also does a fair bit of True Damage and can be used from the dead). Now, Locket has a 90 second CD, and Redemption a 120 second CD. With the Ruby Sightstone, that lowers the CD by 20%. Also, late game, death timers are rather long, lets say 45+ Seconds. So that means that for half the CD, the assassin that went in on you is dead. Add another 20 seconds, because you might have backed after getting an objective. Then, the longer you delay fighting, the closer your item CD's get, which eventually means that they are off CD. I know Assassins can catch you off guard, but lets just say that they don't. That means that if your Team fights late game are more than 2 minutes apart, your shield and heal are always going to be off CD. Now, since you got those items, you are probably a support, so add whatever Heal/Shield/CC you have onto that. Congrats! You can effectively make an assassin useless if you know how to shield and heal.
Don't you think that that's a little bit too strong? I mean, if you want me to, I can do calculations to figure all this shit out, or find a post that did the calculations.
cTrix5 votesMaybe they should come up with actual solutions to that instead of these fucking hack jobs. Have you considered that smartass?
Big Lincoln4 votesmaking them feel better to play =/= brainlessly shutting down any and all attempts to kill their carry
riot reworks assassins because nobody likes getting popped in ~1 second, but supports get buffed to do the exact opposite and keep their ADC alive no matter how well the assassin actually outplays them
also maybe if you want the support role to feel better you should take a look at the champions. maybe we should have more to choose from than who shields, heals, or CCs the best, huh?
Tis a nice day6 votesOther than shielding
, blocking
, healing 
, tanking
, CC'ing
, grabbing
, damaging
, lantern-ing 
, poking
, roaming
, trolling
...
what else is there left?
I guess assassinating isn't quite something supports have covered, but how would you make such a character?
Big Lincoln2 voteslux is not a support
what else is there left
debuffs.
your post does nothing at all. supports are heals, shields, and cc. their diversity is artificial; they only replace one another when one of them is better at doing one or two or all of those things
coreychichi10 votesYour post does nothing because anything can be made to sound overly simple if stated in the trivial way you've put it. "mids are just damage herp derp". Also if you think Zyra and karma are top picks because of their respective cc/shields you're an idiot. It's part of their kit but not even close to why they are contested atm.
"debuffs" ^^ what like you're not bitching about exhaust enough already?
Lastly, "brainlessly shutting down any and all attempts to kill their carry". Aside from vision that's what the role is about, especially early to mid game. If you have that much of a problem with supports fucking up your attempts to delete a carry you might as well just argue for the removal of the role, because that aspect of it isn't going anywhere.
Extvia3 votesYour post does nothing because anything can be made to sound overly simple if stated in the trivial way you've put it. "mids are just damage herp derp". Also if you think Zyra and karma are top picks because of their respective cc/shields you're an idiot. It's part of their kit but not even close to why they are contested atm.
"debuffs" ^^ what like you're not bitching about exhaust enough already?
Lastly, "brainlessly shutting down any and all attempts to kill their carry". Aside from vision that's what the role is about, especially early to mid game. If you have that much of a problem with supports fucking up your attempts to delete a carry you might as well just argue for the removal of the role, because that aspect of it isn't going anywhere.
Yeah but assassins are gonna cry that their instant 1 second kills don't happen anymore and are actually exposed to counterplay.
zaire901 votesYeah but assassins are gonna cry that their instant 1 second kills don't happen anymore and are actually exposed to counterplay.
unless your name is rengar or khazix its already like that
Verdade5 votes
desintegrating
Pale Pirate4 votesbut also gut these heals and shields that prevent that
Well, these are the assassin mains. Now that other champs have better burst than assassins, the only thing assassins have is mobility, presumably to reach the backline. But what use is that if the backline still kills you?
jama6553 votesi would play more supp if i could trust flex que people but i cant so i wont
Adriqnohee3 votesif they want supports to be meaningful, give them a way of making money like the other 8 people in the game, there is absolutely no way each team needs to have a guy that is both behind on gold and experience.
Leetri1 votesThe problem is, how do you do that? If gold generating items are too strong, everyone will buy them. Unlike the Smite items, you can't lock it behind a Summoner Spell either. There's only 4 sources of income on the map and 5 players, so someone has to gain less gold than everyone else. Turns out, supports don't need as much gold as other roles and that's why the meta became the way it is. The only way I can think of that's not abusable by others is to scale up the passive gold and XP for players that are a fair bit behind the team average. They'd still be behind, but not by AS much.
Adriqnohee1 votesThat's why they have to put a fifth way of making gold into the game, and then balance the characters accordingly, its impossible to balance supports the way they are right now, because the best supports are characters filled with utility: or with so much raw damage that they don't even need items to murder someone: 
, thus they have to be balanced around not receiving gold (in a game where gold is one of the most important things) so as to not turn into absolute monsters that obliterate the competition (see mid before the nerfs). And then the lack of money creates another problem, unless riot wants them to spend the entire match with only two items, (Do I even have to mention the time when they would fill their inventory with wards and nothing else?) or they get cheap items, that are either useless and no one wants 
but since they have no other options they have to take it , or useful but since they are also cheap everyone else will abuse them: 
. I can't believe someone tough it was a good idea to only make 4 ways of getting gold when both teams have 5 people in them, specially said gold is essential in making your character stronger.
Elikain3 votesBoards: "Riot, remove air now!" Riot: "But you'll die without it." Boards: "We know better what we need, do it!" Riot removes air, people dropping like flies Boards: "We can't fucking live without air, Riot!"
Noblewind1 votesYour comment is perfect
Witch of Babylon1 votesthis reminds me of taliyah
Daemonette2 votesMore like, "We want the support role to feel more impactful so will put in autofill."
SlaktarTasken2 votesIf damage creep wasn't so ridiculous, support items wouldn't need to be either. All stats are relative.
VoraciousX1 votesI like how supports were good BEFORE all these items with +10% HEAL AND SHIELD POWER that work with WINDSPEAKER'S which gives even more heal and shield power and extra effects, and things that deal AOE heals AND TRUE DAMAGE in the same breath, but because supports think 2-3k HP shields aren't overpowered, everyone just wants to "gut them". Every single class update so far, items have been given to buff supports, with one or two items to buff the actual class the update was for, the supports got the same amount, and it isn't even their class updates yet. Almost all mages LOST Athene's Unholy Grail, and all kinds of supports gained it for themselves.
Erockandroll2 votesI like how supports were good BEFORE all these items with +10% HEAL AND SHIELD POWER that work with WINDSPEAKER'S which gives even more heal and shield power and extra effects, and things that deal AOE heals AND TRUE DAMAGE in the same breath, but because supports think 2-3k HP shields aren't overpowered, everyone just wants to "gut them". Every single class update so far, items have been given to buff supports, with one or two items to buff the actual class the update was for, the supports got the same amount, and it isn't even their class updates yet. Almost all mages LOST Athene's Unholy Grail, and all kinds of supports gained it for themselves.
not even the support update. Your probably thinking too broadly. Riot has no reason not to try and help supports. (especially when people complain that supports have no power) And given that enchanters are well served by this itemization, (even if over tuned) means that their support update will focus other supports. (my guess would be pick style supports like Blitz, thresh, Leona, etc)
Also, many of those champs could already get those 2-3k shields, they would just need a ton of AP to do it. Which doesn't really work for supports since a) high AP items are often out of a supports budget. and b) you can't just increase the ratios, without those champs becoming problematic in the mid lane.
So we gut ADC while putting support on par. High utility 0 damage. This way supports feel like they're more than poke.exe and marksmen actually NEED their supports.
That's for the most part been true regardless of power, even now, ADC's will complain about needing constant protection from their support. (I don't actually think that's good for the role though. No one likes being the ADC's B*tch) But that in mind, that is for the most part, an arms race. The ADC really only need's their support, because the enemy has theirs. (Fighting 1v2 isn't fun or fair, nothing to do with the support as a role, it's just unfun being outnumbered.)
VoraciousX1 votesnot even the support update. Your probably thinking too broadly. Riot has no reason not to try and help supports. (especially when people complain that supports have no power) And given that enchanters are well served by this itemization, (even if over tuned) means that their support update will focus other supports. (my guess would be pick style supports like Blitz, thresh, Leona, etc)
Also, many of those champs could already get those 2-3k shields, they would just need a ton of AP to do it. Which doesn't really work for supports since a) high AP items are often out of a supports budget. and b) you can't just increase the ratios, without those champs becoming problematic in the mid lane.
That's for the most part been true regardless of power, even now, ADC's will complain about needing constant protection from their support. (I don't actually think that's good for the role though. No one likes being the ADC's B*tch) But that in mind, that is for the most part, an arms race. The ADC really only need's their support, because the enemy has theirs. (Fighting 1v2 isn't fun or fair, nothing to do with the support as a role, it's just unfun being outnumbered.)
I didn't say it was the SUPPORT update, I said they gave supports all these itemization changes in the same patch as an important OTHER class update, in EVERY class update. Why does support get enhanced in an update for ANOTHER class, while that class usually LOSES items. Supports seem, to usually get MORE items than the class that's being updated. Mages LOST Athenes TO SUPPORTS in their own class update, how does that make sense? If you want to buff support's itemization, you should do it in a support class update, not some other class, and even before all of these itemization changes supports were already really good.
If they want to make supports more attractive, they could always give League 4 lanes, and let supports duke it out, personally I think it'd be funny and fun to have supports fighting each other solo, as well as making League much more open to experimentation.
