Can we just talk about Tryndramere for a second?

SaltyToplaneGoat··61 votes·3,372 views

I'll be completly honest here: you could take Tryndra's kit and strap the title "Outdated piece of shit that should have never been released and should have been reworked AGES ago" on it. You thought Teemo was frustrating? At least you have that sweet feeling of relief when you finally kill that satanic incarnate. But with that guy? No, fuck it.

You can have 5k effective hitpoints, 200 armor, a randuins against the crits - it does not matter, you die against a glass cannon build in 3 seconds that for some fucked up reason has a FIVE SECOND INVINCIBILITY on it - not to forget the slow and the AD reducer so you can forget trading OR escaping in the first place.

But let's just try to be objective here and figure out just why this guy needs a rework:

1.) Crit dependence + plus the first half of the game is pretty much "either I'm lucky or get crits and stomp you despite having no skill andI let luck decide the lane" or "I do not get crits but still am relevant" because 2.) He gets rewarded for playing PvE 75% of the game. Wasn't there a major design headline somewhen in the past? "MEANINGFUL INTERACTION"? Well, guess what, this champ is the complete antithesis of it. Either he completly AVOIDS all kind of interaction (not fed) or, when fed, denies all interaction apart from murdering you because of a: 3.) Complete lack of effective counterplay. Yepp, kiting sounds nice and all, but against a spammable, walljumping gapcloser AND a unavoidable slow that's SUCH a good idea, no? And you want to trade? Enjoy your reduced AD AND a time window of 5 seconds where you cannot kill him but he can surely kill you five times over.

You know, I can get people getting mad when a Riven kills them. But hey, at least that Riven player invested some kind of mechanical skill into that - meanwhile the Tryndramere player just slams his active items and rightclicks you to death - while you can do nothing apart form putting his ultimate on cooldown. Feels completly fair, no? Also with the armor nerfs buying item against that seems more like a joke to me.

I honestly don't give a shit if he's strong or weak in pro play, LCS or whatever: he's just frustrating as fuck to play against. I personally dodge every game with a Tryndramere by now - not because I think we would lose 100%, but simply because this champion's presence in a game literally sucks all fun out of the match. I would ban him, but sadly the balance team STILL has not nerfed sated devourer and too much shit is OP atm to throw a ban on Tryndramere.

Rework that guy already - he's a standing monument on how you can screw up a melee champion design.

EDIT: I am impressed: 5 seconds and there is a downvote. Apparently Tryndra players react sensitive to someone even TALKS abotu touching their precious freeElo...

53 Comments

Javazon23 votes

You should try Tyrndamere out yourself. You might be surprised it's not as easy as it looks. Honestly if anyone ever picks Nasus or Malp into tyrnd it's pretty much guaranteed loss for tyrnd. Personally, I don't play him anymore. It's harder than it looks to make this champion work. If you're behind in lane you just get zoned super hard, and any tank can build armor+thorn and win 1v1's while also being a better teamfighter. It's just not worth the effort. Just my thoughts. Not here for a full debate, your mind is made up.

Tonakide4 votes

I don't see how Tryndamere is hard to play.

Build a glass cannon build with AD, Crit, and some AS and auto attack them down. The slow is annoying as all hell especially because of it's lengthiness and even once you flash over that jungle wall, he's going to spin over the damn thing and drain you more. Then your teammates arrive and help you drain him down but they aren't getting a break from his rein of terror, he's going to make them all turn tail and run too.

Then you finally manage to drain him down and you're thinking "Thank god I finally get to kill this hell raiser" His ult screws you over, and you already burned your flash.

And yes I know I'm not a very experienced player, but it's an opinion.

JedenVojak2 votes

Play him then. Play him for 20 games.

Then you can say how easy he is to play.

MaximumNinja173 votes

I have he isn't very hard. I just rushed a shiv and would crit like every aa . The only times i died was when i would tower dive for a kill in a 3v1 or other stupid things . As long as you dont do stupid shit tryn is decent . And unless your playing some one who benefits from just building armor Malphite Rammus then your gonna have a bad time. Also he wasnt even very fun to play . Check your check list.

  1. Do you have full rage? 2 . Right click someone.
  2. GG weather a win or loss this is all he does. At least adcs need good positioning , he just spins toward the enemy
Javazon1 votes

I hear what you're saying. And I agree he's not necessarily hard to play. He's certainly not mechanically intensive.

It's more about tyrndamere's over-all game strategy required as a splitpusher. That can make things really difficult for him, and sometimes really easy. Easy when facing a team where no one can 1v1 you. Difficult when the enemy has a tank that can shut you down anywhere and also rock a solid 5v5 and tp back toplane to stop your push. A good player can certainly punish someone for picking Tryndamere.

Crett17 votes

It really isn't meaningful that a champion is difficult to play when it's awful to play against them. Riven isn't easy to play, and neither is Leblanc (heck, her winrate is in the gutter right now), but we hate them all the same

Healthy gameplay has nothing to do with making a toxic design difficult to play.

warsaberso3 votes

The thing is, Trondermeer isn't really op or broken, but his kit is just so boring and linear. he requires so damn little interaction. All you need to know to play him is: press Q to heal; press W in trades and when chasing; use E the same way as flash; press R to not die. Strategically, if you get ahead, just use a glass cannon build because your ult makes you a bruiser anyway and roam and get kills around the map. If you get behind, just splitpush top lane all day and escape with E and R if needed.

Balmor01 votes

"Hard" i can't cs because i eat all the skill shots "Hard" coz i didn't get lucky crits "Hard" they both a one armor item gg we lose now. XD

WolfBV1 votes

{quoted}

You should try Tyrndamere out yourself. You might be surprised it's not as easy as it looks. Honestly if anyone ever picks Nasus or Malp into tyrnd it's pretty much guaranteed loss for tyrnd. Personally, I don't play him anymore. It's harder than it looks to make this champion work. If you're behind in lane you just get zoned super hard, and any tank can build armor+thorn and win 1v1's while also being a better teamfighter. It's just not worth the effort. Just my thoughts. Not here for a full debate, your mind is made up.

Don't forget how sad Quinn makes Tryndamere.

Sorion19 votes

I'd like to introduce you to Poppy. 8 second invincibility and immunity to CC, (By comparison, Tryndamere still takes damage up to 1HP during his ult.) Hard CC stun/gap closer, massive damage output with her Q, and 50% damage reduction scaling through her passive. Let's not forget she has another passive + active that gives her increased movement speed. Yes, if Tryndamere is fucked up, Poppy can do much worse.

I'll put it like this. Unless the Poppy is bad, which I do concede they generally are because people rarely try old, unupdated champions, the Poppy will usually be a force to be reckoned with. It's been a long time now, since I last saw a Poppy that didn't end up heavily positive, and was able to 3-4 v 1 our team, by ulting the support and just going to town on us for literally 8 seconds. God forbid her team was with her, because we could be FORCED to retreat until the ult ran out or our team would begin dying to her 1 by 1.

SaltyToplaneGoat21 votes

the thing is, she's not completly invincible in that ult - whoever she has marked can still cc or damage her. Also, her early and midgame are complete garbage unlike tryndramere's and she's gated by mana on top of that.

Crett3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=awP1Asj5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-26T03:59:18.077+0000)

the thing is, she's not completly invincible in that ult - whoever she has marked can still cc or damage her. Also, her early and midgame are complete garbage unlike tryndramere's and she's gated by mana on top of that.

She's still a ridiculous design, which is why Riot's relaunching her entirely. They really should take another look at Tryndamere.

JAGMAG8 votes

so during his ult trynd can still be cced just to many people are like but i dont want to pick a cc champion i want to pick full damage champion i personally find guys like olaf to be much worse as they can ignore cc

Akuma Kai1 votes

If you're ulting support you're doing it wrong lmao. You realize whoever you ult takes more damage from you? You're suppose to focus out the carries.....

Ackelope1 votes

The point of ulting the support is to make it so the entire enemy team, aside from the support, can't damage or cc you. Why ult one person to do more dmg to them and assassinate them when you can ult the least threatening person on an enemy team and proceed to go ham on the entire remaining bit of their team with no penalties?

Akuma Kai1 votes

It's smarter to ult the main threat and take them out. You do increased damage 20 / 30 / 40% to whoever you ult. The only reason you would be ulting a support is if you don't know how to dodge.... fact of the matter here is that Poppy is best used to take out threats ASAP and with her ult it lets you do just that.

Fights in high elo don't last long and are normally carried by 1 or 2 people. When you take out the main threat their other teammates are no problem to your other carries. So yeah...... ulting the support is only a good idea if you don't trust yourself to avoid cc/dmg (which is not hard if you play the game long enough to know each champs abilities.)

Meeks0111 votes

Common misconception about Poppy: Her passive reduces all damage EXCEEDING 10% of your current health by 50%. So if you have 500 HP and take 60 damage then it'll be reduced to 55. And it takes effect after armor too.

Also, she is reliant on mana and has (I think) the lowest mana pool in the game. She has no AOE whatsoever and no built-in sustain.

IAMS4T4N6 votes

i dont understand why fiora was reworked before trynd lol at least she couldnt ult while cced

SaltyToplaneGoat8 votes

Well, maybe someone just had a really good idea for Fiora and then they started working on it... but in terms of urgency they should have looked at Tryndramere at like two seasons ago.

I don't consider the Fiora rework bad or anything (personally I like her new kit), but Tryndramere is frustrating to a level that old Fiora could only dream to achieve...

Silents4295 votes

Is, Is tryn just becoming news to people? He is old as fuck, he is obviously going to get reworked and changed at some point, but everyone makes these threads like his problems never occurred to Riot, like this is suppose to enlighten anyone.

Ace Access 1 votes

welcome to the planet Earth

Photos of Ghosts4 votes

No, it's just about realising his rework is still not planned after all these years

Silents4291 votes

And rightfully so, Tryn still functions in the meta, the champions getting reworks do not.

Tryn can easily just get a gameplay update similar to the recent juggernaut changes and be perfectly fine.

Only Play Darius5 votes

The main problem I see with Tryndamere is his safety when splitpushing.

Other champs that like to splitpush MasterYi Nasus Darius Yasuo are relatively vulnerable to getting ganged up on and removed from play if they push their luck. With Tryndamere, it is near impossible to really get rid of him no matter how far he has overextended because he has a massive wallhop dash, movespeed from his crit items, and if all else fails, guaranteed 5 seconds to live and find a way to get out of the situation. Then he comes back 30 seconds later to do it all over again.

I don't necessarily have a problem with splitpushers in general, we need something to deal with teamfight-only comps. What I find stupid is when one of them can spend 90% of the game under your inhib turret and never get punished for it because even if you send 3 people he will find a way out, or you spend so much time chasing him around that you lose an objective as a result.

MLDzXnRRR5 votes

Trynda is useless in teamfights (stuns, slows, exhaust) and just gets exploded. So he can only backdoor.

FistOfSharkiesha4 votes

When people say he's countered by CC my eyes roll so far to the back of my head. There's this thing called tenacity, and CC is in a finite supply. You can't expect a champion's only counter to be using all of your team's cc on him just to be mauled to death by the other 4 champions while Trynda gets away and lifesteals all his hp back to resume splitpushing. Invulnerability has 0 counterplay and needs to be removed from the game entirely. At the very least rework it so that he can be immune to death, but that after his ultimate ends he dies.

JoroA2 votes

I remember reading somewhere that riot did plan on reworking him, however ALOT of people were against it, claiming that his ult is part of his identity and since then riot has ignored him, because he isn't a factor in LCS (witch in their eyes is the most important). So all they did was nerf ap trynd. But it makes one think... How impotrant is the identity of a champion vs how toxic a champion can be?

luckmallory1 votes

Extremely important. If you remove his ult, you may as well make a new champ

Sooko2 votes

I am pretty sure once Poppy's rework is out, Tryndamere will be the next... let us say... Anti-Christ of LoL.

Of course he can't rival her ability to 1v5, but he definitely holds second place, considering counterplay keeps being introduced in older champions and he has escaped unpunished so far...

Learnding2 votes

He's like the easiest champion to counter in the game. Literally any form of CC completely halts any actions he can perform, having anyone with decent CC completely shuts him down.

Hugify2 votes

They should probably nerf his early hp.

I don't see why a hyper-carry has the second best level 1 hp In the game.

alfavhunter2 votes

I don't really think he is op, but he does need a rework, his kit is feast, trash everyone or famine, split push till at feast

It's not really a good play style for the player or his enemy

Snake Town2 votes

I don't think trynd is overpowered by any means, he definitely has his weaknesses. But the thing is his kit just doesn't feel interactive for the opposing team. You basically just cc him and wait for his ult to end... then he dies, unless he's very fed in which case you die. I feel like there's just more that could be done with him than that.

XVI Jake IVX2 votes

Just play these champs: Nasus Riven Vayne Malphite summoner 3 item 3110 item 3075 Darius

Tryndamere does have counter play to him. This is how you do it: Group 5 mid and pressure mid if he is split pushing. Force dragon fights if he isn't there. Get a cc team because trust me tryndamere can't do anything against cc. Ask your team jungle for early gank. Honestly though I don't know how to beat a tryndamere ,but I hope this helps :) I know I lose like every game against a malphite.

TheVishual1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=awP1Asj5,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-26T02:48:20.667+0000)

I'll be completly honest here: you could take Tryndra's kit and strap the title "Outdated piece of shit that should have never been released and should have been reworked AGES ago" on it. You thought Teemo was frustrating? At least you have that sweet feeling of relief when you finally kill that satanic incarnate. But with that guy? No, fuck it.

You can have 5k effective hitpoints, 200 armor, a randuins against the crits - it does not matter, you die against a glass cannon build in 3 seconds that for some fucked up reason has a FIVE SECOND INVULV on it - not to forget the slow and the AD reducer so you can forget trading OR escaping in the first place.

But let's just try to be objective here and figure out just why this guy needs a rework:

1.) Crit dependence + plus the first half of the game is pretty much "either I'm lucky or get crits and stomp you despite having no skill andI let luck decide the lane" or "I do not get crits but still am relevant" because 2.) He gets rewarded for playing PvE 75% of the game. Wasn't there a major design headline somewhen in the past? "MEANINGFUL INTERACTION"? Well, guess what, this champ is the complete antithesis of it. Either he completly AVOIDS all kind of interaction (not fed) or, when fed, denies all interaction apart from murdering you because of a: 3.) Complete lack of effective counterplay. Yepp, kiting sounds nice and all, but against a spammable, walljumping gapcloser AND a unavoidable slow that's SUCH a good idea, no? And you want to trade? Enjoy your reduced AD AND a time window of 5 seconds where you cannot kill him but he can surely kill you five times over.

You know, I can get people getting mad when a Riven kills them. But hey, at least that Riven player invested some kind of mechanical skill into that - meanwhile the Tryndramere player just slams his active items and rightclicks you to death - while you can do nothing apart form putting his ultimate on cooldown. Feels completly fair, no? Also with the armor nerfs buying item against that seems more like a joke to me.

I honestly don't give a shit if he's strong or weak in pro play, LCS or whatever: he's just frustrating as fuck to play against. I personally dodge every game with a Tryndramere by now - not because I think we would lose 100%, but simply because this champion's presence in a game literally sucks all fun out of the match. I would ban him, but sadly the balance team STILL has not nerfed sated devourer and too much shit is OP atm to throw a ban on Tryndramere.

Rework that guy already - he's a standing monument on how you can screw up a melee champion design.

EDIT: I am impressed: 5 seconds and there is a downvote. Apparently Tryndra players react sensitive to someone even TALKS abotu touching their precious freeElo...

So basically you let tryn farm for 40 minutes and wonder why he's killing you with 300cs worth of gold

Photos of Ghosts5 votes

Use the reply feature, you're taking space.

Shénzhì1 votes

This community is destroying the game. He does need a change, I agree.

#All old kits needs to be sanitized.

luckmallory1 votes

I would say 100 reasons why you are wrong, but I am a tryndamere main and i will just get flamed so QQ on i guess

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Regarding 2, he's not the only PvE based champion. Nasus spends most of his game just farming, even during teamfights. If they fixed the other parts of his kit, should he continue to be a split pushing champion? Why not potentially rework him to be more of a jungler?

zangager1 votes

Any hard CC > Trynd

Seriously, try playing a champ before posting about how you hate it so much.

Nightcrow Teo1 votes

Make tryn's ult to 3 second.So that he has to time his ult instead of just spam it. Or make the ult cd really longgg like Karthus and Shen

Malicious Fury1 votes

Lol: INVULV

In Vulv

click

Ikrit1221 votes

Any champ that has built-in invulnerability (and not Zhonya's effect) is really hard to balance. Kayle, Tryn, and Poppy have been issues for years, either OP or UP. They reworked the first two and are working on Poppy, but unless they kill her ult, they will have huge issues with balance still

JedenVojak1 votes

Tryndamere's only means of attack is run up to someone and auto attack them, in melee range, but he's a "no counterplay relic"

If he's no counterplay, then so is every Marksman.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

At leats marksmen have (mostly) no escape and die when you load enough damage on them

JedenVojak1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=awP1Asj5,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2015-08-26T21:32:59.752+0000)

At leats marksmen have (mostly) no escape and die when you load enough damage on them

Ezreal Corki Vayne Lucian Graves Caitlyn Tristana

The majority of marksmen have escapes. Also, they will do more damage overall throughout the course of the game because they have extended targeting ability by being ranged, while often carrying their own attack steroids, either via damage or armor shred or attack speed.

Tryndamare must always put himself at risk for his damage, and his ult serves as his window of opportunity to apply his damage - otherwise he would never be able to apply it in the first place.

Seriously if you want to have an easy lane vs Tryndamere top, play Anivia. She has stuns and slows for days, can cram a wall in his face, and will just egg if he dives her.

MilfHuntUnitXJ91 votes

Looking at this whiney post made me want to main trynd again.

Hooray for all the weakling pussies motivating others to make them cry some more!!

ThatToxicTroll1 votes

trondomore laughs at your saltTryndamere HA HA HA HA

Koldheartedjsp1 votes

stopped reading and downvoted when i got to lucky crits

35% is NOT a "lucky crit."

stop thinking that it is, because it isn't

you honestly think if he sits there whacking you 3-5 times, that it's "lucky" he got a crit? Please

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