What we have learned from Worlds so far

Lugg·Oct 4, 2016·9 votes·832 views

First off, needs a serious nerf. She is 100% pick/ban so far and an 83.3% win rate. This is pretty similar to what happened at Worlds last year. If nerfing her will make her to weak or unviable, then she needs a major rework. She is simply too strong for her role. Gut the cat so we can see some actual diversity in the jungle. Gragas wasn't as strong and you nerfed him.

Secondly, needs serious nerfs. She is 95.8% pick/ban (it would be 100% if all mids knew how to play her) and has a 71.4% win rate. Her kit has so much utility that she doesn't need the obscene damage.

Third, . If you nerf Nid, you have to nerf Elise and Lee since Nid is the only one really beating them. Elise and Lee have the same problems as Nid as well. This would open the jungle back up to a lot of viable picks.

Lastly, the win rates on are really high and they probably need some slight nerfing.

35 Comments

BastionKrossOct 4, 20163 votes

Mordekaiser was 100% pick/ban last year at Worlds and got completely destroyed by nerfs shortly after, remaining in the dumpster for months until the balance team gave him some pity buffs. Gangplank was in the same pick/ban boat and got handed consistent nerfs for basically the entirety of season 6.

If I were a Nid or Syndra main, I would be very afraid of the next few patches.

Its LiuKangOct 4, 20161 votes

Or jayce because he's been picked at worlds again which means Nerf's for him again.

LuggOct 5, 20162 votes

Let's be fair, the rework on Morde was god awful. Everyone knew he had to be gutted or he would be bot in every game since you can't have a melee champ go toe to toe with long range champs without them being OP. Riot just has to find a better niche for him.

GP has been the single strongest champ in the game since his rework. He literally has no weakness at all if played correctly. He has everything you could want in a kit. Strong poke, true damage, extra gold generation, sustain, immunity to CC, waveclear, global ult, and the ability to single-handedly win any teamfight with a normal ability with pretty much zero counterplay late game. GP has gotten a steady diet of very light nerfs since the rework, they really need to do a major nerf on his barrels if he is to be anywhere near balanced.

specter424Oct 4, 20162 votes

We knew those champions (other than Lee Sin) are op and would be picked

Yet they nerfed Shen???

LuggOct 4, 20162 votes

There was no doubt Lee would be OP, they buffed him twice before Worlds for no good reasons.

specter424Oct 4, 20161 votes

yea he fits their lc$$$$$ big plays category but I mean still the point remains we knew everything being picked would be picked yet they nerfed gnar and shen and no one else

LuggOct 4, 20162 votes

That's the problem I have with Riot when it comes to Lee Sin. He is going to still have big plays even if you put him in a balanced place simple due to the nature of his kit.

iTaLenTZOct 4, 20161 votes

You are forgetting Karma and Alistar

EcchiOtakuTMOct 4, 20162 votes

Karma is niche nothing special, alistar on the otherhand has flanking power, no nerf that won't completely dumpster him will change that plus like gnar only certain players can draw out the real power of alistar if not played fully optimal he just becomes a bodygaurd and can't snowball into his real flank power.

While back to karma, all she has is the MS increase shield and slight early poke, she's literally only picked for her MS shield with sivir and sivir hypercarries.

LuggOct 5, 20161 votes

I'm not worried about Karma too much. She only has one significantly damaging ability, you take her for utility. Plus her win rate at Worlds is below 50%.

Alistar is a pain to deal with, but his last nerf put him in a pretty close to balanced state IMHO. He just may need a bit longer CD on his knockup since it's such a game changing ability.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 7, 20161 votes

He's 9-1 at worlds,. All the wins weren't even close, the only support to lose with him got benched. By your own standards he is easily one of the most busted champions at worlds.

LuggOct 7, 20161 votes

After the day he had today, you may be right.

However, it's hard to nerf him at this point without making him nonviable.

EcchiOtakuTMOct 4, 20161 votes

Nid does need a rework only mains and high elo heavy in mechanics can pull her off but she WILL dominate early game and outfarm even from behind(literally had a nid who was still lvl 1 vs the enemy jungler's lvl 3 yet still managed to counter jungle easily he was a good player for sure imo still)

Syndra been needed nerfs, powerful regardless of solo-q or pre-made for quite some times, everyone's been ignoring it cause there was just someone overshadowing her, but she's been this strong since the unnecessary extra buff post-rework(Her Q ratio buff was needed but afterward they just kept buffing for no reason).

Elise tbh is quite fair to play against and use, although for more jungle diversity it wouldn't matter, the moment elise and lee get nerfed graves zac, hecarim, kha, and skarner(surprisingly) come into even more flavor and they def aren't just powerful in solo-Q since skarner is 3-0 right now synergizing quite strongly with cassi. So just nerfing jungle won't go well at all.

Lucian isn't really good aside from his ulti's poke, you're just trying to break his legs if you really push for a nerf. Him and caitlyn are basically the basics for adcs not really deserving a nerf even on the world stage it's only empowered cause lucian has a team to feel a bit more confident but he still has his issues which cost him a lot. As for caitlyn sure she has heavy siege power with capped W but she still has heavy weaknesses which solo-Q and premade still punish accordingly. So unlike junglers where it'll just emphasize the powerhouses overshadowed nerfing these adcs I'm in complete disagreement with.

Lastly kennen, he's powerful when you don't have anyone to properly disengage him off the team or allow his flanks to go through. However he does have a powerful laning phase(since protobelt finnally fixed his waveclear issue for better Q uses) and his lockdown can go pretty unanswered, so I could see slight nerfs.

All in all I do say nid needs a rework, syndra could revert a buff... if not guess nerfing, Jungle nerfs won't do anything since there's already a large cast of junglers just at the junglers choice of who they want. Fully against adc nerfs, and kennen does need slight nerfing.

LuggOct 5, 20161 votes

Elise has an overloaded kit like Nid's, she just isn't as toxic. She just needs slight nerfs to her late game, so she is more risk/reward. You either use her to get ahead early, or she won't bring much to the game late. I'm not worried about the other junglers who will step up since I'm 100% sure that Zac and Skarner will get nerfed in the next month or two. Hec popularity has always depended on the meta. Kha will be adjusted after the Rengar rework to be at his power level.

Lucian IS really good. He has no weak phase at all during the game. He is strong early, mid, and late. He has no significant weakness at all, he just doesn't carry as hard late like Jinx, Twitch, Kog, etc. Plus he works with pretty much any support.

Since they fixed his ult to be more reliable, Kennen has been really strong. They just need to slightly nerf his laning phase since he is picked for his teamfighting ability.

EcchiOtakuTMOct 7, 20161 votes

Elise I still don't know, I don't really have an issue with "overloaded" for her. While nid I can SEE the overload but it just doesn't feel like that's the right reason, I would love nid's current kit if it just had other strengths in exchange for a lot of her clear speed. Her clear speed just offers too much flexibility a jungler would want. But for overloaded yes they may be but elise is pretty fine while nid I just want to see clear speed exchanged for something else.

Yea lucian is good but he does have a weaker end game, his AA range can get him into quite a bit of issues. Still though it's his team that allows him to work nothing really too overwhelming.

Kennen it's not just his ulti buff, it's protobelt too. Kennen's issue has always been a weak lane phase due to no waveclear now he has something magical to fix it. I love protobelt unlike most of the kneejerkers when it came out, but yea kennen just needs maybe an E nerf. Probably by lowering the damage of it to slightly trim his waveclear since he mainly uses it to apply marks anyways.

Swiftstrike4Oct 4, 20161 votes

I think Rumble needs to be addressed more than some of the other champions mentioned. He is frustrating to play against as a lane bully and being manaless, low cooldowns, and scales pretty well after two items. The only issue he has is sustain in lane, but he can easily kite top laners away if the player is good enough.

I just think the top lane's diversity is pretty bad (it typically is) but the prevalence of rumble is more problematic.

LuggOct 5, 20161 votes

Rumble is a good champion, but he isn't near as toxic as a lot of the tops right now. While he doesn't have mana or energy, he does have a resource you have to manage or you end up overheated and can't do anything for few seconds.

I would much rather lane against Rumble than Darius, Riven, Irelia, etc.

Swiftstrike4Oct 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Rumble is a good champion, but he isn't near as toxic as a lot of the tops right now. While he doesn't have mana or energy, he does have a resource you have to manage or you end up overheated and can't do anything for few seconds.

I would much rather lane against Rumble than Darius, Riven, Irelia, etc.

He isn't really toxic. I don't know what you mean by that. Laning against rumble is frustrating because he can shove you under tower easily, roam, and his ult gives him the ability to gank a lane. He can also just power shove and try to go for first tower.

Irelia has a resource she has to manage and I think she is easily countered. If you don't know how to play against Darius and you main the top lane then you need to probably practice other lanes. He is an extremely common matchup, very predictable, and always shoves. He is easily kited and very gankable. If you play with any sustain champion in the top lane you should be fine. And playing against riven is simple. Don't die early and you should out scale her. She is very telgraphed in her abilities and a lot of top laners do pretty well against her.

Rumble scales really well after getting two items and he has pretty low cooldowns with no mana. I don't like how he can just easily spam his abilities to bully you out of lane or just shove to tower. He can also just shove and roam if he gets to 6 since his ultimate is so long.

Personally I hate laning against Olaf and Fiora the most, but that is because I main Nasus . Fiora just is a better duelist even if I kill her early and I can't slow Olaf so he dictates the lane pretty much and can pick if he wants to dive or not.

LuggOct 5, 20161 votes

Rumble can't really spam abilities too much or he overheats. This gives you a great window to trade and harass him. He is strong early and mid, but drops off late. The big thing he brings to the game is teamfighting.

Irelia is a champ I personally hate. I have DUMPSTERED her early, but she gets two items and your lead literally means nothing. I was up 50 CS, 4 kills, and two levels on her and she 1v1'd me no problem at all. That is beyond broken.

Darius can't be kited if you play him properly. His grab is longer than the AA on any top laner, and then he slows and rapes you. It doesn't matter that he's predictable since his kit is so strong.

Riven is pretty binary. She facerolls some champs and can't do anything to others.

Olaf is the most balanced of the ones mentioned. He is strong (but not unbeatable) against some champs, and weaker against others with still being able to have a chance.

Fiora needs serious nerfs. She has way to much utility for possibly the best duelist in the game. Her ultimate needs to be completely reworked. It heals for more than the Janna and Soraka ults for god's sake.

TheorcheroOct 5, 20161 votes

They're already nerfing Nid. They're increasing her W cooldown and making the reset timer much lower.

Honestly I just want them to rework her and balance her for mid lane instead of jungle. She's received a TON of nerfs ever since her rework.

LuggOct 5, 20161 votes

Personally I think they need to make her spear flat damage. It may be the most toxic normal ability in the game since a long range spear can literally take half your health and she can spam them non-stop once she gets CDR and mana. The just need to make it a little faster and be in line with other poke abilities.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 5, 20161 votes

if who needs a nerf is all you're learning from worlds...

LuggOct 5, 20161 votes

That's the biggest thing to learn IMHO. It really highlights which champs are OP and/or broken.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 6, 20161 votes

I think its far from the biggest if even a thing lol

Meep ManOct 5, 20161 votes

Uhm... I don't think Lucian needs a nerf and I'm not sure Lee Sin needs a nerf either, much to the rest of the communities disagreement. Also, I think Cait, Kennen, and maybe even Elise don't need straight nerfs, but changes.

SwiftKitten88Oct 6, 20161 votes

nid does NOT need nerfs, first off the games whe was picked in she made VERY little difference to the outcome.

she doesn't even reach 50% win rate until gold, and even at plat + if the game goes past 40 min her win rate drops well below 50% .

also.. these are pro players.. they have voice chat.. they know how to pick a good team comp...

nidalee is a jungle with no tankyiness and no CC, you can just always choose to do that as a jungler.. you need to work with the team.

the games nidalee was choosen.. most of them had siege comps designed to play to nid's strengths,

also most of the game whe was picked in and won.. barely meant anything.. becuase honestly the team that had nid was just stright up BETTER than the other team..

i mean my god clg vs rox 11/1/6 AurelionSol clg freaking wiped the floor with them...

your saying she has a 80% win rate. in worlds..

ok yeah, and what is your freaking sample size?

4? 5? hell even if it was 10.. that's still NOTHING.

how many players are there in worlds..

how many players play league.

you are talking about the best.. of the best.. of the best.. and taeking the top .0001% of those and making them face each other.

i mean HALF the freaking bans are TARGETED.

do u think huhi is EVER going to get AurelionSol again in worlds? NO HE WONT!!!

nidalee was a VERY strong pick for most of this season.. EVERY FREAKING LCS jungler KNOWS HOW TO FREAKING PLAY HER... and im willing to bet SOME of them are good.

LuggOct 6, 20162 votes

Nid made little difference in the games she was played in??? What are you smoking? She has an 83% win rate, 57% kill participation, has an almost 300 gold advantage at 20 min, and hasn't given up a first blood yet. I realize you are a Nid main and probably really like her, but you are being completely delusional to say that.

Yes her win rate drops after 40 minutes, she's an early/mid game champion and her average games last less than 35 minutes.

She doesn't need tankyness or CC. She has insane damage and controls objectives very well. Plus she is one of the fastest junglers and best counter junglers in the game. She brings extreme early pressure to the enemy team.

Of course she is mainly selected for siege comps, she is a poke champion, that's what she does when grouping.

You want to talk sample size but you completely ignore that this has been happening for YEARS. And it's not like she is winning against noobs, these are the best players in the world we are talking about. I guess she is the most banned champion because these pro players and coaches have no clue what they are doing.

Yes, she is a difficult champion to master, but there is a big reason every pro jungler plays her. She is the best in that role.

SwiftKitten88Oct 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Nid made little difference in the games she was played in??? What are you smoking? She has an 83% win rate, 57% kill participation, has an almost 300 gold advantage at 20 min, and hasn't given up a first blood yet. I realize you are a Nid main and probably really like her, but you are being completely delusional to say that.

Yes her win rate drops after 40 minutes, she's an early/mid game champion and her average games last less than 35 minutes.

She doesn't need tankyness or CC. She has insane damage and controls objectives very well. Plus she is one of the fastest junglers and best counter junglers in the game. She brings extreme early pressure to the enemy team.

Of course she is mainly selected for siege comps, she is a poke champion, that's what she does when grouping.

You want to talk sample size but you completely ignore that this has been happening for YEARS. And it's not like she is winning against noobs, these are the best players in the world we are talking about. I guess she is the most banned champion because these pro players and coaches have no clue what they are doing.

Yes, she is a difficult champion to master, but there is a big reason every pro jungler plays her. She is the best in that role.

lol i remember your name... so i already know there is no point pulling out statistics because you wont even read them.

but ill start some basics

her winrate donest drop after 40 min... it drops after 10 min

and because you only seem to care about high elo play and not about the other 97% of the population ill just focus on that...

so plat + at 10 min in nidalee has a 65% win rate by 15 min he has a 58% win rate by 20 min its 56% at 25 min its 54% win rate at 30 min its a 50% win rate by 35 min she has a 47% win rate by 40 min its a 45% win rate by 45 its a 44% win rate by 50 its a 43% win rate

this is ONLY looking at plat + data so.. in a 30 min game.. which is "33 min at plat and 31 min at challenger" she is ALREADY at a 50% win rate

granted im not sure what the "average game length" is now becuase i took it from a site that is a bit outdated, (aka updated patch 5.6) because i couldn't find one with data for this season so that might say it a tiny bit

another VERY obvious point that EVERYONE seems to be missing here is that guess what.

the DIFFERENCE between bronze nidalee win rate and challenger nidalee win rate.. is 9% 46% for bronze 54% for challenger

now.. you say nidalee is OP in challenger.. ok maybe she is.. what do u plan on doing? what do u want to bring her winrate down to? 52%? 51%

ok lets lower that 9%

youi now have a winrate of 42% in bronze for a 51% in challenger

this would mean at plat she would have a 48-50% win rate

for for bronze - gold (aka 80% of the population) she would be at a 42-48% win rate for the next 17% of the poplation she would be slightly below average

and for diamond she would be balanced

and for challenger she would be a decent pick

i dont want to put words in your mouth.. but to me this is what it looks like you are saying you want.

and that you are ok with screwing over .. idk.. 97% of the population of nidalee players... so she can be balanced for the top 3%

or we can kee it how it is now.. and keep her so she doesn't reach a 50% win rate until mid gold and donest get a crazy absurd winrate until diamond.

which you know.. caters to the 97% of the population instead of the top 3%

and of course you haven't played on the account your posting from... but the LAST rank it says you were from the accoutn you are posting from is "silver"

in which nidalee has a 48% win rate

so either your NOT silver.. and you are in the top 3% where nidalee IS an an issue and is banworthy

or your NOT in the top 3% and your just bitching for no reason at all. becuase nidalee is already weak in your elo

OR you ACTUALLY think she is strong in your elo becuase you don't know how to face her or you happen to play champ she happens to hardcounter.

so..either.. 1 your in the top 3% and you can ban her so the other 97% of us can have a balanced champ 2. your bitching for no reason 3. you actually think she is OP in your elo. and

or some combination of those..

becuase honestly UNLESS you are in a elo that nidalee IS an issue. (she starts to become good at plat and starts to get REALLY good at diamond) you have no right to complain.

i mean my god.. if your challenger and nidalee has a 54% win rate in your elo i can UNDERSTAND you wanting nerfs. but even then.. i would DISSAGREE with the nerfs unless we somehow were able to lower the winrate difference between bronze and challenger

LuggOct 7, 20161 votes

Ugh, longest post I think that has ever been posted in these forums.

Anyway, the average game length right now is about 32 minutes, which (according to your own stats) put the vast majority of games well within Nids high win rate. Plus you are failing to account for the fact that games with a Nid probably end much quicker than that. Plus Plat+ data is the only thing you can really use since lower ELO is a total crapshoot due to so many more variables.

What I want for Nidalee is a major rework. Her kit puts her in a place where she is either OP, toxic, and unhealthy for the game if not changed or she is completely nonviable if nerfed. This is pretty much a lose/lose for everyone.

As for comparing Bronze and Challenger win rates, that's really a complete waste of time. Riot has stated numerous times that they try to balance the game around Diamond level with adjustments for dominance at higher ELOs and pro play.

SwiftKitten88Oct 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ugh, longest post I think that has ever been posted in these forums.

Anyway, the average game length right now is about 32 minutes, which (according to your own stats) put the vast majority of games well within Nids high win rate. Plus you are failing to account for the fact that games with a Nid probably end much quicker than that. Plus Plat+ data is the only thing you can really use since lower ELO is a total crapshoot due to so many more variables.

What I want for Nidalee is a major rework. Her kit puts her in a place where she is either OP, toxic, and unhealthy for the game if not changed or she is completely nonviable if nerfed. This is pretty much a lose/lose for everyone.

As for comparing Bronze and Challenger win rates, that's really a complete waste of time. Riot has stated numerous times that they try to balance the game around Diamond level with adjustments for dominance at higher ELOs and pro play.

there is DIFFERENCE around "balancing around diamond elo" when the winrate differnce bewteen bronze and challnger is 2-3% and when its NINE PERCENT like Nidalee has.

i mean sure if nidalee has a 51 % winrate in bronze and a 54% winrate in diamond.. YES even as a nid main.. i may not WANT nerfs.. but she would be CLEARLY OP

but nidalee has a 46% winrate in bronze 48% in silver 49-50% in gold and 51-52% in plat you CANT just do a flat nerf UNTIL you CLOSE THE GAP between elos.

i am NOT not against nerfs to higher elo nid...

but any changes need to ALSO either MAINTAIN her current winrate in lower elos.. or IMPROVE her winrate in lower elos.

and what i see today on pbe is a FLAT nerf.. and although that WILL probably fix her challenger issue it is also going to DRASTCIALLY drop her other elos.. which CAN NOT afford to lose the 2-4% that challenger winrate needs to drop to be balanced. THAT is the issue. you CANNOT do a straight nerf to nidalee to make her not op in the top 3% WITHOUT destroying her in the bottom 60-97% and you CANNOT do a flat buff to her to make her lower elos better wihout buddign challanger as well what is already opeven MORE OP in challenger

THIS IS THE ISSUE. she CANT get a FLAT nerf or a FLAT buff in EITHER direction, here winrate gap is TOO WIDE.

LuggOct 7, 20161 votes

That's why I said "What I want for Nidalee is a major rework."

One of the things they need to do (IMHO) is make her spear a flat damage ability. No more of this "takes half your health" at max range crap. That is honestly one of the worst mechanics in the entire game. She needs to be geared more towards an All-in champ. Take the damage she is losing from the spear and move it to her melee abilities. That way she to have more risk going in for a kill. Plus her traps need to do some actual damage as well since they are very easy to see and avoid.

I would want them to keep her as an early impact jungler and focused on being a 1v1 duelist and not a teamfighter.

SwiftKitten88Oct 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's why I said "What I want for Nidalee is a major rework."

One of the things they need to do (IMHO) is make her spear a flat damage ability. No more of this "takes half your health" at max range crap. That is honestly one of the worst mechanics in the entire game. She needs to be geared more towards an All-in champ. Take the damage she is losing from the spear and move it to her melee abilities. That way she to have more risk going in for a kill. Plus her traps need to do some actual damage as well since they are very easy to see and avoid.

I would want them to keep her as an early impact jungler and focused on being a 1v1 duelist and not a teamfighter.

while i can see how you came to that opinion.. i disagree. she does NOT need a major rework.. infact her LAST major rework was HUGE success UNTIL 7 months after her rework riot decided to let her jungle.. THAT IS WHAT SCREWED EVERYTHING UP

if they WANT to balance nidalee in a SIMPLE way.

you can do a DIRECT REVERT to the patch 4.17 on her (obviously excluding bugfixes becuase you need to keep those) leave her at that for a patch or two to see how she is in the jungle becuase that THAt point you have RESTORED nidalee's balance at top and mid and and support as well as restored her to a point where (outside of jungle item and jungle camps changes) she COULD NOT effectively jungle.

then add in the patch 6.9 and 6.11 changes.

see where she is at in the jungle again .. THEN IF she STILL cannot jungle after a 2 or 3 more patches of people trying to with her THEN see if there is ANY way to LET her back into the jungle WITHOUT causing the gigantic mess you did at the start of season 5.

THAT would be the PROPER way to fix nidalee.

but i think that chances of that happening are next to non-existant.

LuggOct 7, 20161 votes

You can't do a direct revert to Nid. The reason she was reworked in the first place was because she was pure cancer to play against. That is why I think they should just go with a new rework on her.

Personally, I think almost every champion should be viable in at least two roles. There are several champions that are pretty much stuck in their main role and that's it. A notable exception would be Singed. He doesn't work very well anywhere but top, but he has definite counterplay in almost every matchup. Right now the only real counterplay Nid really has in the jungle is Elise and Lee Sin.

SwiftKitten88Oct 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You can't do a direct revert to Nid. The reason she was reworked in the first place was because she was pure cancer to play against. That is why I think they should just go with a new rework on her.

Personally, I think almost every champion should be viable in at least two roles. There are several champions that are pretty much stuck in their main role and that's it. A notable exception would be Singed. He doesn't work very well anywhere but top, but he has definite counterplay in almost every matchup. Right now the only real counterplay Nid really has in the jungle is Elise and Lee Sin.

... i said do a direct revert to patch 4.17... she was reworked in patch 4.10... patch 4.17 was the patch when all the post rework tweaks were completed...

god there is no way in hell i wan't season 3 nidalle back. i mean yeah that was the nidalee i orgianlly played when starting season and fell in love with. but my VERY first day with the new 4.10 reworked nidalee i knew INSTANTLY this was insanely better.

i mean this was the time where every other person was going "new rework nidalee sucks" and i was like.. "hell yeah this is WAY better"

not only can i use kitty for at level 1, i can farm for free very easy.. but at the price of getting in melee range as a squishy ap assasin. (which yes you CAN heal the damage off, but then you dont have mana to throw spears)

not only is pouncing in after landing a spear WAY more fun, exciting and rewarding,, it also means that people people PLAYING against me have a INSANE amount more counter-play. becuase i am now required to get within melee range and use takedown.

i loved the reworked nid so much, it was better for everyone.. and ANYONE who says the rework was a failure is frankly an idoit. what was a HUGE failure was letting her jungle.

and it took me about a year to finally agree that yeah, she did need some nerfs..

because for at LEAST 6 months i was very adament that.. because ZERO changes where made to vs player in ANY way and the ONLY change. between 4.17 and 5.2 when they let her jungle was and im gogin to quote this directly from the patch notes

V5.2 Nidalee General Attack frame sped up slightly Prowl New Effect: Can mark neutral monsters as Hunted, rooting them for 2 seconds

someone freaking tell me how that suddenly makes her "drastically OP"

of course it didn't help that that patch also introduced a small a bug that reset all your cooldowns every time you pressed R. (fixed next patch) you know minor things like that and that if you managed to pull of a very specific combination of skills moveing and clicking at the perfect time that is completely the opposite of how nidalee is normally played and is almost impossible to do by accident, and even hard to pull if on purpose.. you could throw an invisible spear this was patched sometime between august season 5 season 6 and not listed in the patch notes.. and the REASON it took them so damn long to fix.. was it was so rare they couldn't freaking reproduce it at will and it was

which honestly the WORST part of that bug was people saying that nidalee is bugged and that it happens every time you throw a spear... i MAIN nidalee.. i played over 300 nidalee games in that 6 month period and i dont even want to know how many speart i throw per game ... i threw an invisible spear i think... twice..

honestly you can barely call it a "bug" it was an "exploit"

i freaking guareetee you if nidalee in your game has throw invisble spears over and over.. not only are they purposely abusing the exploit, making EVERYONE hate nidalee. but they dont freaking TELL riot HOW they are doing it, JUST so they can abuse it.

but yeah.. for the love of god dont give us pre-rework nidalee back..

give me patch 4.17 nidalee back, and MAYBE add the 6.9 and 6.15 changes in

and THEN, ONLY after that point. tryto give her a way to jungle.. WITHOUT killing her other roles