I think hecarim could use some love.

Rozair·Feb 25, 2016·39 votes·2,162 views

The way hecarim is supposed to be is tanky yet his passive makes him deal more damage the faster he is. Aside from Deadman plate there is no other speed items for him. I've done all speed items to get him as fast as he can possibly go. I've outrun nasus with wither on me.

The issue I have now is that he can no longer run through minions and boots of swiftness was nerfed. He now gets crowded in a minion wave yet fizz can walk through minions for no reason. Hec is a freaking centar from the shadow isles. Why are puny minions stopping him

42 Comments

Sugar MommaFeb 25, 20163 votes

He's getting buffed on the PBE atm.

VicimusFeb 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sugar Momma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=avv2gVkn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-25T17:43:40.569+0000)

He's getting buffed on the PBE atm.

What is the buff?

Sugar MommaFeb 25, 20161 votes

(See Post Below, Idk why it posted twice)

RozairFeb 26, 20162 votes

That's not a buff whatsoever. 9 times out of 10 the knock back is in the wrong direction pushing them towards their tower. Also multiplicative is great when you don't have any movement items but flat speed doesn't have diminishing returns like multiplicative does therefore it's a late game nerf and an early game buff

Sugar MommaFeb 26, 20161 votes

Well if you're faster early game it's easier to get them to knock back from behind. Also, it strengthens his E-R combo from behind.

Buffs are buffs. They may be small, but honestly it wasn't long ago Hecarim was op/borderline op and i don't think anyone wants to go back to that.

MrRazzleDazzleFeb 26, 20161 votes

Are you insane? This is a huge buff to his combo, and as a Hecarim jungle main, I'm excited as hell.

I don't know how you play him, so I'm just going to assume you don't get in front of the opponent when you use your E. If you're just knocking them forward then yeah, this could be considered a lame buff. But here's the trick. When you go in with your E, get ready to ult the enemy where you KNOW he's going to run to. Get in front of them. (Still hit him with the ult) Because of the way fear works now, they will always go the opposite direction of where you are (i.e., into your team). Because you still had E charged up, you then change directions and push them even farther from safety.

Sugar MommaFeb 25, 20161 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/02/224-pbe-update.html

Hecarim

Devastating Charge (E) 
    Movement speed back to being multiplicative from additive.
    knock back distance also now scales based on how far Hecarim has traveled during E. 

        [NOTE: I believe knock back is 250 to 450 from ~300.]

MarshbouyFeb 25, 20163 votes

its because fizz is in a lane where there are a lot of ranged champs... top on the otherhand

MimaropaFeb 25, 20166 votes

Quinn, Vladimir, Gnar, Lissandra and probably some unconventional tops. All lanes can have ranged champions even though top is less likely, they still exist. Now with the nerf he gets more disadvantages.

MarshbouyFeb 26, 20162 votes

EVERY meelee top lane champ are disadvantaged. trying to get hecarim to ignore those disadvantages because "well reasons" is unfair to the 90% of meelee top laners who were creep blocked to hell by hecarims cheese

MimaropaFeb 26, 20163 votes

Its not just "well reasons" It fits thematically compared to fizz. Hecarim supposed to stomp over lesser beings. I also said MORE disadvantaged. melee supposed to be on a disadvantage against ranged but on Hecarim's case he is helpless against them with a minion wave compared to FIora, Jax, Irelia and Lissandra who can gap close easily. It doesn't make sense that Hecarim is slower than Udyr whose just running around wearing a dress., atleast give him ignore unit collision with his E at least.

MarshbouyFeb 26, 20161 votes

allowing him movement through minions on his e would keep the problem in game not to mention thematics are next to useless when balancing a champion. ryze is an all powerful mage who is in the top 5 most powerful league champs in lore, but he got buttfucked in nerfs also malphite is the size of a literal mountain but that doesnt change is in game size much

Cowgirl EdFeb 25, 20162 votes

run GHOST and build 4 phantom dancers

NarasimhaFeb 25, 20162 votes

The issue I have now is that he can no longer run through minions and boots of swiftness was nerfed. He now gets crowded in a minion wave yet fizz can walk through minions for no reason. Hec is a freaking centar from the shadow isles. Why are puny minions stopping him

Because Hec could walk through a wave, hit his W, spam his Q, and laugh at the enemy laner because they couldn't path to him while he ran through minions.
Because all other things aside, Fizz is a melee assassin in a lane designed for mages. His only form of wave clear is tied to his main form of escape/dodge. He needs to be able to run around because that's all he really can do.

DevlinCrowFeb 26, 20162 votes

I've read that it was because he'd just walk through the minions, dps the enemy then run back through them for safety (during the laning phase).

If they made it just for when like running towards/away from an enemy, that might be good change?

I also feel like he should deal trample damage too.

Have you tried using Ghost on him?

RozairFeb 26, 20161 votes

Yea I have but it has such a long cooldown. What if hec had a passive like this

Passive : charge: hecarim gains movement speed and can walk through units when traveling towards enemy champions. He gains attack damage based on his speed. This bonus is lost when moving away from enemy champions

DevlinCrowFeb 26, 20161 votes

Just trample and the ability to move through units would be fair imo

RozairFeb 26, 20161 votes

What would trample do? Knock them down? Or just damage when he runs through them?

Solidair3Feb 26, 20162 votes

He has a buff on the PBE that increases his knockback on E based on the distance he travels during its wind up. This should make his ganks harder to deal with, though I'm not sure jungle is the place most people wanted him buffed.

Big LincolnFeb 26, 20162 votes

what? jungle should be the place everyone wants him buffed

he's a blight to top lane

Solidair3Feb 26, 20162 votes

I do not disagree! But people seemed to favor him top lane last season so I'm not sure how they will feel about him now. I don't even play him myself, but I certainly fear his ganks.

RozairFeb 26, 20161 votes

I want hec to be a viable jungler again. Damn top laners ubusing him

Paladin 0f LifeFeb 25, 20161 votes

Bump

hotarseFeb 25, 20161 votes

AGREED with all CAPS!

RendarkanFeb 25, 20161 votes

item 3009 item 3512 item 3285 item 3100 item 3087 item 3142

Edit: You could swap out item 3087 for item 3046

SkyBlade79Feb 25, 20161 votes

genius

RendarkanFeb 25, 20161 votes

to add to this... Masteries something like:

http://i.imgur.com/V5l41lx.png

WiegrafOfValorFeb 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Edit: You could swap out for

And dies from one rotation from the support..

StormFang77Feb 25, 20161 votes

As a Hecarim main this is usually what I build item 1400 item 3009 item 3078 then if ahead item 3142 item 3742 and if I need tankiness item 3065 . I go the second path 90% of the time because its just safer. Also getting alacrity at some point is good.

Cosmic WarperFeb 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

As a Hecarim main this is usually what I build then if ahead and if I need tankiness . I go the second path 90% of the time because its just safer. Also getting alacrity at some point is good.

Triforce is bad on junglers. It's way too expensive and even as a snowball item it's bad after the statistical nerfs it got just for some CDR. Iceborn is way better if you want to stick to a target, be bulkier, and spam your Q.

StormFang77Feb 26, 20161 votes

The difference I've found is that I've usually snowballed quite well by that point and the stats are very useful on Hecarim, as almost every stat on it helps him. Plus Hec is probably one the last champs that I still buy trinity on.

Troll for TrumpFeb 26, 20162 votes

Yeah you get trinity, but you need more tankiness early and midgame. You need to be first in the fray,tanking all the damage for the squishy ADC and assassins that are popular in the meta. Get cinderhulk and two defensive items first, before getting triforce.

RozairFeb 26, 20161 votes

Hecarim isn't a problem in the jungle. He was nerfed as far as hanks go. I understand that the intent was to nerf his top lane but I feel like this was unfair

IqqiFeb 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The way hecarim is supposed to be is tanky yet his passive makes him deal more damage the faster he is. Aside from Deadman plate there is no other speed items for him. I've done all speed items to get him as fast as he can possibly go. I've outrun nasus with wither on me.

The issue I have now is that he can no longer run through minions and boots of swiftness was nerfed. He now gets crowded in a minion wave yet fizz can walk through minions for no reason. Hec is a freaking centar from the shadow isles. Why are puny minions stopping him

Is this real life? I don't think it was an intended mechanic or anything Riot could balance when for most of Season 5 you had Hec sitting at the fountain with homeguard boots just waiting to TP into a fight with the huge speed/damage buff.

I also apologize that you no longer can simply run and split push with virtually no chance of dieing like you can now. I apologize that Riot decided your ability to run faster than champions while having whiter on you somehow feels unbalanced to you.

RozairFeb 26, 20161 votes

Again you are talking about hecarim top. Hecarim jungle is where I play him and that's what he was made for. Top layers abused hec and caused the nerfs and left him at his current state.

IqqiFeb 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Again you are talking about hecarim top. Hecarim jungle is where I play him and that's what he was made for. Top layers abused hec and caused the nerfs and left him at his current state.

LOL ok sorry let's bring the champion back just to where you play him.

RozairFeb 26, 20161 votes

Yea that's the way it was before. Do you remember how low his play rate was before free homegaurds

Weasel KenseiFeb 26, 20161 votes

Randomly buffing champs to make them more viable because theyre out of the META is what has gotten us to where we are... well and the balance teams bias toward AD champs (namely marksmen).

What we need is toning down on all the stuff that displaces all the weaker non META champions. In all honestly, some of the reasons for the lower win % on certain champs is that they are countered by the over buffed META champs. A LOT of the imbalances this season so far has been because of items.

I always liked Sunfire, but the item has been getting buffed a lot, first it wasnt being bought enough MORE HP, then they decided IT NEEDS EXTRA WAVE CLEAR! Eventually it will be the only thing people buy, and some other item will get buffed so it can feel pretty too. Its circular and unbalances the game.

This kind of approach is being taken with champs. Xin who was fine as most people felt was SKY-ROCKETED to the top of the charts with MEGA BUFFS that were obviously too much, next patch nerfed cause... ugh, oops. Buffs to Kog, straight to the top. Not to mention MF and Graves reworks were completely redonkulous.

In my opinion, if we smooth out some more of those 52.5 - 53% win rates and higher back down toward 50-51%, then SOME of the 48% and lower will come up, because their counters wont be so oppressive.

So far, "Giving love" to champs means strapping a rocket pack to them and sending them to the top of the win %. I dont like that. No one should like that. A champ that sees little play means either there are much better choices, or the current popular champ choices (typically made up of the better choices) counter the champ and they cant expect to do well in that META.

Im not talking about nerfing your favorite champ people, Im talking about balancing the game. Buffing champs that arent performing well just creates the circular issue of them becoming META and some other champ needing "Love" as the supplant other champs when the "loved" champ becomes the superior choice.

So Im sorry OP I dont want Heca to get any love, I do want him to be viable, and I dont want you to feel like your picking him is lowering your shot at a win. I dont want him needlessly buffed when others deserve meaningful nerfs.

RozairFeb 26, 20161 votes

I played hec before he was flavor of the month top lane. I want to be able to play him the way I always have and that's an assassin with all movement speed. This aspect of hec has been nerfed incredibly expecially with the Nerf to boots of swiftness. I'm not looking to go too lane and teleport in with homegaurds. I'm looking to run through the jungle at blazing speeds to bot lane for a gank.

XenomancersFeb 26, 20161 votes

Hec just needs more natural tankiness. He's not tanky at all.

Astrael EventideFeb 26, 20161 votes

trinity force Boots of swiftness with aclarity bonus Dead Mans plate phantom dancer ludens Echo bloodthirster

This is my full build and it works magically for me. I've been running Heca for a long time now, and with the removal of Zepher this build seems to be the most effictive in my opinion