The problems with Rengar: Q

Doozku··10 votes·1,752 views

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/b/bf/Savagery.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/64?cb=20161030002258 Hello, I've been fairly disappointed with the Rengar rework and I've been wanting to point out the problems with this rework. I've put my thoughts out before, but they weren't really in a very digestible form. Therefore, I am going to make several small posts talking about all of the problems that I have with this rework. I'll split them up into abilities, because dissecting each individual part of his kit is probably the best way to go about this.

So what's the deal with Rengar's Q? Rengar's Q was the only ability to be completely changed with his rework, and has been a point of contention with a lot of the community. Old-Rengar players say that his Q is unfun to use, and promotes bruiser playstyle, while new Rengar enthusiasts say that his new Q has more counterplay than the old as well as slowing down his burst speed.

While some argue that his new Q helps with counterplay, but I'd actually argue that his Q really doesn't have as much counterplay as you may think. Infact, it really don't have much counterplay at all. Think about what this spell is. It is a skillshot, but it is also melee and nearly instant. The main counterplay to a skillshot, is simply to sidestep it. But you cannot sidestep an instant, melee skillshot. That's why no one ever tells you to dodge Yasuo's Q (not his tornado Q) as a form of counterplay, because you can't. The only way that Rengar can mess up this spell is if he misses it, but if you play a lot of this champion, this problem goes away. While this spell is slower than the old Q, its also AOE and (should) do more damage than his old Q. You also need less of this spell to kill someone. With Rengar's old Q, you'd have to land three Qs to kill someone. New Rengar only needs two to kill someone.

Because this spell really lacks counterplay, it becomes an incredibly difficult spell to balance. In fact, I'd argue that this spell is actually overloaded. Let's compare this new Q and the old Q. Rengar's old Q was a simple auto attack reset that gave attack speed if empowered. Rengar's new Q is an AOE, double hitting (this doesn't seem very important but in a world where TLD and BC exist, it is.), semi-auto attack reset nuke, that can also give Rengar a tiny dash. Rengar gets all of this essentially for free, with the only downsides being the longer cast time (which really doesn't matter) and the fact that Rengar can miss it, NOT that it can be dodged. This causes the spell to be nerfed into oblivion, because the downsides do not outweigh the upsides. Almost everything about this spell that can be nerfed has been nerfed. The damage, the bases, and even the dash had to have been nerfed. Its gotten so bad, that the spell literally does less damage than an auto attack at lvl 1. Granted, it does do AOE damage and resets your auto-attack, but still.

On top of the spell being too strong, it just really isn't fun to use. The animation is super clunky to use, and it doesn't have the same ooomph to it that the old Q had. Just look at the animation of the Q. Have you ever seen anyone from any movie or a fight or anything use a move that looks remotely like that? No, because its an animation that looks more like something that came out of Riot's wicked laboratory of game design focus groups than something that a feral hunter like Rengar would actually use. The old Q was a savage thrust, that felt awesome to use. Especially with Rengar's save roar when you used the spell. His new Q just looks and sounds lame.

TL;DR Rengar's new Q is an overloaded spell that lacks counterplay despite being a skillshot, and isn't satisfying to use at all. His old Q had similar levels of counterplay without being overloaded or promoting a bruiser playstyle, while also being a more fun to use spell.

8 Comments

Acheron163 votes

Rengar's entire kit promotes as Bruiser kit:

Passive: free damage and better scalling from kills- so he needs to build less damage (allows more resistances); Ferocity changes foster bruiser play style: surviving for longer so you can do more damage Q: AoE and high scalling - better in teamfights and makes him build less damage (allows more resistances) W: heals damage - the more HP you have, the better the trade offs (to a point, obviously, you're not a tank); CC cleanse also belongs to a Bruiser kit E: Utility R: reliable engage and damage directly scales with Raw AD - tell me how this wouldnt belong to a bruiser kit

undesirable team2 votes

rengars old q had no counterplay it was an auto idk dude

Doozku2 votes

At least it didn't do aoe damage or have a dash or instantly get bc and tld.

Rengooo1 votes

The AA reset and bonus damage on its own were fine. What became an issue was its synergy with his leap from stealth (unavoidable and couldn't see him coming) and it's synergy with crit.

Address those two things (which really wouldn't be that hard) and his Q all of a sudden really isn't that much of an issue.

KnifeCat1 votes

His Q isn't his main problem tbh. The main problem is Rengar being made into a fighter/bruiser/tank, rather than an assassin/hunter which is what Rengar is supposed to be about. a lot like how Maokai is now a mage, or how Malzahar is a support.

The main culprit is his ult.. You ain't hunting anything with that ult.. there is WAY too much counterplay and it forces Rengar to be a bruiser/tank instead, and to use ult merely to zone/go in team fights.. He had to be loaded with so much free dmg (passive, free crit) to make up for the ult changes. and with all that free dmg you can just build tanky and still 2 shot people..

New W is also better suited for a bruiser/tank champ..

Although i agree his Q looks and feels stupid, but otherwise it isn't anywhere near as big of an issue.

Doozku1 votes

Didn't say that his Q was the main issue. I wanted to continue making posts about his kit talking about his problems with his W probably being next. I could find something to talk about for basically all of his spells anyways lol.

Silverjust1 votes

wait, I thought his W would restore more if you are not tanky

v1k7or1 votes

They should just revert the Q and maybe remove it's crit and I would be happy and probably more than 50% of the Rengar community would be happy. I can say tho that I like and support everything with the rework except the Q change.

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