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A serious question from a tilted veteran...

The Highest Noon··7 votes·3,203 views

Will there ever be anything tangible to separate those who want to learn the game, improve their gameplay, and ultimately play the best of their abilities from those who just don't care and are playing for the luls? It's astounding to enter the competitive matchmaking mode "Ranked" and see someone who always wards their blind spots, never over-extends without vision of the enemy team on the map, builds according to the enemy champions and NOT the recommended item page, fills whatever role needs filling, basically everything you'd expect of someone in higher ELO ranks; grouped with players who've played less than 15 games, knowing only a single role, never warding, doesn't prioritize objectives, refuses to listen to pings, selfish, toxic, spends all game typing, "report them" "report this" "report that," and all-around negative. I don't really understand how this is still an issue past season 2. That said, 6 seasons later...

Why is the only requirement for playing "Ranked" that you're level 30? Why is the only requirement something that literally anybody who plays the game enough can achieve? TBH, the requirements should be much more specific than just "Play our game a lot," because even someone who loses every single match played with 0 kills, assists, vision, farm, and 100 deaths can play ranked.

I've made a similar post to this for the past four seasons, and it's just frustrating that nothing's being done. Considering that Riot understands this issue, it's about time that they create a competitive game mode that isn't just "For Fun" and is instead "For Skill."

Some suggestions of my own:

  • A certain number of Master 6 or above champions out of every role and position, mutually exclusive

  • A certain number of A or higher Grades within the past 25 games

  • Specific average point values depending on the role/position (Vision Score, damage healed, damage to champions/structures, damage taken, etc)

With these suggestions, the requirements can shift up or down depending on the Rank you're in, from Bronze to the top. That way the higher you climb, the more is required of you. Likewise, the lower you fall, the more room for mistakes as well as improvement.

The reason for the above three suggestions is that no matter what your opinion on it, Esports is a thing and just like any other sport, performance matters. Those who perform the best receive accolades and play-time, while those who don't are either benched or removed. It's a harsh lesson in competition that this game really doesn't account for. It may seem like it's punishing those who are underachieving, but that's not my point at all. There are those who can't quite play well despite trying their honest best, and I don't think this would necessarily "punish" their efforts, but motivate them and give them an actual direction towards improvement. Those who do wish to improve, know what to improve on because there's a tangible criteria.

This is just something I believe would benefit the players of this game as well as the game's environment as a whole. People who just want fun have For Fun modes to play, people who wish to truly compete have For Skill mode to compete in, and people who can't quite cut the competitive mode know why can't make it BUT know what they can do to improve.

I know this might come off as whiny and stupid, but I'd rather be whiny and stupid than toxic to people who more than likely don't deserve it; and to be honest it's 2018 and SOMETHING needs to change with Ranked. IIRC Riot promised quite a few improvements to matchmaking, ranked, and the report system; and I don't think that they've done enough to warrant a [zombie-brand-clap] . Insult me, downvote me, or offer your own suggestions. If you think I'm on to something, give this post the visibility that's needed.

74 Comments

TitanAnteus5 votes

You also need a large enough champion pool if I remember correctly. With the IP to BE change that means it'll generally be a while b4 new players can play ranked. Also, you'd be surprised at how many generally bad players there are in the game. Gold might not seem like much but a very small amount of players ever reach it.

The Highest Noon2 votes

{quoted}

You also need a large enough champion pool if I remember correctly. With the IP to BE change that means it'll generally be a while b4 new players can play ranked. Also, you'd be surprised at how many generally bad players there are in the game. Gold might not seem like much but a very small amount of players ever reach it.

Tbh I don't think I'd be surprised. No matter how great I could be playing, it's either selfish or purely unskilled players that keep me from a win. Don't get me wrong; I'm eager to accept my own mistakes and I adjust to them accordingly. I'm not against improving myself where it needs to be happen and can easily accept my screw-ups. The problem seems to be that every time I call someone else out, the generic response is "You're just blaming others because you're not good." I could go 22-0-30 and it's still "If you're so good you should've carried."

This game's entire player-outlook seems to encourage terrible players while insulting good players. I wish League of Legends, Riot and Player-base both, would just accept the fact that there's a large amount of BAD players and just as many GOOD players are forced to play with them.

The Sword Saint3 votes

Bad players won't consistently show up in your ranked games unless you are just as bad as them. That's how matchmaking works.

Going 20-0-30 and losing almost certainty means that you were doing several things wrong. A game where you are that fed and unkilled should end long before you ever get that score, and with that kind of weight to throw around it should be simple to force fights at objectives like baron that will allow you to decisively close out the game. If all you did to achieve that score was hang back in teamfights and use your cooldowns to secure kills while running away, that doesn't actually contribute to winning the game. If you are so fed, you should also be able to give farm and kills to your fellow carries or tanks to help them get ramped up rather then hoarding it for yourself. You going from 5 items to 6 items is not as efficient as a teamate going from 2 items to 3, or 4 items to 5.

Etc. Sometimes you just lose of course, about half the time really, but even so there are very very few times where you can realistically look at your game and not find ways you could have increased your odds.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T16:05:14.998+0000)

Bad players won't consistently show up in your ranked games unless you are just as bad as them. That's how matchmaking works.

Are you implying that there aren't bad players in every tier?

Because there are bad players in every tier.

The Sword Saint2 votes

There will always be players having a bad day, coming off of a long break, being unfortunately counterpicked or singled out by the enemy team, and yes even smurfs or throwers at any rank. They are only noise however and their impact is just to slow down how long it takes for players to reach their true current skill ranking. If you play enough games (100 or so) in a season and are no longer able to climb up past a certain point due to the noise then you have reached your deserved ranking.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T16:34:04.420+0000)

There will always be players having a bad day, coming off of a long break, being unfortunately counterpicked or singled out by the enemy team, and yes even smurfs or throwers at any rank. They are only noise however and their impact is just to slow down how long it takes for players to reach their true current skill ranking. If you play enough games (100 or so) in a season and are no longer able to climb up past a certain point due to the noise then you have reached your deserved ranking.

How is it that you feel no remorse in blaming people for the mistakes of their team? Do you seriously believe that opinion to be correct? Do you enjoy saying "Oh your team is bad? That's because you're where you belong haha" as if that makes any logical sense?

Better idea: Riot stops punishing good players for bad teammates.

The Sword Saint4 votes

Noone's blaming you for anything. A skill ranking in a video game is just a measure of your current ability, not a measure of your potential or how much effort you've put in. You respond like it's a grave insult to suggest that you need to play more games to climb if you actually are better than the players in your skill bracket.

There are 4 random players on your team and 5 on the enemy team. The enemy has a bigger chance of having trolls, feeders, leavers, throwers, etc. than you do. Statistically this means that as long as you aren't one of the trolls, feeders, leavers, throwers, etc. on your own team then you will obviously win more games than you lose in the long run as long as you actually are at least as skilled as other players at your rank. That's just math and it's been proven out in actual reality many times.

DeathBurst4 votes

No there aren't, cheating excluded. If you reached higher MMR, you didn't get there by magic, or by chance.

And even for lower MMR, there aren't really "bad" players either, in the sense that all players down there are just equally bad (or good) as each other. If they weren't, they'd climb.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

No there aren't, cheating excluded. If you reached higher MMR, you didn't get there by magic, or by chance.

And even for lower MMR, there aren't really "bad" players either, in the sense that all players down there are just equally bad (or good) as each other. If they weren't, they'd climb.

I just came from a game with three supports and no junglers on the enemy team. They won without even a fight from our team. Wanna know how?

Our jungler had no presence, no objective awareness, wouldn't help losing lanes. Tell me again how "all players down there are just equally bad" and I'll point out the fact that every good player is held down by the bad. It's amazing that this is even a debate in 2018.

PEOPLE CANNOT CLIMB WHEN THEY'RE CONSTANTLY BURDENED BY TERRIBLE PLAYERS.

DeathBurst4 votes

And I just came from a game where I fed my ass off and was 0-6 at 10 minutes. If you were in that game, you would have blamed me and complained about how I'm holding you back and you can't climb because of players like me. And yet, I have a 53% winrate overall, I won the next two games and I'm now in Gold4, after finishing my placements in Silver3 and steadily climbing from there since then. Fact is, I had an off game, but I deserve the ranking I'm at. And all the bad players couldn't hold me down in Silver.

Tens of thousands of players every season make the climb from Bronze to Gold, and aren't held down. I personally did it once in S6, three different times in S7, and once more this year in season 8, and I wasn't held down. Why are you? Because you're at the same level as all those players "holding you down", that's why. I have nothing to prove to you, a random stranger on the Internet. If I spend my time in this thread trying to convince you, it's for your own sake. Open your goddamn eyes and understand why you're stuck, and maybe you can get unstuck, but trust me, it's not because of other people... Probably you don't do the same mistakes as them that you notice so easily, but you still do something else wrong if you don't win. Find what.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

And I just came from a game where I fed my ass off and was 0-6 at 10 minutes.

Remember that statement I made about score being irrelevant to the overall game? If you're 0-6 and actually doing what you should be doing, guess what? You're not the problem. If you're 0-6 because you're constantly trying to fight that same champion who kills you every single time without even an effort on their part, THEN is it your fault. There's a difference between dying and and feeding, a difference that Riot outlines fairly well.

And you say tens of thousands? Where's the graph for that?

DeathBurst3 votes

I definitely was the problem... that game. Point is, no one is playing perfectly every game, but if you're better than people around you, you still climb over time, even if you have a bad game once in a while. But focusing on other people's bad games won't make you win.

And according to OP.GG ( http://euw.op.gg/statistics/tier/ ) there are 180K players in Gold5 right now. They didn't all climb there from Bronze or low Silver, of course, but even if only one in 10 climbed from down there, that's already more than ten thousand, and we are faaar from the end of the season. It's not a secret, people have to climb every year, because every year you end up lower than the previous year at the end of your Placements, and you should know it perfectly well if you are a "veteran". And every year, people do climb without issues.

Have you heard about people complaining they managed to climb a previous year, but unable to do it again the following year, because they are held down? Of course not. Because if you are really better, it's easy to climb. The only people who complain about being held down are the one who never did the climb, and with all likelihood it's because they are not better than the people around them.

Soraka Rules3 votes

{quoted}

No there aren't, cheating excluded. If you reached higher MMR, you didn't get there by magic, or by chance.

And even for lower MMR, there aren't really "bad" players either, in the sense that all players down there are just equally bad (or good) as each other. If they weren't, they'd climb.

all your posts are well said

DeathBurst3 votes

I could go 22-0-30 and it's still "If you're so good you should've carried."

Well, because that's the case. Of course there are more polite way to say it, and a lot of higher MMR players can act like huge assholes with inflated egos, but that doesn't mean they aren't right. How did you manage to lose with such a lead? Getting kills isn't a goal in itself, it's just a mean to an end. If you're 22-0-30 and still lose in the end, it must mean you're good at getting a lead, and bad at using it.

Calling someone else out is NEVER useful. A given "someone else" will cause you one or two losses ever, at most, and you'll probably never meet them again. If you don't climb, it's always your own fault. Take a Diamond player and put them in your game, they'll have to deal with the same bad "someone else" than you, but they'll still win, most of the time. So if you don't win when a better player could win, it's still your fault, no matter how bad your team-mates are.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

it must mean you're good at getting a lead, and bad at using it.

Because this isn't a team game where there are 4 other players who do whatever the fuck they choose/however the fuck they're capable of playing, am I right? This isn't a game where the abilities of one player are outweighed by the combined efforts of the rest of the team, right?

Mmmhm. Elo hell must be a myth. Except it's not.

DeathBurst3 votes

Are you claiming that the other 4 players coordinate their efforts to make sure your team lose the game while you're the only one trying to win? Yeah, the abilities of one player can be outweighed by the "coordinated efforts of the rest of the team", but no, the rest of your team isn't "coordinating to throw your lead".

And no, Elo Hell doesn't exist. Give me any account in the depth of Bronze 5 and I'll bring it to Silver 2 with a 60% winrate, more or less. Beyond Silver 2, we're getting closer to my own skill level, so it's harder for me to carry, but give it to a Diamond level player instead, and he will carry in Silver just as well as I did in Bronze, if not better. Elo Hell is a myth, a pretext. Don't fool yourself.

Soraka Rules5 votes

You pretty much summed up why this competitive match making mode has different ranking/divisions. If you're consistent and you're not the sole purpose of why you're losing games then you should climb eventually. I don't mean to sound mean but if you're stuck in Silver then you most likely belong there. I don't consider myself a great player, but I cant picture myself ever being in Silver if I just play Soraka.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ella Cinderella,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-19T15:47:52.134+0000)

You pretty much summed up why this competitive match making mode has different ranking/divisions. If you're consistent and you're not the sole purpose of why you're losing games then you should climb eventually. I don't mean to sound mean but if you're stuck in Silver then you most likely belong there. I don't consider myself a great player, but I cant picture myself ever being in Silver if I just play Soraka.

Yes, because it makes sense to blame the people who are stuck on teams with overall terrible players.

I'm so glad you didn't read the part where I said this is exactly what people say lol

Soraka Rules3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-04-19T16:13:00.786+0000)

Yes, because it makes sense to blame the people who are stuck on teams with overall terrible players.

I'm so glad you didn't read the part where I said this is exactly what people say lol

What are you talking about? So you're saying you are too good for Silver but bad teams are holding you back? I find that hard to believe since you have a 49% wr in silver. Most likely means you belong there. System working as intended.

As a 'vet' who played since Season 1 and has been Silver for a while, I'll have you know the gap between silver and high gold is pretty big. You most likely belong there if you're stuck. Time to improve

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ella Cinderella,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T17:03:55.242+0000)

What are you talking about? So you're saying you are too good for Silver but bad teams are holding you back? I find that hard to believe since you have a 49% wr in silver. Most likely means you belong there. System working as intended.

As a 'vet' who played since Season 1 and has been Silver for a while, I'll have you know the gap between silver and high gold is pretty big. You most likely belong there if you're stuck. Time to improve

The gap between Silver and Gold is "Are my teammates good? If yes, GOLD FINALLY! If no, back to Bronze I guess."

Soraka Rules3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T17:08:34.933+0000)

The gap between Silver and Gold is "Are my teammates good? If yes, GOLD FINALLY! If no, back to Bronze I guess."

The gap between silver and gold is- Oh I have Silver mmr? Guess I'm going to constantly win lane bottom and carry as a Soraka. You do realize that the enemy team also has silver mmr players. Riot doesn't just target you with bad players. Learn to be a bigger influence in the game.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ella Cinderella,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T17:13:54.025+0000)

The gap between silver and gold is- Oh I have Silver mmr? Guess I'm going to constantly win lane bottom and carry as a Soraka. You do realize that the enemy team also has silver mmr players. Riot doesn't just target you with bad players. Learn to be a bigger influence in the game.

It feels like you just don't understand the way Matchmaking works. It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of luck. Those who win are those who are grouped with players who are better than the other team. It doesn't matter what your skill level is; what matters is the skill level of the group as a whole. You could be Challenger or Master and guess what? If the rest of your team are bronze but the enemy team's average is Silver, they'll win 8 times out of ten--the two that the Master player's team won are because it took 8 losses for the Bronze players to realize they should probably listen to the better player.

It's not about how good you are, it's about how good the other team is. And it sucks. I'll mention that there is no individual method of matchmaking. You lose because of unlucky grouping and guess what? Your next group will DEFINITELY be worse than the one you were just with. But it's ok, because the enemy team might be worse than your own.

The Sword Saint4 votes

This is just inaccurate. If you are a tier or two above the players in your game's you will stomp everyone so hard and get so fed that it isn't funny. You are describing the classical 'elo hell' concept which has been dubunked constantly throughout the whole history of this and every other competitive team based game. Many streamers have even made it a point to create a new low ranked account and stream themselves stomping their way back up to around their true ranking super hard, where it suddenly becomes much more difficult to have that big of an impact because the difference in skill between them and the other players in the game is much smaller.

It has been proven over and over again. If you can't climb it's because you aren't performing well enough to do so, or you have not played enough games to overcome the statistical noise of 'bad luck'.

MajKaj4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ella Cinderella,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-19T15:47:52.134+0000)

You pretty much summed up why this competitive match making mode has different ranking/divisions. If you're consistent and you're not the sole purpose of why you're losing games then you should climb eventually. I don't mean to sound mean but if you're stuck in Silver then you most likely belong there. I don't consider myself a great player, but I cant picture myself ever being in Silver if I just play Soraka.

Thank you. I wish with all my heart that more people can come to this realization.

The Sword Saint4 votes

Your matches are filled with players who perform at a similar level to you, not with teamates who are trying as hard as you or take it as seriously as you. The fact that people who don't play as seriously as you are at your matchmaking rating for ranked should be an indication that you are maybe overspecialized in the things you think are important and are perhaps missing something that those 'non serious' players are doing that allows them to perform just as well as you overall.

Often this is because those non serious players are just performing far better mechanically or have a better eye for decisive game ending timings and positioning to go in for team fights... another common one is that the people you are turning your nose down at are the type who take big risks for big rewards, and if those risks win them more than half of their games then it doesn't matter in the long run if those risks lose them almost half of their games - a 51%+ winrate is all that is needed to climb in ranking. Even if their actions directly throw the game you're in sometimes they are still winning in the long run if those actions work out more often then not.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-19T15:59:55.089+0000)

Your matches are filled with players who perform at a similar level to you, not with teamates who are trying as hard as you or take it as seriously as you. The fact that people who don't play as seriously as you are at your matchmaking rating for ranked should be an indication that you are maybe overspecialized in the things you think are important and are perhaps missing something that those 'non serious' players are doing that allows them to perform just as well as you overall.

Often this is because those non serious players are just performing far better mechanically or have a better eye for decisive game ending timings and positioning to go in for team fights... another common one is that the people you are turning your nose down at are the type who take big risks for big rewards, and if those risks win them more than half of their games then it doesn't matter in the long run if those risks lose them almost half of their games - a 51%+ winrate is all that is needed to climb in ranking. Even if their actions directly throw the game you're in sometimes they are still winning in the long run if those actions work out more often then not.

If you think that everyone you're grouped with perform at your level, I've got bad news for you...

DeathBurst4 votes

It's not just "everyone you're grouped with perform at your level", it's either that OR "you're grouped with people below your level so you should have an easy time carrying".

If you can't carry, then yes, you're grouped with people who perform at your level.

DeathBurst4 votes

It's honestly sad how you blind yourself. You claim you want to learn and improve, that you want to play "for skill" and not "for fun". Everyone in this thread is trying to explain to you that the very first step on the path to improvement is to take responsibility for your ranking and to look at what you are doing wrong yourself, and that blaming others is useless.

But even if you don't believe us all, fact is, you simply can't do anything about other players. Even if you believe you are worth Gold and are held down in Silver by other people, you can't change that. Maybe you're right, you are really worth Gold and you are just extremely unlucky. But you don't have a choice, you can't control your luck. You only have one solution: get even better, become worth Plat, and then you'll finally be able to carry your way out of Silver.

That's the crux of it. However you feel about it, your only solution is to get better yourself.

(Because no, Riot won't implement your suggestions, for the obvious reasons that everyone in this thread is trying to explain to you. You're free to not believe us, but you have to admit you won't change Riot's mind with your threads.)

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

It's honestly sad how you blind yourself.

But even if you don't believe us all, fact is, you simply can't do anything about other players.

It's hilarious how you first insult me for my point of view and then you outright support it. Hilarious and probably part of this reason this game's matchmaking system is so terrible. You just don't know what you want to think so you say whatever you think works at the time.

Ended the day with a game where I helped everyone get ahead and we lost because the rest of my team wouldn't push objectives, group, ward, the usual.

[zombie-brand-clap]

DeathBurst4 votes
  1. I don't insult you.
  2. I don't support your view. I don't think it's right, but I mentioned "even if". It's in that quote you made right there. "Even if" you're right, you don't have a choice.
The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

  1. I don't insult you.
  2. I don't support your view. I don't think it's right, but I mentioned "even if". It's in that quote you made right there. "Even if" you're right, you don't have a choice.

Saying "you blind yourself" is definitely an insult to both my intelligence and my experiences by implying that they're incorrect, and even if I don't get a choice, "you simply can't do anything about other players" supports my point.

Neither of which are something to argue about, though lol

DeathBurst3 votes

It's an insult only if it's wrong. If it's true, you'd be a fool to take offense from someone simply stating the truth. And given the sheer number of people who all say the same thing here, it's likely that's the truth. Do you think there is a conspiracy of lucky Gold+ players gathered just to put you down? Of course not.

And no, "you simply can't do anything about other players" does not support your point. It does not imply that they will decide the outcome of the match for you, or that they will hold you down. It simply states that you have no control over their actions. **You **determine whether you climb or not, not the other players you can't control.

But if you haven't understood at this point, you never will. I'll say it again one last time: if you want to change the situation, focus on what actions you can take. Find your mistakes, get better, improve, and you'll climb, as all those other players did. Or keep blaming your teams, and you'll stay where you are. THAT choice is yours to make. Magically getting better team-mates is not an option, though.

I won't keep repeating myself anymore, I'm out.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

I won't keep repeating myself anymore, I'm out.

I was wondering whether you were repeating yourself because you want your words to be true or you expect them to magically be true. I do so love your "It works for this group of people so it should work for everyone!" mindset with all this. That's what white people say all the time about blacks.

How closed-minded can you be when your only logical rebuttle is "It should work for everyone because some people say it works for them?"

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

DeathBurst2 votes

That comparison is so out of place... And it's not "some people did it one time by luck", it's "all the people who did it once can do it consistently". If it was just luck, people who were lucky one year wouldn't be the next one after the season reset, and vice-versa. You even have tons of streamers/youtubers who do it on screen, and who EXPLAIN how they do it.

Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wVFjPdKrSY&list=PLvYbWbiZnQ0e95Fcy0Dzj4p2DvQf-QdMR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLI6-n9FVsY&list=PLWLlskw0fR7zP1-yQ7F8H1McDvrw2P17v <--- This one starts in Bronze 3 and is now in Silver 4, easy peasy.

(It's playlists, not single videos.)

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

That comparison is so out of place...

It's not out of place, it fits perfectly with a different scenario. Just because some are fortunate doesn't mean everyone is. Elo Hell exists for a reason. It's not a myth, it's a tangible challenge.

Even if you point out that many people do it and explain how, guess what? There isn't a single person who believes the rest of your team have nothing to do with climbing. Everyone I've ever asked or seen have said "It depends on what kind of team you're given."

DeathBurst1 votes

I didn't say (yet) it's inadequate, I said it's out of place. You're comparing a real life problem that kill hundreds of people every year, not to mention living in poverty, housing issue, etc. with losing in a video game. That's out of place.

But it's also inadequate, because it's not a question of being "fortunate", like white privilege is. It's a question of improving and getting good enough.

For the second paragraph, I said I won't be repeating myself anymore, but it's still bullshit just as much as before.

The Highest Noon1 votes

If you don't see the fortune in having a good team, apologize for making me waste my time with your nonsense.

MajKaj4 votes

The fact that Boosting exists just disproves the entire idea of peoples teams/luck holding them back. People don't pay other players to get lucky on their accounts they pay them because they're better so they will win the games the owner of said account could not win and get the account to a rank the owner could not achieve.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

The fact that Boosting exists just disproves the entire idea of peoples teams/luck holding them back. People don't pay other players to get lucky on their accounts they pay them because they're better so they will win the games the owner of said account could not win and get the account to a rank the owner could not achieve.

I thought they pay them because there are champs that are objectively broken and make winning easy when you know how to exploit their brokenness?

Automated Riven2 votes

No. Certain boosters use specific champions because they are super easy to win quickly. But boosters get paid because they are simply better.

Soraka Rules1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2018-04-23T03:13:56.242+0000)

I thought they pay them because there are champs that are objectively broken and make winning easy when you know how to exploit their brokenness?

Think of climbing like this- Its not about luck, as luck plays a very small percentage of your wins. Your consistence and influence as one of the 5 members of your team is what will show in the long run. If you want to climb, you're consistent/better than your rank, and you take the effort to learning then you have only 4 randoms to screw you up and the enemy team has 5 (hence the term 1v9).

When you have a winrate over 50% in any division/ranking, statistically you have a greater influence in the game. If you put me in Silver for example, expect me to deny vision, out trade enemy supports, and pretty much be a step ahead. Put me in Gold1 to Plat, and thats where I'm currently building my strategy and skills, so the lane goes pretty evenly and I rely more on my adc to win/lose (my influence is smaller because its closer to my skill level and the enemy skill level)

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ella Cinderella,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=000e00000001,timestamp=2018-04-23T16:55:56.412+0000)

one of the 5 members

And there's the heart of the matter. One person cannot consistently win a game that four others lose. The numbers alone support this. Likewise, you can argue all day that if you try your best and consistent play well then you will climb, but this isn't a movie. You're not the main character of some anime plotline.

If you're the only one on your team that's winning that means there's only one person on the enemy team losing. Sure, there's a possibility that the enemy team will make a mistake, but that would completely dissolve that statement of "Its not about luck."

DeathBurst3 votes

I'm sorry, but you must be missing something. If your "perfect" player is matched with your "all around negative player", it means that they both win as many games at the end of the day. The negative players must have stronger points than you give them credit for, and/or the good player must have some issues that you don't notice, they probably don't win their games the same way, but they do win as many as each other, or they wouldn't be matched together in the first place. They are as skilled as each other.

Also, your suggestion to have different requirement levels based on what Tiers you're in? Not a good idea. So, I've just enough Mastery 6 champs for Gold, but I win my games, I got in Promo Series, and I win them too, and I'm promoted to Plat. Great! And suddenly, I'm punished and I can't play Ranked anymore because I don't have enough Mastery 6 champs for Plat? Ridiculous. I'm punished for playing "too good" and winning "too much" compared to the metrics you use. But if I did win my games nonetheless, what it means is that your metrics aren't good, not that I'm the problem.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

Great! And suddenly, I'm punished and I can't play Ranked anymore because I don't have enough Mastery 6 champs for Plat?

Is that what I said? I'm pretty sure I used the term "can" which, by definition of the english language, means everything I listed doesn't have to shift. Glad you found a single irellevant point to argue, though. I'm also glad that you think that tier requirements are more of a punishment than being forced to team up with people well below your individual capabilities, though.

DeathBurst4 votes

Glad you found a single irellevant point to argue, though.

How can you argue in such bad faith? And totally ignore the first half of everything I said?

And being teamed up with people below your capabilities means you are also teamed AGAINST people below your capabilities, so no, it's not a punishment because you should have an easy time carrying. And if you don't, it means they aren't really below your abilities, so it's not a punishment either.

The Highest Noon1 votes

"It's the team's fault when you win but it's your fault that you lose."

I don't understand that mindset but then again I'm stuck in Bronzilver tier.

The Sword Saint3 votes

You aren't responsible for win or loss, you are part of a team and merely make a contribution to the outcome. That contribution is the only part of the game you have any control over, so the only useful way to look at any win or loss is to examine your own actions and consider what you could do better next time to improve your contribution - and therefor your chances of winning. Individual games are irrelevant in the long run, you get to your true ranking over many many games and what determines how fast you rise or fall is how large of a contribution you are making to winning on average rather than in any specific game.

This is a bit long winded though, so most people tend to just say 'focus only on yourself and your own mistakes if you want to climb' because it gets the main idea across quickly.

UpDownLeftRightAB1 votes

You can't stop your teammates from committing suicide. Focusing on yourself doesn't improve their need to die. It's about the frustration that comes from a game that would be easily winnable with your contributions getting outweighed by a teammates contributions to the enemy team. If they had played more seriously, less drunk, less high, maybe they wouldn't feel the need to commit suicide every 1-2 minutes. Since this season is more geared towards team-play than ANY other, WHO you gets matters.

The Sword Saint3 votes

Individual games don't matter. Over time the amount of impact you are able to have will influence whether you rise or fall in ranking. Yes it's frustrating in some games when you see a teammate do something you wouldn't do that causes you to have a disadvantage, but the same thing happens to the enemy team about as often in the long run. Everything other than your own performance is just statistical noise in the long run. If you are truly better than those around you in your ranking then you will be the deciding factor in your own games often enough that you will win more games than you lose in the long run.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aoN4mqvg,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-04-19T16:31:03.471+0000)

This is a bit long winded though, so most people tend to just say 'focus only on yourself and your own mistakes if you want to climb' because it gets the main idea across quickly.

Yes, because it's working on myself definitely stops yasuo adc right? It definitely gets top river warded and keeps them from over-extending, right? It definitely increases jungle presence. It definitely makes every single bad player i'm grouped with play better, right? It makes them suddenly decide to be a non-selfish player. :) Yeah, that advice is about as bad as those people who blame women for getting raped. I have no control over what others do, and like I already said it's about time we stop blaming the people grouped with bad players and start faulting bad players for the bad plays and acknowledge that there are good people grouped with bad teams.

I literally just came from a loss where my team constantly threw objectives to farm jungle. I'm so glad this is my fault and if I'd just did better we'd have won. Time for me to watch some Youtube videos on how to be a better player and then I'll find out how to control the minds of my teammates so they do better too!

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