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Diana Theorycrafting

Balgoth··1 votes·1,111 views

TL;DR AP/AS/CDR vs. Armor/MR/Mana/CDR/AP Assassin build vs. Fighter build Which role does she fill better? I make the argument that she fills the Fighter/Mage (sustained damage can tank) class better than the traditional Assassin/Mage (bursty AP glass cannon) class. What are your thoughts?

Ever since the AP item update Nashor's tooth has become a core item on many an Azir and Diana. In pro play you almost always see it being built as her first item because the additional attack speed increases her passive proc and the CDR allows her to spam abilities. Something I always found interesting though, is that her passive gives her a natural permanent 20% increased attack speed. I always thought that was weird, because if they wanted her to have more attack speed why wouldn't they just increase her base stats right? After digging into it a bit I began to wonder if Riot intentionally wants to steer her away from attack speed builds. She has extremely low base attack speed, and is in a big tie for the 4th lowest attack speed in the game. Meaning that any additional attack speed buffs will have a smaller benefit on her than any champion with higher base attack speed. To make up for this she has an additional 20% attack speed at all levels via her passive. Because she cannot build AD like most fighters, she relies on the high level 1 attack speed to proc her passive and last hit minions without using her spells, which without items quickly drain her mana in all stages of the game.

After playing over 200 games on Diana I tend to think that her passive damage is not intended to be spammed as often as possible via attack speed builds, but is meant as a way to last hit minions in lane w/o mana and as an opportunistic way to deal a huge burst of damage if timed with a successful Q skill shot. Instead of prioritizing AS/AP/CDR I am starting to think she is best if you spread her build over Armor/MR/Mana/CDR/AP. This would be in line with her "fighter" title as her primary role, as opposed to her current mage/assassin role. I mostly play her top, and have experimented with tank items like Frozen Heart and RoA for the CDR, increased W shield value, and increased mana pool for sustained combo spam. At max CDR and level she can pull off her Q R combo every 3.67 seconds, which when she is tanky + Lich Bane can be considered a sustained damage (definition of a fighter) as opposed to the traditional glass cannon assassin build that she is most commonly seen with. Also, the longer you survive a fight the more you can proc her passive. So if you compare the amount of passive procs she gets from surviving a fight 10 seconds longer with no AS items to dying quicker with AS items they may actually be pretty similar.

Discuss.

14 Comments

Lord Azır2 votes

Diana does way more damage if you go a bursty build item 3020 item 3157 item 3089 item 3135 item 3100 item 3285. The only reason Pros use Nashors on Diana is for split pushing, not for team fighting. They take summoner 12 and can split push for days with it.

Balgoth1 votes

She definitely is a good split pusher. I like that her passive will proc for partial damage on towers. I still wonder if Lich bane is superior to Nashoor's for split pushing because if you cast her spells to clear nearby minions you can proc spell blade on the tower.

Both great builds! I may add an Abyssal Scepter to the defensive one for more MR, but the rest of those items are essentially what I consider "core" on her as a bruiser mage. Oh and I also tend to grab boots of lucidity with Frozen Heart for max CDR to proc the lich bane for a repetitive burstiness.

Lord Azır2 votes

{quoted}

She definitely is a good split pusher. I like that her passive will proc for partial damage on towers. I still wonder if Lich bane is superior to Nashoor's for split pushing because if you cast her spells to clear nearby minions you can proc spell blade on the tower.

Both great builds! I may add an Abyssal Scepter to the defensive one for more MR, but the rest of those items are essentially what I consider "core" on her as a bruiser mage. Oh and I also tend to grab boots of lucidity with Frozen Heart for max CDR to proc the lich bane for a repetitive burstiness.

I prefer running scaling CDR blues instead of lucidity boots. They just don't do much for you. But yeah item 3001 instead of item 3116 if they are AP stacked.

Balgoth1 votes

That's a good point on the runes. I was running scaling MR like I do on most of my top laners. If I switch for the scaling CDR blues and buy merc treads then at level 18 for 200g I have the same stats plus tenacity. Thanks for the input.

Angry Monster1 votes

not the only reason, The CDR is pretty much necessary when you do fight.

Lord Azır2 votes

On a side note if you haven't tried this Diana build I suggest you should. item 3111 item 3027 item 3110 item 3157item 3100 item 3116

Bhagswag1 votes

I love tank Diana.

Recommend me a build path with these items. First back? Starting item? Etc. Thanks.

Lord Azır1 votes

{quoted}

I love tank Diana.

Recommend me a build path with these items. First back? Starting item? Etc. Thanks.

Since Diana is a melee champ she's gonna take a lot of early abuse trying to cs. Safest bet is to start item 2003 item 2003 item 2004 item 2041. Obviously the first item to rush would always be item 3010. Gives you a lot of sustain + survivability in the lane. Into item 3027.

Against AD lane: item 3027 > item 3020 > item 3110 > item 3157 > item 3100 > item 3116

Against AP lane: item 3027 > item 3111 > item 3001 > item 3110 > item 3100 > item 3157

Against heavy AP team: item 3027 > item 3158 > item 3001 > item 3100 > item 3157 > item 3102

item 3027 > item 3111 > item 3001 > item 3115 > item 3157 > item 3102

Bhagswag1 votes

Hmm. Never Void staff or Liandry's?

Lord Azır1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm. Never Void staff or Liandry's?

I can't imagine item 3151 being a good item on Diana. You aren't trying to be a tank shredder. No void staff though, you don't need it. With the tankyness and the lich bane or nashors you are out putting so much sustained damage it's gonna do a ton either way. Void Staff just makes you more vulnerable and is only good for more burst but that's not the point of this build.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I apologize for not reading the enitre post, but i read the first part about fighter and assassin and i dont think you should limit yourself to 1 play style. If you can find a way to play her and build her in different ways and still be effective, then do it. I play a shit load of Rengar (particularly on my smurf) and although the go to build for him is full assassin, in some scenarios i find myself building him as a bruiser or closer to a tank because I don't see full assassin as a good choice vs certain line ups/team comps.

TL;DR Use Diana's flexibility to your advantage!!!

Balgoth1 votes

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I definitely don't think it's the only way to play her. I just rarely see her built bruiser and am questioning if that is actually the optimal way to build her :)

Dreadlocks2 votes

Ive seen it work, and like i said, it might not be popular but it CAN work VERY well. If you play a champion enough you will know in each situation/team comp what build will give you the best results. Sometimes its better to play Diana in that bruiser fashion. If you were to play her with the assassin build in EVERY game, chances are you will have some games you hard carry, and others you feed out of your mind because you cant do your job. But if you built her bruiser, you would've still been useful.

I'm glad more players are reaching out for "non-standard" builds to achieve the common goal: WIN

MacDeath1 votes

Theorycrafting

did dis once >_> Created following itembuilt for Diana --item 3158 item 3115 item 3116 item 3157 item 3001item 3089 Because I thought: Yay much tank much damage much cdr much op :O

Vladimir looked dis way item 3158item 3116 item 3065 item 3143 item 3157 item 3001 cuz much tank much damage >_>

i don't know why, it never really worked out (espacially Vlad)

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