Muramana / Essence Reaver suggestion

Balgoth·Dec 19, 2014·13 votes·1,722 views

I played around with Muramana and essence reaver recently, and I personally felt that the essence reaver passive was a bit too underwhelming considering the cost of the item. I think it would be cool to take the essence reaver passive and give it to Muramana while it's active is turned off. So on the active would cost mana to deal additional physical damage, and off it would allow you to slowly rebuild the mana you just burned. Or would that just be OP? Thoughts?

14 Comments

Ale non è maleDec 19, 20143 votes

Too damn OP The thing is, Muramana and ER should just be for different kind of champs, they shouldn't be merged. Muramana should be for those cAD champs that need to spam a lot of skills (Urgot being the example, but you could add Blue EZ too), ER should be for the champs with low mana champs pool to allow them to regain mana in the early-mid game while their scaling does not solve their mana problem The problem of ER is that is just too expensive vs the other main damage item to properly fit his niche, and Muramana is too niche of an item

Duke AnaxDec 19, 20142 votes

I like the idea, but how about twist it a little towards the active, to not have both items do exactly the same:

Toggle off: Muramana restores 3% of your missing mana.

Lord DusteonDec 19, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZNIEE4KV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-19T20:32:24.558+0000)

I like the idea, but how about twist it a little towards the active, to not have both items do exactly the same:

Toggle off: Muramana restores 3% of your missing mana.

Like, just toggling makes it restore mana? Since then the entire point of Muramana would be pressing whichever slot it's in as fast as possible to toggle it for free mana.

Duke AnaxDec 19, 20142 votes

Ok I didn't explicitey repeat it in my post, but we were talking about on hit effects.

what I meant, was: toggle on: use mana for damage on hit toggle of: restore mana on hit.

Somewhat like Aatrox does with his health.

TussDec 19, 20141 votes

That's what Essence Reaver does though and the suggestion is to give Muramana the mana restoration passive instead like you described.

Duke AnaxDec 20, 20141 votes

Ok I confused myself there somewhere.

Yeah essence reaver get's a predetermined amount per hit.

So Muramana should have essencesteal when turned off. (return %damage as mana)

SammystormDec 19, 20142 votes

this is quite honestly a terrible idea. The champs that buy muramana will still buy muramana but will just get more benefit.

CindikleDec 19, 20142 votes

ER's problem is that for the cost it takes far too long to get it when most champions would want in. In lane. It needs to build out of an item that also assists in mana regen. They seemed to of had an item that upgraded out of Vamp Scepter that never made it. This item had a somewhat weaker version of the passive.

Far as the cost goes. It grants a lot of AD. And the cost is about the same as other Life Steal items. In terms of stats for cost, the item is fine. But the build path is a mess.

Both items server different rolls. Mura benefits those with single target abilities or use basic attacks more. ER is better on those who use abilities in general more. Those who would build ER wont be rushing it. And by the time they would of finished it they are at a point where they can manage their mana easily enough. Only real reason to get it is if you want the CDR with those stats on the same item. And 10% CDR isn't exactly that inviting.

FantasySniperDec 19, 20142 votes

Soul Sickle was poorly implemented within the PBE, apparently didn't even upgrade into ER. They also shouldn't have built it with Lifesteal on it.

I just really want them to implement Forbidden Idol into the build path. It isn't hard at all, the cost won't change, and there are only benefits to be had.

RebonackDec 19, 20142 votes

HOW TO MAKE REAVER LESS AWFUL

Builds out of Cata and Brutalize.

UNIQUE passive: killing minions and monsters heals your HP/MP for (smallish amount), champion kills and assists heal your HP/MP for (larger amount).

There you go. Now it's a solid mid-game item that can actually do what it's supposed to be doing.

20748556DEL1Dec 19, 20141 votes

No that's terrible

Linna ExcelDec 20, 20141 votes

I think that idea might be a little too OP.

ER needs to be fixed. Partly in build path, partly in the fact the full version isn't as good as BT.

CerbearusDec 20, 20141 votes

The whole reason for Essence Reaver in the first place is to give some sort of mana return to AD champions OUTSIDE of Muramana.

MessaigaDec 20, 20141 votes

I don't think Murumana needs this. It's already strong on a few champions that have it as a core item (Jayce, Yorick, Urgot, Blue Ez) and it's good that it is a niche item, though a while back there was talk about reworking the item (the community did not welcome this change), so they decided to scrap those changes for a while and instead buffed Manamune/Murumana a bit (Pickaxe in build path instead of 2 long swords, increased AD to 25 from 20). I kind of enjoy some of the idea of what they were going for though, there was just a few things about it that didn't work well with the champions that'd build it.

Their idea of reworking murumana was this:

[added] passive :: gains +10 bonus true damage (increased by 2% of maximum Mana if any number of azure stacks are active). also gain 1% attack speed for every stack of azure active. [remade] active :: spend 60 mana to gain 10 stacks of azure, then doubles the current mana cost and stack gain of this active. azure has a fixed duration of 9 seconds, and when it expires this active resets its mana cost and stack gain and then goes on cooldown (30 second cooldown).

The awe passive (the one that grants AD) was intact, and here's how the active worked. The first activation gave you 10% attack speed and bonus true damage equal to your bonus from Awe, and all activations after increased only attack speed (2nd activation granting 20% attack speed bonus on top of the first, 3rd activation granting 40% attack speed bonus on top of the first two, etc). It was a good idea but the true damage didn't work well on champions other than ADC's that could potentially buy Murumana because they would buy lots of armor penetration.

I feel as though the concept was good (spend mana to get stacks which enhance your damage output), but they did it in a way that only benefited one party (basically Ezreal, Lucian, Sivir, maybe Koggles). A few changes that would have worked to make the changes work on either type of champion that would build it (I'm going to put in a modified version of the above box quote):

Mana Regen increased to 50% base from 25% (on both murumana and manamune). [remade] active - Azure: Spend 20% of your current mana to gain bonus physical damage equal to 45% of mana spent (on-hit and on single target abilities that deal physical damage). Also gain 60% attack speed. Azure lasts 10 seconds, 60 second cooldown.

Basically I scrapped the passive to make the active more powerful and reliable (also removed abuse cases where your attack speed is absurdly high). True damage was also scrapped in favor of physical damage to make those that build armor penetration not feel left out. Damage is overall increased in comparison to now (at 2000 mana with none spent, active grants 180 physical damage for 10 seconds along with attack speed so you can make better use of it, costing 400 mana). The damage does not decrease over the duration of the buff allowing you to use your mana freely, though if you **activate **Azure at low mana you don't get quite as much damage from it.