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Armor is Fine.

KING XXXI··9 votes·1,304 views

Yes, I know. There will be a lot of silver players who just lost to a Zed/Yasuo in normals and will instantly down vote this post. If you're one of these people, please do so and move on.

Tanks are hovering at around a ~49% winrate, Seeker's Armguard has a low 50% winrate for people who build it, and Ninja Tabi is basically not even built anymore. Armor is seemingly useless for people who build it, and all hope is lost. Or is it? What can account for all the complaints? Why are winrates so low for anyone who builds armor?

The problem with winrates is that they don't account for the separation of player bases. For example, tank mains usually never play bruisers and brusier mains usually never tanks. What ends up happening is, whenever one particular player base was doing bad, Riot ended up giving compensation buffs so that their winrates would match the other classes.

Tanks were one particular instance of this. Tank mains were generally significantly worse than their brusier counterparts, and in turn, Riot gave buffs to these champions in order to compensate for the lack of skill coming tank players at the time. The unintended consequence of this was the most disastrous meta in League of Legend's history, the Season 6 tank meta.

I'm sure you many of you remember the days when the only viable picks at the time were Maokai Maokai, Poppy Poppy, Shen Shen, etc. Picking anything else would be essentially trolling. The days when champions like Akali Akali, Ekko Ekko, Fizz Fizz, Yasuo Yasuo, would take grasp and fully one shot you with nothing but Sunfire Cape item 3068 and Iceborn Gauntlet item 3025, and the days when Cinderhulk item 1401 was the only acceptable option in jungle.

Tank meta was in full swing. Players were more outraged than ever, there were constant complaints on Gameplay boards and Reddit telling Riot to fix the tank meta, all thanks to Riot concluding that, instead of players needing to get better at tank champions, tank items were simply just bad. Back in Season 6, the only thing I would play were bruiser top laners. I could maybe get to Diamond 5 at best, until I picked up Maokai and was able to solo boost myself to Diamond 2, at a time when Maokai's winrate was as high as 56%, even though I had no prior knowledge or practice of the champion. Maokai was simply overpowered due to the insane amount of buffs that Riot had given him in order to make up for tank players' lack of skill.

The Season 6 tank meta was not the only instance of buffing classes played by unskilled players. Enter, the Season 7 Ardent Censer item 3504 meta. The exact same cycle occurred, unskilled support players got massive buffs to easy-to-play support champions like Soraka Soraka, Nami Nami, and ESPECIALLY Janna Janna. Support was already a balanced class at the time, but because of the massive help that the heal/shield champions got, many skilled players from other classes started migrating to support, and proceeded to abuse the now extremely overpowered Ardent Censer meta. Solo queue was completely ruined. Janna Janna throughout the rest of the season sat at a comfortable 57% winrate.

The point is, players need to get better at the game, they cannot be given buffs simply because they cannot perform well on balanced classes, else, we will just return to another tank or Ardent Censer meta, like we did in Seasons 6 and 7.

The reason Armor is considered so bad right now is because of what we remembered of the dreaded Tank meta in Season 6. Back then, you could endlessly stack armor with no consequence and become basically unkillable, able to out damage anyone in 1v1s and teamfights. Tank players still believe they can buy armor and 1v1 anyone. Mages still believe they can rush Seeker's Armguard item 3191 and Ninja Tabi item 3047 and auto win lane against Zed and Yasuo. However, that's not the case anymore, and it never will be, because that's not a healthy way to balance the game. Seeker's Armguard and Ninja Tabi should help give you an advantage in lane against AD champions, but not outright auto-win you the lane. Tank items are meant to help you survive in teamfights, but not be the be-all-end-all item that makes you invincible and allows you to 1v1 everyone.

People believe that's the purpose of tank items because that's what they were used to in Season 6. We all thought tanks being insanely overpowered was just "normal" because we've had to deal with it for so long. It's time we all let go of this idea, put the past behind us, and become better players, instead of complaining that our Armor rush isn't overpowered like it used to be.

tl;dr armor is fine, you just need to get better at the game.

29 Comments

Infernape8 votes

I remember when armour purchases meant something and the plethora of true damage in the game was limited to certain kits and not widely available for anything that runs a rune or buys a certain item to use.

remakoro6 votes

Seeker's Armguard and Ninja Tabi should help give you an advantage in lane against AD champions, but not outright auto-win you the lane.

Why i can rush MR and auto win my lane vs AP burst champion if i cant do the same vs AD burst casters? I dont even have to get big items or be tanky. One item 3155 or item 3211 can provide me enough advantage. Plus item 3111 and im unkillable for the rest of the game.

KING XXXI1 votes

Because unlike AP burst champions/mages, you sacrifice too much wave clear, and thus you'd be extremely irrelevant mid game, even if you did win lane.

remakoro2 votes

Do you understand the fuck you just said?

Illabethe2 votes

Wrong. Hexdrinker is a cheap buy, and the sustain is well worth it. I dominate Lethality/Crit adcs with it.

Madsin254 votes

item 3155

enough said.

KING XXXI3 votes

Not enough said, would you care to elaborate?

Madsin252 votes

It is the sole reason zed gets a lead against me.

The same cannot be said against seekers. The very thing you are arguing against.

Kats Pajamas2 votes

The main reason armor is bad is because the player base refuses to build it at good times. Maybe if you started with cloth armor(300) into zed who rushes dirk(1100) you would profit before actually going 0/3 and buying armor then. There is basically this idea going around, you don't need defense until you die at least once, and it's just a wrong idea.

Lets have shrex2 votes

{quoted}

The main reason armor is bad is because the player base refuses to build it at good times. Maybe if you started with cloth armor(300) into zed who rushes dirk(1100) you would profit before actually going 0/3 and buying armor then. There is basically this idea going around, you don't need defense until you die at least once, and it's just a wrong idea.

because my opponent didn't rush item 1057

Hemulen Magi1 votes

If you rush armor, you often can't clear waves and automatically lose your lane. You also often give up any kill potential against your opponent, so you can't snowball in a snowball 1-shot meta. Damage dealers have way more access to snowballing than tanks. It's the nature of their classes but the game is way too snowbally right now and that's where some of the problems arise.

Illabethe1 votes

Not all champions can start a cloth armor. Some legitimately need item 1056 or they won't have a lane phase, because their mana costs are too taxing.

Atm that's kind of the problem with Zed: Mid gets level 6 too fast. Mid is usually level 6 in 4-5 minutes, when other lanes haven't even recalled once yet.

Fízz v22 votes

The reason Armor is considered so bad right now is because of what we remembered of the dreaded Tank meta in Season 6.

nah pretty sure the reason is https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/20/Conqueror_rune.png/revision/latest?cb=20180314225947

Full armor tanks should 1v1 any AD champ that isnt anti tank like Fiora or Vayne until people get Last Whisper.

ModWulf Helhammer4 votes

Actual tanks shouldn't be doing damage. It's what got us into a damage focused meta in the first place

remakoro1 votes

Even if they doing little to do dmg. If you cant outsustain or kill them they gotta finish you off sooner or later.

Fízz v21 votes

That would be fine if you rework the whole game, but what would stop me from just ignoring tanks and right clicking towers if they did no damage?

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

Because they have CC. They trade in the damage for superior team fighting due to their greater durability and lockdown.

Ralanr1 votes

The problem is that the game doesn’t start as a teamfight so some tanks need solo power in the jungle or top.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

There's a pretty steep power difference between being able to clear the jungle and being able to 1v1 another champion.

As for top lane: tanks are not supposed to win the lane on their own. Them doing so was the reason why now we have Conqueror and its messes.

Fighters are early game, intended to snowball a lead and end the game before their lesser durability and not as much utility come back to bite them against a tank's far superior team fighting.

Ralanr1 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ahYAKM8l,comment-id=000400000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-07T19:20:25.824+0000)

There's a pretty steep power difference between being able to clear the jungle and being able to 1v1 another champion.

Yes and no. Squishy champions early game fall pretty easy to just simple base damage that tanks need to clear the jungle.

As for top lane: tanks are not supposed to win the lane on their own. Them doing so was the reason why now we have Conqueror and its messes.

Fighters are early game, intended to snowball a lead and end the game before their lesser durability and not as much utility come back to bite them against a tank's far superior team fighting.

Ok, but tanks shouldn't just be an automatic lose in every trade. Fighters should have an advantage in a fight, but if they have too many advantages then there is little reason for the tank to even try trading. We end up having tanks completely sandbag a lane from non-interaction and last hitting under tower (like old Shen). This is incredibly unfun and doesn't speak well in a pvp game when your most effective strategy is to ignore your opponent and just farm.

Tanks shouldn't always beat a fighter, but they should have chances to beat out fighters, especially when the fighters don't even have the items that give them their damage output. And while tanks have a superior teamfight power, they tend to fall off late game due to anti-tank items being bought then. So if you give tanks a weak early, you're basically only giving them a strong mid as they don't really work late unless the enemy team is stupid.

Illabethe1 votes

Yet you're a moderator for Riot saying this..... Tanks are an interesting beast. They can't lane/jungle if they can't do damage, but if they can do damage, we need a damage focused meta. I can't think of many current tanks who don't have serious stickiness and damage....the other day I literally was chased down and killed by a full Armor Malphite on a Ezreal with item 3025 . When a Malph can do that, you know something's wrong.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Yet you're a moderator for Riot saying this.....

What?

As for jungling, as I said to Ralanr above, there's a pretty big difference between being able to clear jungle camps and being able to 1v1 another champion, particularly when that other champion is building damage.

Illabethe1 votes

You.Have.A.Moderator.Tag

And for most tanks that's not actually true. Champion vs champion, TahmKench Shen Rammus Malphite Maokai Nautilus DrMundo all do significant damage and have no trouble clearing camps or killing champs. Any one of them can 1v1 an adc. item 3751 Clears jung faster than almost all AD builds too. item 3077 can kind of keep up with Bami's but It's just not as fast.

Most of them also 1v1 AD players.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

You.Have.A.Moderator.Tag

And what does that have to do with anything?

And per my original comment:

Tanks shouldn't be doing damage

Key word there is "shouldn't". Not that they aren't, but that they shouldn't.

Also, the only 3 true tanks on your list: Shen, Maokai, Nautilus.

The others are either more a bruiser/juggernaut or are specifically meant to counter a specific damage type and therefore gain an advantage from the defense to it.

remakoro2 votes

Lethality 22.5g per 1 point Mpen 31g per 1 point

Armor 20g per 1 point MR 18g per 1 point

Sources of flat aPen item 3134 item 3147 item 3814 item 3142 Sudden impact Sources of total aPen item 3035 Sources of % armor shredding item 3071 MonkeyKing Garen JarvanIV Kayle KogMaw Jayce Renekton Sion Trundle Vi Nasus Flat aReduction Rengar Corki And finally this glorious thing item 3031

Sources of flat mPen item 3020 item 3916 Sudden impact Sources of total mPen item 3135 Sources of % MR reduction Trundle KogMaw Kayle Karthus Jayce Evelynn Sources of flat mReduction item 3091 Corki

Since characters have inherently more armor than MR im not gonna mention conqueror or the fact that auto attacks dont benefit from AP or mPen or that magic damage does not benefit from crit.

Well... Yea. Armor looks totally fine.

Illabethe1 votes

Lmfao Poppy has NEVER been the go to pick.... except the OLD poppy whose ult was an invulnerability button lol.

Supports were never balanced before the new items except in the eyes of friggin people who didn't play it. Ofc, you want back the days where carry = 20k gold and a Support earns 5-6k Gold, don't you? Because that's so balanced.

There was no unkillable tank meta in Season 6. You're dreaming. Season 6 was the season of Feral Flame etc. % damage destroyed those tanks. Also, Season 6 has the longest average games of any season at 31 minutes. People LOVED season 6.

About your last point: If Seeker's Armguard/Zhonya's aren't an autowin vs Zed/Yasuo, what is? Oh Right. Nothing.

There has never been a point in this game where AD's could erase 90% of your Armor..... until now. Wukong can even erase 105% of your Armor. Don't act like Armor is worth anything at all right now.

remakoro1 votes

Lmfao Poppy has NEVER been the go to pick....

She was. I think it was right after her rework when top lane was infested with poppy vs trundle every game. Late game poppy was just running around the map with absolutely no one capable of killing her.

except the OLD poppy whose ult was an invulnerability button lol.

And the old poppy was not picked by anyone for years when we arrived to rework. It was the running joke at the time - best chances of poppy for victory come from the fact that no one has any idea what she does. (because she is never picked)

Illabethe1 votes

Poppy's win rate right after her rework was 42%. She settled out to 47%. She has never passed 50% since her rework. At all.

And the reason people didn't pick the old Poppy wasn't because her kit sucked. It was because she was the ugliest champ with the most outdated skins, and no one worked with what they considered outdated (kind of like how Ryze and Aatrox have gotten buried..... until Aatrox rework; Ryze still has an OP kit... just no one plays him because his skill cap is so high). Her kit was basically one Shove/stun, and the rest was all about boosting auto attacks. In other words, clunky.

remakoro1 votes

I didnt say she was op or anything.

Yea old poppy was ugly as hell. But another bigger reason why she wasnt played - she had no place in meta. On mid she would get fucked by mages. On top she would get fucked by rene and those that can compete with him cuz she had shitty early game. In jungle she had really shitty sustain and clear. So you just had no way to actually bring her into the game. Welcome to the old league where every lane has its gatekeepers and no one bitches about it.

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