every tank builds the same items regardless of niche or function

Big Lincoln·Jul 24, 2017·70 votes·3,411 views

tank mains hate playing it, everyone else hates playing against it

really good tank update lol

82 Comments

MarshbouyJul 24, 201711 votes

Oh yeah weren't people asking for some sort of OP tank item that would be a huge powerspike and everyone could buy it regardless of niche?

RalanrJul 24, 201728 votes

I remember people asking for it to be one item for top lane tanks specifically.

I'm honestly not a fan of the combo.

MarshbouyJul 24, 201711 votes

confining an item to just one group of tanks isn't going to work. It's either all tanks or nothing. And I mean tanks not juggernauts.

RalanrJul 24, 20174 votes

And when I mean top lane tanks I mean champions like Sion, Poppy, and Galio.

And sure, you can't make it for one role. I'd still prefer a singular item instead of having to use up two inventory slots (which is a big reason I don't use this build).

Sun Wu RyuumokuJul 24, 20171 votes

These 2 items are for mid-late anyway...

RalanrJul 24, 20171 votes

I don't want to use my inventory space for two non health items like that.

TotalJerkJul 25, 20174 votes

Locket gives you a bigass shield and stoneplate has an active than can literally double your health. The actives outright counter the weaknesses of the stats.

Big LincolnJul 24, 20172 votes

Oh yeah weren't people asking for some sort of OP tank item that would be a huge powerspike and everyone could buy it regardless of niche?

not that i can recall.

I do.

you do what?

MarshbouyJul 24, 201718 votes

not that i can recall.

Then you have selective hearing or weren't paying attention. There was plenty of angry ranting about how ADCs had item 3031 bruisers/juggernauts had item 3071 AD assassins had item 3147 / item 3142 mages had item 3165 but tanks didn't have a go to item, especially after item 3143 changes.

you do what?

I was thinking I wrote "remember when...." when in reality i wrote "oh yeah weren't people asking for" so I got mixed up. Edited.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJul 24, 20173 votes

not true for item 3147 ... when they were crying about other class dusk wasn't core nor strong like now.

Critmaster GarenJul 24, 20179 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=agN1PsA5,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-07-24T14:49:08.157+0000)

not that i can recall.

you do what?

not an op tank item, but ive seen multiple requests for a powerful tank core item.

the equivalent to deathcap for mages, or i.e. for marksmen.

i dont even see stoneplate as much of an issue. locket is much more problematic. especially since it synergizes with stoneplate on top of that.

giving tanks themselves a window of massive tankyness is fine, but the aoe shield on locket is without a doubt overtuned. especially in nieche cases like Chogath

i think most of stoneplates issues could be solved if it either granted 30%/50% damage reduction instead of bonus health, or if the extra health would be counted towards the base health of the tank. like some people suggested.

Big LincolnJul 24, 20178 votes

i disagree with windows of super tankiness on items. most tanks already have that on their base kit, so the end result is that they have to be much worse when that window is over or they're overtuned

RalanrJul 24, 20173 votes

Then why do you want items like Steraks to have an active? Not a tank item, but giving it an active provides a window of tankiness.

Big LincolnJul 24, 20177 votes

so that it actually does what it's supposed to do instead of getting the shield after Veigar or Leblanc has already bursted me

and it's different for juggers because they don't also have windows of tankiness in their kit for the most part

SwarovskoJul 24, 20177 votes

every tank builds the same items

As if mages assassins and enchanters had build diversity lol

RalanrJul 24, 20175 votes

I don't think Sion builds those. The duration doesn't last long compared to his abilities.

THE RlVER KlNGJul 24, 20172 votes

I build locket on Tahm really only when I'm behind/even. Same for Stoneplate its just not a great purchase for him.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 25, 20171 votes

Really? Stoneplate's not a good purchase on Tahm? I'd imagined it would be, since it'd give you the equivalent of a fourth health bar.

makkiiJul 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Really? Stoneplate's not a good purchase on Tahm? I'd imagined it would be, since it'd give you the equivalent of a fourth health bar.

Had a top tahm get it the other day, literally unkillable, goy him to 5% hp then left him to three of my team mates while i chased down 2 oyher enemies, 10 seconds later still no team and i hear TRIPLE KILL......

THE RlVER KlNGJul 25, 20171 votes

No. No health on the item itself is a bad purchase. I never buy an item on Tahm that doesn't give me health unless it is Locket.

It's not good for him either because the active reduces his damage outut. Top Tahm Kench is a bruiser more than a tank and so 60% less damage is crushing. There are like a dozen or so items support Kench should be buying over Stoneplate in the first place.

It's not a good buy.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 25, 20171 votes

Ah. I can see that. He is meant to be high damage. But doesn't his damage scale off of health? I'd imagine that, if it's worthwhile on Cho'gath, it's worthwhile on Tahm. Then again, I don't know either's scalings.

However, I must disagree with there being that many items he should buy over Stoneplate as a support, simply because of its absurd synergy with Locket. That alone makes it a worthwhile buy on any tank support.

And...not to quibble technicalities, but isn't Tahm a juggernaut or tank, rather than bruiser? He is far too tanky to be a simple bruiser.

THE RlVER KlNGJul 25, 20171 votes

The only reason Cho'Gath is good with GS is because his main damage tool (ult) is true damage, meaning it can't be reduced. So the -60% penalty is no applied. Whereas Tahm gaining double health may sound pretty good until you realize it's magic damage, which is reduced by 60% and thus you would technically suffer, what, like a net 10% loss on the passive damage, if I'm doing my math correctly. Either way it's just not a good purchase on carry Tahm, since his main purpose in a teamfight is to kill people, and not necessarily to soak up damage and draw aggro like his support counterpart.

No. Knight's Vow, RG, Redemption, DMP, Locket are all waaay better. I've only ever built Stoneplate on support Tahm once and it wasn't very good, even with Locket, because you're missing out on a lot of other items you could be getting in return for a long-CD short impact effect.

Juggernaut is a class of bruiser. So top Tahm Kench fulfills an equatable role to champions like Nasus, Garen, etc. - easy to kite but devastating in close range, while being very tanky.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJul 24, 20175 votes

Every assassins builds the same items....

item 3142 item 3147

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Big LincolnJul 24, 20173 votes

AD assassins are a much smaller and more specialized group than 'every tank' which includes initiators and peelers and most of what's in between

Sun Wu RyuumokuJul 24, 20175 votes

yeah true. So should i go with mighty fighter and item 3071 ?

Big LincolnJul 24, 20173 votes

some of them are better with triforce but I've always felt like Cleaver does too much sometimes

even then sometimes i don't even buy cleaver cos lethality is 100x better against squishes

DuskDaUmbreonJul 25, 20171 votes

Or maybe he should go with mages and item 3165 . Or ADCs and item 3031 . Or supports and item 2049 .

Chisel Tick KickJul 25, 20171 votes

item 3153 A item 3147 D item 3031 C item 3071 s item 3142

And that's not counting the Zeal item start of item 3087 or item 3094 Or even the item 3812 or item 3072 start that sometimes goes down. Adc's have a lot of options

DuskDaUmbreonJul 25, 20171 votes

And tanks have the options of almost any defensive item in the game. Sure, those two items may be seen as core right now, but they're not the only items you can buy.

Chisel Tick KickJul 27, 20171 votes

They're certainly not the first two you buy anyways, but you should have them on your item list regardless due to how good the combo is. I mean, sure, I can first item buy a item 3124 or a item 3056 , or item 3022 or item 3742 or item 3814 or item 3222 or even item 3083 but it's not going to be optimal in the majority of cases. Tanks have some options, and you may be able to buy other things that ain't half bad, but if you're not going the item 3193 / item 3190 combo on at least one of your teammates then you're actively shying away from the best option you can decide to pick up on.

The stats it gives you are just amazing.

doodlebob666Jul 24, 20174 votes

before the update it was always item 3068 item 3065 as your first 2 items as a tank, tanks have never had great item diversity, atleast now there are a lot of good choices and 1 op combo, instead of 2 good items and the rest trash

Mr Wind Up BirdJul 24, 20172 votes

It seems weird to say that there are a lot of good choices if there's an op combo that everyone buys. Surely the combo is the only good choice?

makkiiJul 24, 20173 votes

i think the whole reason its unsatisfying to tanks is that this combo has no selfish power to it, its the strongest tank combo, but its whole purpose is to make the tank more peely and healy for the ADC, given yes we should be doing this, it shouldnt be the sole and only purpose of these tanky characters to just be a wall for the adc, this is more a support oriented primary task.

the reason tanks hate it is because this build is basically admitting that the only relevant role right now is adc, everyone else is just there to protect them and soak damage. and while this may be what supports play support for, it isnt what most tank players look foward to doing in a game.

JaxMoonStealerJul 25, 20173 votes

How are ADCs the only relevant role right now? Please explain.

makkiiJul 25, 20173 votes

{quoted}

How are ADCs the only relevant role right now? Please explain.

the whole meta revolves around protecting the adc's, mage supports are out, tank supports and cc supports are in, every tank in high lvl play is building stoneplate and locket, supports are doing the same, some other very common choices though not every game are knights vow and censer, and the whole meta is basically shielding healing and peeling for adc's such as cait/draven and jihn.

you know how i know adc's are the only relevant role? because when im playing other roles it doesnt matter how good i do, me and other players seem like an afterthought compared to the adc's on each team, because adc's even though they are sustained damage have as much burst as assasins and almost as much as mages, because adc's as opposed to s1-4 are spiking at lvl fucking 11-12 instead of 16-17, because it used to be that the adc's role was sustained damage in a team fight and as such their value risesup exponentially relative to other roles as a fight drags out, but now they have become solo machines able to kill anything that isnt a duelist by the time they are lvl 13(they shouldnt be able to solo typically unless they are named twitch, lucian or vayne) meaning by this time they are outlevling everybody, they are outpushing everybody, they can solo most of the champion roster, and they are the most valuable asset in a teamfight.

why is it do you think that adc's are the only subclass that consistently gets multikills every game? like anyone else i know, might get a triple every 3-7 games and a quad like once every 20, adc's are getting at least one triple kill every goddamn game, its rediculous out here.

like i literally feel irrelevant when compared side by side to any adc that hasnt done terrible in a game, this is especially true if you are draven/lucian/vayne/xayah/caitlyn, and the only way to feel semi relevant compared to them is to pick up items that yep you guessed it, buffs the adc.

and from what ive seen im not the only person who feels this way.

ElikainJul 24, 20173 votes

Riot knows about it. The question was already asked a few days ago. And no one is doing anything about it right now because preemptively nerfing things before knowing what's exactly happening, never solves the problem.

lil kodaJul 24, 20171 votes

but we know whats happening......

ElikainJul 25, 20174 votes

What's happening? Riot isn't jumping at the very first complaint to nerf something that the community "thinks" it's the problem? That's not how proper balance is being done and we all know it. And yet the community is still day after day talking about this like it's Riot's laziness or unwillingness to make the necessary changes when needed.

VeraskaJul 25, 20173 votes

I'm not like a dedicated tank player but I think there's a lot of good versatile option if your playing a fighter and you need some specialized items after yourf core (cleaver + dmg item)

It's just those 2 items usually function as your core for a teamfight tank, and not every game gets to 6 items so it's not surprising it'd be more common seeing those 2 items

It wasn't that much different pre tank update when every top lane tank in pro play would go sunfire>spirit visage>ga

GGLineaRJul 25, 20173 votes

Singed

MarshbouyJul 24, 20172 votes

I wouldn't say everyone hates it because there are people who miss Warmogs or the BC meta.

KloqdqJul 24, 20172 votes

I mean it's because of a couple reasons that these are the only options. First being the interaction between the two is freaking strong. No one should have the ability to dish out 3000k hp shields. It's stronger than a GA or Hourglass and almost every tank can use and abuse it.

The second issue is every other tank item has been nerfed to allow Stoneplate to exist. Tank items just aren't good and even before the interaction existed, stoneplate has been the staple item because it holds most of the tank classes tankiness.

The next issue is price. They are support items basically, so they have support prices. Tank items cost far more for little gain. The gain needs to be larger, OR the support items need to be nerfed, which I don't want to see nor do I believe to be the solution. Right now MR items have a massive reach of choices, which is fantastic. Armor does have some neat options but it feels somewhat lackluster. HP has been gutted. Right now we need to either change stoneplate to fix it's god awful problems and revert locket back to just a flat hp shield, while buffing other tank items slightly. Armor needs some more item choices to be meaningful and MR is probably fine as is.

Big LincolnJul 24, 201724 votes

stoneplate should be removed imo

it's holding the rest of the tank items hostage because of its active doubling their value, which has a ripple effect for bruisers too because they share a lot of items ((notice they also build stoneplate because it's simply the best). i dont think this item can be balanced easily and would prefer the older tank items' superior stats

KloqdqJul 24, 20172 votes

I like the idea behind it. I am all for "periods of tankiness". However, when an item holds all the power budget of a class, it shouldn't be allowed to exist. Just reminds me of DFG being one of the best AP items because everyone is an assassin now.

DarkRitualJul 24, 20172 votes

Instead of remove, make the normal boost bonus health, but the ADDITIONAL health from 3+ enemies BASE HEALTH. (Or make it all base health, or whatever ratio is best). This removes the Locket abuse case. It's still GOOD with Locket if the 40% health remains BONUS instead of BASE, but it's no longer a godly combination of items.

FawkseaJul 24, 20172 votes

tbh, i dislike what they did to other tank items, but holy moly do i actually_** FEEL **_ tanky when playing sion with stoneplate, and getting a locket to avoid my team's burst? UNF, its a great feeling to NOT get one shot or lose half my health cus the adc autod me once or twice. it may be unfair, but imo the only unfair thing about stoneplate is the bonus health u get goes with locket, change that and its balanced and fun