since youre active on the board right now, i thought id abuse that and pitch a couple of changes ive already been posting in a larger thread. this list isnt something major, but some scaling adjustments to his w and a slight change to his damage amp mechanic on his spin.
maybe you could pass it on to whoever is next in charge working on him. might work out.
Critmaster Garen1 votescourage (passive): scaling changed from 0.25 armor/mr per unit killed with a cap of 30 to
0.4 armor/mr per stack until 10 resist 25 0.3 armor/mr per stack until 20 resist 34 0.2 armor/mr per stack until 30 resist 50 0.1 armor/mr per stack without a cap
context: slightly faster ramp up (11 minions less to reach 30 stacks compared to now; 109 instead of 120) to improve his early game. makes up to 50 resistance total at 309 cs in case youre just powerfarming the entire game, which is still very reasonable. should improve his very lategame. also, potential infinite scaling is fun.
if its too much power early on, this could also be done with a different split. like
0.3 per stack until 15 resists 0.2 per stack until 30 resists 0.1 without cap
puts the total minion count at 125 instead of 120 (current) to reach 30 resist, but 15 resist at 50 minions instead of 60.
judgement: 33% damage increase against isolated targets changed to
33% increased damage when garen hits enemy units with the outer edge of the spin. http://i.imgur.com/r34pXsF.png?1
context: this has multiple reasons. his spin right now is probably the weakest ability in his kit during the early game. auto attacking deals actually more damage than hitting a full duration spin, unless you assume the target is isolated, which almost never happens in lane trades. this is why garen mains are actually maxing q in lane right now, as it deals the same damage as a full spin, but frontloaded, and grants additional utility.
this change should guarantee that garen would be able to make use of his damage amp slightly more often through proper positioning, and put the spin at least on par with maxing q in lane.
i also think, that while the isolation damage was not a bad idea at first, it doesnt really work out for him. it kindof defeats the idea of a juggernaut who wants to get into the middle of the enemy team and deal as much damage to as many targets as possible. it was intended as a counterplay mechanic in lane, but just feels overall clunky.
right now garen is reliant on the target to be isolated, while the enemy champion is reliant on having minions around to not take the full spin damage. which is weird when it comes to the midgame in skirmishes outside the lane. the mechanic is also lacks clarity really badly. how many people even know that garen deals more damage to an isolated target?
with the mechanic ive proposed its easy to make a visual indicator for the zone in which the spin deals more damage (very similar to darius q). of course the optimal way to fight garen is to stay out of his spin range altogether, and fight him when the ability is on cooldown. however in case thats unavoidable in a head on confrontation, the way to mitigate some of the spin damage would be a lot more clear than it is now.
the good part is, that this would add a layer of complexity to his kit, that would allow practised garen mains to get more out of the champion than people who are entirely new to him, without changing his general playstile or making him more complicated to play.
Critmaster Garen1 votesbumping this. its been a while and no feedback yet.
TyrekGoldenspear1 votesGood idea, I like it a lot.
As a fellow Garen main I approve!
Critmaster Garen1 votesbump.
King of Hearts111 votesDisagree with the the 33% damage increase to outer rim. Garen's villain mechnaic is already unreliable enough, I don't think he needs another element of his kit being only situationally useful just like his passive regen and villain mechanic. The 33% damage is actually quite noticable given if you are zoning your opponents. and get a chance to flash + spin on an opponent while peeling. Players just need to realize he's not a tank and maybe that's why the 33% damage doesn't seem like much because you see all these black cleaver and full tank item builds which poorly define his role (he's not a tank) and this isn't season 2 or season 3 where you can get away with building just one offensive item like black cleaver and rest tank.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=King of Hearts11,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=afpOPOTI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-10-19T13:15:11.255+0000)
this isn't season 2 or season 3 where you can get away with building just one offensive item like black cleaver and rest tank.
this is exactly what the juggernaut update was doing though. their kits were adjusted to have high base stats and high base damage, so they can mostly build defensive items to be as beefy as a tank and still deal reliable damage.
juggernauts should be able to focus on 1 or 2 bruiser items like cleaver and steraks and then just build straight defense.
the 33% damage increase is already an unrealiable factor in my opinion. the change i proposed would allow him not only to use it in lane more freuently, since hes not constantly gimped by minions, but it would also allow him to apply this damage to multiple opponents.
maybe its not an ideal mechanic, but better than how it currently works imo.
and garens current state is really terrible right now. i wouldnt describe him as versatile.
King of Hearts111 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=afpOPOTI,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-10-19T15:22:07.232+0000)
this is exactly what the juggernaut update was doing though. their kits were adjusted to have high base stats and high base damage, so they can mostly build defensive items to be as beefy as a tank and still deal reliable damage.
juggernauts should be able to focus on 1 or 2 bruiser items like cleaver and steraks and then just build straight defense.
the 33% damage increase is already an unrealiable factor in my opinion. the change i proposed would allow him not only to use it in lane more freuently, since hes not constantly gimped by minions, but it would also allow him to apply this damage to multiple opponents.
maybe its not an ideal mechanic, but better than how it currently works imo.
and garens current state is really terrible right now. i wouldnt describe him as versatile.
Except it was clearly outlined by Riot very early on that they preferred Garen hitting his power-spike mid-game rather than having a strong early game and weak mid-game/late-game. That's the whole reason why they removed the base scaling on Judgement and changed it to Bonus AD. They mentioned it pretty clearly that he's not meant to be Darius whose an early-game bully. They wanted Garen to shine in later stages of the game and many Garen players wanted that.
The 33% extra dmg is a much more consistent mechanic than the villain passive randomly resetting to champions who get the last kill. So I would much rather prefer that than Riot screwing up and making it even more random and utterly useless. Atleast while roaming you can get a 33% damage off with Flash Combo. I would prefer it if they removed minions counting towards the passive as that's just a complete way to nullify its effect in the first place.
Its funny how I outlined clearly in my paragraph that tank Garen no longer works in current meta and you turn around and say "No Tank Garen sucks and that's why Garen sucks". You are free to have your own opinion but I would much rather prefer Garen as being dominant in later stages of the game rather than early on with only subpar stages of mid/late game potential, unless some sort of team utility spell was given to Garen. He will always be subpar on a competitive level due to his kit providing no utility outside a 1.5 second silence and being kited easily as "Tank" Garen. The only real incentive he can realistically offer is Damage Threat which is quite considerably strong with crit items. I would prefer Riot to expand his role more on that line. That's just my way of playing Garen and it works quite successfully even in ranked. I understand why he will never make it to the competiive scene because of his low utility value but I would still like him to excel in some portions of the game in Solo Queue.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=King of Hearts11,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=afpOPOTI,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T16:52:14.717+0000)
Except it was clearly outlined by Riot very early on that they preferred Garen hitting his power-spike mid-game rather than having a strong early game and weak mid-game/late-game. That's the whole reason why they removed the base scaling on Judgement and changed it to Bonus AD. They mentioned it pretty clearly that he's not meant to be Darius whose an early-game bully. They wanted Garen to shine in later stages of the game and many Garen players wanted that.
The 33% extra dmg is a much more consistent mechanic than the villain passive randomly resetting to champions who get the last kill. So I would much rather prefer that than Riot screwing up and making it even more random and utterly useless. Atleast while roaming you can get a 33% damage off with Flash Combo. I would prefer it if they removed minions counting towards the passive as that's just a complete way to nullify its effect in the first place.
Its funny how I outlined clearly in my paragraph that tank Garen no longer works in current meta and you turn around and say "No Tank Garen sucks and that's why Garen sucks". You are free to have your own opinion but I would much rather prefer Garen as being dominant in later stages of the game rather than early on with only subpar stages of mid/late game potential, unless some sort of team utility spell was given to Garen. He will always be subpar on a competitive level due to his kit providing no utility outside a 1.5 second silence and being kited easily as "Tank" Garen. The only real incentive he can realistically offer is Damage Threat which is quite considerably strong with crit items. I would prefer Riot to expand his role more on that line. That's just my way of playing Garen and it works quite successfully even in ranked. I understand why he will never make it to the competiive scene because of his low utility value but I would still like him to excel in some portions of the game in Solo Queue.
i dont know where you got the idea that the spin scales with bonus attack damage. because it scales with total attack damage, which combined with his very high base ad is supposed to promote a tanky bruiser build.
he is a juggernaut after all, and juggernauts are supposed to be concentrated packages of damage and defense in melee, with low utility.
when they reworked garen, they actually originally removed the crit scaling on his spin and designed him without crit in mind. riot repertoir added the scaling back on later, because he thought while it was a fun build, it would still be sub par to his standart juggernaut build. so the crit scaling didnt actually factor into his power budget.
the fact that it has become the only way to deal reliable damage on garen right now, even at the cost of being squishy as fuck an generally useless if the enemy isnt entirely braindead is more of a reason to give him some attention now.
the reason why they added the entire villain mechanic and the % max health true damage that comes with it on the spin is, so heavy defensive builds work on him, and he still deals reliable damage with 3 full defensive items like 
and 2 bruiser items like 
obviously his builds will vary a bit, but this is generally how a decent and working garen build should look like.
the crit route is fun, and can be good in certain situations when youre ahead. but realistically it works even less in a competitive environment, since for once he doesnt actually have a lot of synergy with crit items anymore except for i.e. and second, it leaves him very squishy. because enemies will at all times focus you and blow you up before you can get into melee range make use of that damage build.
its even worse in an environment full of ranged champions with permaslows. at least on a defense heavy builds youll survive abit longer. if youre building too squishy you wont have a chance at all.
either way, the w changes are still something to consider, as it improves his lategame and would at least compensate somewhat for all the item nerfs he received.
King of Hearts111 votesAn additional thing to keep in mind is that his spin is reliant on levels. That means he does not have that early game dominance like he used to back in s2-s4 and is not an early game stomper like Darius. Personally, I prefer this change as it allows him to outscale champions like Renekton and Darius if he can make it past that phase of the game and I do feel he has a good chance of doing so given some of the defensive elements of his kit like his W giving resists and 30% damage reduction.
However do I feel like he needs more utility or some elements of his kit need to be re-looked at and fine toned in order to clearly define his role? Absolutely.
Could the active part of his W be re-defined as a support/tank skill like _"All X% of damage in an area surrounding Garen get redirected to him and Garen and his Allies take 20% less damage for X seconds"? _
That would obviously define his role very well as a support-bruiser if that were to go through and he would suddenly bring utility to a team, which he currently lacks. I also personally like your suggestion of allowing his W to stack infinitely but that would suit more of a damage bruiser similar to a tanky Riven-Esque which I would enjoy quite a bit but they would then have to define Crit more clearly in his Kit. I feel like crit is a very over-looked stat on Garen and is absolutely devastating if you have atleast 70% on him, but there needs to be some more synergy for Crit in his kit (like Yasuo). All in all, Garen's kit is just too all over the place to really know what exactly should be prioritized on him. Right now Tank Garen (Black Cleaver + Full Tank) brings NO incentive to a team whereas AD Garen/Bruiser Garen bring signicantly more incentive because of the damage threat they provide. Now does Riot want to revert the damage threat AD Garen provides because they feel like he shouldn't be in a damage role similar to Riven/Wukong and move him into a Pseudo-Tank position with a utility role in his kit or do they want to explore the damage side in his kit with the potential to match some of the highest damage dealers due to elements of Critical Strike in his kit as he is one of the only 3 champions in league to have that niche (other being GP and Yasuo).
Keep in mind, I feel Garen in his current state is a very versatile champion as long he's not built as a Tanky Champion but as a Damage Bruiser similar to Riven. I have almost a 1000+ games on Garen and have played him exclusively since season 1. He is also in a better spot than majority of other times except release Garen lol. I am also somewhat skeptical of Riot's ability to fix it as they have shown time and time again how bad they are in fine toning such a simple champion as Garen. Meddler is partly to blame for that as he said he will be keeping an eye on Garen threads but never followed up with any suggestions or any feedback as to his current thoughts on him. However they have come out with some great changes to other champions so I do have hope.
TL;DR You aren't getting one as you should try to read and understand Garen's issues in the current meta.
