RIOT: Remove CINDERHULK and bring back JUGGERNAUT

EmollientNut0·May 24, 2015·1 votes·674 views

You've had to nerf the AOE damage of it in to the ground to the point that it's barely part of the item outside of fighting jungle monsters, and you've had to constantly sit there and tool/rebalance the 10-15 champions that the item broke to begin with. Hasn't it hit a point where too much money and effort has gone in to the item in general? I thought the free tenacity from Juggernaut was way more interesting for freeing up your boot slot to customize anyway.

The stat review of the 2 items:

CINDERHULK _ +300 health +25% bonus health Passive (Unique) - Immolate: Deals 15 (+0.6 per champion level) magic damage per second to nearby enemies. Deals 100% more damage against monsters _

JUGGERNAUT

+500 health _+10% cooldown reduction Passive (Unique) - Tenacity: The duration of most forms of crowd control is reduced by 35%. _

11 Comments

SEKAIMay 24, 20151 votes

Juggernaut was replaced because it was useless in practice.

Cinderhulk worked well, but then people QQ'ed and Riot listened.

EmollientNut0May 24, 20151 votes

Was Jugg really viewed/utilized that badly for most? I always thought it was a bit more dynamic with it's traits, especially since the Cinder nerfs it's basically just a sack of health now.

SEKAIMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Was Jugg really viewed/utilized that badly for most? I always thought it was a bit more dynamic with it's traits, especially since the Cinder nerfs it's basically just a sack of health now.

It was not so great because while the stat lineup seemed cool, but due to the early jungle monster being more hardcore now, the tanks really had problems surviving and clearing jungle in an acceptable rate. Juggernaut was one of those things that sounded cool on paper, but simply didn't work well in practice.

Cinderhulk was made to replace it in order to address the issue, which it did, but people complained and now it's nerfed so yer.

A lot of people just don't want tanks viable thesedays, blame them.

EmollientNut0May 24, 20151 votes

Jungle clearing was definitely greatly improved thanks to it and it changed the scene for tanks in a huge way, I was just a little disappointed that they basically made an item they already have. If I recall it's so similar to sunfire that the damage from the 2 don't stack?

WarlockLawMay 24, 20153 votes

Competitively I don't think juggernaut was ever built. Devourer had its time and got nerfed, a little too hard imo, then warrior took its place. Riot didn't want to nerf warrior into the ground so they buffed tanks with cinderhulk. I'm just waiting for an announcement that magus is going to somehow gain extra mana regen so that it can be op and our junglers become nidalee/fiddlesticks/diana

EmollientNut0May 24, 20151 votes

I know the new jungle items are new so there's been a lot of balancing of them, but so far the checks and balances have made it seem like there's a "Jungle item of the month."

khorneyMay 24, 20151 votes

Lol why cinderhaulk is okay it works better on people who already have a aoe move like mumu and sej . then again jugg worked best on sej and is the damage worth more then the CD tenacity.

GinoSoldierMay 24, 20151 votes

I think if we're to bring all the JG items to the same level, Magus needs to give flat (10-20?) MS as a bonus to help out slow mages keep up in the jungle as well as AP and mana-regen. The speed increase will make them slightly better gankers as well, which is often an issue with less popular AP junglers.

EmollientNut0May 24, 20151 votes

The last AP jungler I played was Diana and I was still used to the old s3-s4 jungle item, so it was really strange to me to use Magus and have my mana be decimated. But in a way I think you're right, some of the items really could use some more dynamic stat increases like that.

GinoSoldierMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The last AP jungler I played was Diana and I was still used to the old s3-s4 jungle item, so it was really strange to me to use Magus and have my mana be decimated. But in a way I think you're right, some of the items really could use some more dynamic stat increases like that.

Well, think about the current CDR, we get 10% from blue buff, and there's no reason for an AP jungler not to get Morellonomicon considering tank and AD jungle are full of sustain, that's 30% right there. Sure the CDR on current Magus helps early but it just depletes our mana even faster without good sustain. I was thinking flat MS because it scales nicely later with Lich's Bane and Luden's Echo, and more often than not mages are really low on mobility and don't have any high movement steroids or dashes, which slows down their clear times considerably. (I'm saying mages, not AP assassins like Ahri and Leblanc) A small amount of bonus health (200?) wouldn't go amiss either, so we don't feel like we're about to give a laner a kill when we gank.

ModAcademy KaynMay 24, 20151 votes

If you are a tank that has been cc'd, then the enemy team has F**ked up. They shouldn't have cc'd you. Your main point of a tank is to soak damage and peel. If they wasted cc on you, then you did your job correctly.

Other words, tenacity encourages to enemy player to not cc you, since you're not getting a full effect. You want to be cc'd as a tank, since its cc that is not going towards your carries.