why arent cleaver and last whisper items given the same passive name?

Critmaster Garen·Jul 7, 2016·6 votes·447 views

it would at least reduce the amount of stackable armor pen. you did it with and . i dont see why it wouldnt be a good idea to prevent builds that stack extreme amounts of armor pen like some adc are running right now

also, when is duskblade going to become a melee item? you promised it would be changed if ranged champions started abusing it. are building it to get cheese 1 shots on squshies. mf has been abusing the item for quite a while now, and still no change?

edit.: actually i dont know how it works with and . which item does take precedence, if magic burst would be large ebough to trigger both item passives?

but the way it would work with cleaver and last whisper is, that you either dont apply cleaver stacks to your opponent, but gain last whispers armpor pen, or you dont get the armor pen and are able to apply stacks.

12 Comments

67chromeJul 7, 20163 votes

why arent cleaver and last whisper items given the same passive name?

They're both quite different in how they work.

i dont see why it wouldnt be a good idea to prevent builds that stack extreme amounts of armor pen like some adc are running right now

Black Cleaver and Last Whisper was the core build of most AD casters from seasons 3~5.

Armor penetration gave a lot of casters a secondary damage multiplier on-par with what critical strikes offered. This also gave a lot of intended squishies a big incentive to build glass-cannon rather than the tanky assassin shenanigans plaguing this season.

This season though, Cleaver lost 10 flat penetration and needs 6 stacks to build up, and Whisper only works on bonus armor rather than total armor: which pretty much screwed max-armor penetration builds for every melee champion.

Critmaster GarenJul 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They're both quite different in how they work.

Black Cleaver and Last Whisper was the core build of most AD casters from seasons 3~5.

Armor penetration gave a lot of casters a secondary damage multiplier on-par with what critical strikes offered. This also gave a lot of intended squishies a big incentive to build glass-cannon rather than the tanky assassin shenanigans plaguing this season.

This season though, Cleaver lost 10 flat penetration and needs 6 stacks to build up, and Whisper only works on bonus armor rather than total armor: which pretty much screwed max-armor penetration builds for every melee champion.

maw and steraks have quite different passives aswell. yet, they made it work.

past seasons didnt have a lot of flat armor pen items in addition to cleaver and last whisper. fact is rght now adc are stacking cleaver with dominiks and ghostblade and other flat armor pen items to negate too much of a tanks resistances.

tanks have barely any effect on 6 item defensive builds. because of it and theyre building hp/ap items and damage items to try and burst adc faster than they get bursted by an adc.

67chromeJul 7, 20161 votes

maw and steraks have quite different passives aswell. yet, they made it work.

Both passives are nearly identical, the only key difference is one only works vs. magic damage.

past seasons didnt have a lot of flat armor pen items in addition to cleaver and last whisper. fact is rght now adc are stacking cleaver with dominiks and ghostblade and other flat armor pen items to negate too much of a tanks resistances.

Most of that had to due with the distribution of armor penetration in past seasons.

Last Whisper and Black Cleaver offered a ton of collective armor penetration, leaving little room for any other items to grant it.

Now they do not. Armor pen in crazy late-game builds is still ultimatly the same, it's just been broken down into smaller chunks in several items rather than being bound to a few. Which is doing more the opposite of what you're claiming. It's generally harder to amass solid levels of armor penetration this season than it has been in the past.

tanks have barely any effect on 6 item defensive builds.

That's true, but an average game only lasts ~33 minutes and sees ~11,000 gold per player, or enough gold to gain 3 major 3k items, 1k in boots, and 1k in the bank when someone's Nexus explodes.

All champions have different power spikes. Tanks usually spike earlier than marksman, marksman tend to have the biggest power spike of any champion when looking at 3 major items.

CaítlynJul 7, 20162 votes

"wah wah ADCs are using MY itemz"

RalanrJul 7, 20163 votes

I don't see how this helps you. They are and have been (Steraks for example).

Friendly RamJul 7, 20161 votes

Last whisper is bonus armor pen while bc is stacking total armor pen. On your second question if both conditions are met i believe both trigger.

RalanrJul 7, 20161 votes

Wouldn't this change phage and therefore Trinity Force as well?

Edit: I'm forgetting that phage doesn't give the armor shred. It's early in the morning for me.

PennsJul 7, 20161 votes

Maybe if adcs didnt suck so much thatd be a good thing lel

Critmaster GarenJul 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if adcs didnt suck so much thatd be a good thing lel

they dont. there are always some adc who are outclassing all the other ones, because theyre either outperforming them or because theyre beating them early in lane. its been like that almost since this game existed. every season had its holy trinity of adc.

that doesnt mean the other adc are generally bad compared to the rest of the champion pool, or not capable of carrying. theyre just slightly weaker than the top picks and hence considered "trash" or they get completely destroyed by the top picks early on.

PennsJul 7, 20161 votes

But the thing is that generally most adcs are trash in soloq if theyre not like super op atm. You can get a quadra early-mid game with Jinx, crush lane, but the Kata or the Annie still oneshot you and the item 1401 item 3024 Sion still fucks you up with item 3085 item 3031 . The only way you can do something is if your team peels, but.. you know.

Critmaster GarenJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But the thing is that generally most adcs are trash in soloq if theyre not like super op atm. You can get a quadra early-mid game with Jinx, crush lane, but the Kata or the Annie still oneshot you and the still fucks you up with . The only way you can do something is if your team peels, but.. you know.

this really depends on your mmr. even at lower ratings, people will usually focus kat and interrupt her when she jumps in to delete someone.

but the higher up you get, the more coordinated teams become, hence why kat is pretty mediocre around plat and upwards and rarely manages to actually carry, unless the enemy teamcomp is just right.

if you have trouble with getting peel, i suggest just buying 1 defensive item earlier on, and add hexdrinker to your build. sure, you wont deal as much damage as the opposing adc if he goes full glass cannon crit build, but hes gonna get deleted anyways, right?