is damage too high, or durability too low?

Big Lincoln··1 votes·363 views

should we lower damage or raise defense?

i think both have their merits; right now if you aren't a full tank with stoneplate you're probably going to get chewed up mid-late game if you're taking any damage at all.

we could even do both; the main offenders of theoretical damage creep (marksmen, support items, mage scums) could take small to moderate hits to their damage, and every non-tank class (maybe even the tanks) could be compensated with an up to defensive base stats like hp and armor

what do you think should happen?

10 Comments

Paroe2 votes

@thread Damage needs to be toned back heavily. Crit needs to be reworked to remove psuedo-RNG And base stats need to be reduced across the board to allow champions to be defined by their natural base stats.

What id LOVE to see is;

  1. Marksman itemization ---> BF sword reduced to 30AD. Marksman items max out at 50AD
  2. Attack speed itemization ----> zeal has its crit removed. All crit items must purchase cloaks of agility. effects of attack speed items increased to compensate.
  3. Crit itemization ---> Cloak of agility now builds out of two brawlers gloves. Brawler gloves 100g price reduction.
  4. base stat changes
  • A) Base HP for; Mages, Marksman, Melee fighters, Tanks; 1200, 1400, 1600, 2000
  • B) Base MS for immobile ranged champions; 335-340
  • C) Base MS for immobile melee champions: 345-350
  • D) Base MS for mobile ranged champions: 325-330
  • E) Base MS for mobile melee champions: 330-335 (All of these numbers would vary on a champion-by-champion basis. However, if youre mobile you have low MS BECAUSE youre mobile no two ways about it)
  1. Tank itemization---->40 resistance, 300HP for most tank items. Effects of items buffed to compensate
  2. Crit: -----> As a mechanic reworked to a 1:1% AD increase. Infinity edge would raise the cap of crit from 100% to 150% allowing for higher intensity crit builds.
  3. Lethality itemization -----> Headhunter passive removed, replaced with 10 out of combat movement speed. Upgraded lethality items have +20 increased movement speed. Duskblade of drakthar nightstalker changed from extra burst to +0.5AD per 1 lethality for 3 seconds after one second of not being seen by enemy vision.

Just my opinions. We need to HEAVILY tone damage back, we need to remove CLASS SPECIFIC itemization and replace it with less specialized pieces. Attack speed, damage amplification, HP/resistance items, Armor penetration, ability power. This would make the game a lot easier to balance in general because builds and itemization would be on a champion-by-champion basis instead of a class-by-class basis.

UnboundHades1 votes

yes

Big Lincoln1 votes

i agree, we should buff bruisers across the board before we make a decision

Naching1 votes

The game rewards the flash kills even the tanks are on troubles many times.

Miror B1 votes

See, I'd personally just like to see a defensive equivalent of roa/tear (something that'd give 400+20hp(x), 35+4MR(x), 25+5armor(x) where x is minutes up to a max of 10). Then we can see more diversity in tank builds aside from "guy buys spirit visage, randy's, stoneplate, and if they're feeling super bold potentially an abyssal mask or frozen heart.

Sohleks1 votes

Everyone starts squishy. Typically start one damage item expecting to end laning phase and knock people down. Then people look at the (EXAMPLE!) Triforce Fizz and ask, when they have no bonus defenses "why can that one shot me." That's because the baseline for life expectancy is pretty low in this game and Triforce is nearly 3733g of damage with a little bit of it being health and utility. Only support characters really aren't lethal on utterly defenseless mid level targets with near 4k gold in damage.

From there a mage or adcarry (or bruiser!) either build more damage to deal with the tank walls. Or they bulk themselves up which is almost always wise. You kinda need to. Other than fighting full defense you don't really NEED more damage. Instead it becomes wiser to raise your life expectancy versus your greatest threats by 50% rather than buy an item that does like 10% more damage. Mainly talking about AP itemization item 3102 and in the past item 3116 item 3157

Your total character strength with an "offense rating of 2" and "defense rating of 2" multiplies to 4 strength as opposed to a 3x1 loudout. In the case of mages their offense specialty items barely promise 10% more damage at best so they frequently build "conservative" stuff. A few mages have overwhelming damage baked into their kits like Cassio they build like ranged AP bruisers. So gross.

There was once a time in league bruisers were consistently the best duelists with their balanced offense/ defense loudout. They still tend to be but require fervor of battle rapidly stacking for them lots of ad as a crutch.

ADC's crit items were recently buffed above the Bork bar that was recently pushed up and now ADCs freely and comfortably rush their end game build. Dunno what to say about that. Positioned properly they have most of their team to cover for them. What happens is when they pick up extra defenses (and also have their support defend especially them) they get more mileage out of every ounce of hp/resist an item gives them than someone who is expected to dive. So why is it special ranged concession have to be made for like duskblade but not hexdrinker for example? Might be because Riot more aggressively tunes damage stats but not defense stats. (same for characters)

After some years the patterns are very predictable

How would I change this? Instead of mandatory defense buys and specs I would raise hp per level across the board. All characters (I think). But lower resists on carry defense hybrid items to be about the same effective life (or whatever is not too much), but emphasize their one off or needs to be properly timed active properties if needed lowering passive durability particularly for ranged mages and carries. Higher hp levels in game would give more headroom for burst items to be good but not overbearing. It would divert carries to building more damage and less defense to meet damage demands + they'd have slightly more comfort to. And I think on the side tanks would have more hp to "scale" their resistances with. IMO tanks need a better late game in particular.

The drawback might be the possible feeling of blandness from if hybrid offense/defense items are too mute to appreciate.

I'm not sure where this puts bruisers, but to me the signs seem to say bruiser champions are underpowered but most stuff in the system that supports those champions are overpowered (and tend to get poached). In my opinion defensive stats regardless of class are overpowered in general because of the way the game is designed atm

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Are mages really the problem? 1 Magic resist item + boots are all I usually need against them.

Meanwhile it often feels like I can never get enough armor to stop a fed AD champ.

Big Lincoln1 votes

the main issue with mages IMO is how much damage they can do across an entire team without much effort. i might make a thread about mages but it'll be different than my usual anti-mage rhetoric

granted i'm kind of hypocritical as an Illaoi main but i don't also have safety, fast casts or CC to pair with it

Wet Dryman1 votes

But you have tankiness, sustain and comparable damage with less gold invested in it, something for something (not that I don't agree, group of champions that is all about AoE mayhem should have more depth to it than spam your spells off cooldown from range).

Penns1 votes

One does not simply reduce damage when i play assassins hehe

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