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I understand many of you prefer DQ, but why do you think SQ and DQ couldn't coexist?

SSShutTheDuckUp··6 votes·615 views

Pretty much the title. I've seen people, saying that they like Dynamic Queue (for whatever reason) and that's why they do not Solo Queue. I cannot understand why. I mean - back until S6 started we had 4 queues for classic: Normal blind, Normal draft, Ranked solo/duo and Ranked 5's. Now we only have 3 - Normal blind, Normal draft, and Ranked DQ. So basically a Solo ranked would simply be the 4th queue, as it used to be up until less than 5 months ago.

And for those of you, who would bring queue timers as an argument i have 2 things to say:

  1. Back then when we had 4 queues queue timers were nor a problem until high diamond, so why would they be now with 4 queues? The player base is very very large, more than enough for even more than 4 queues
  2. Most of you say "Boards are biased, they do not represent community, most people prefer DQ". If that is correct then most of the players would still queue there, so the queue times wouldn't be noticeably changed.

Thank yo all for taking time to read and answer. Hope you all have a wonderful day!

Edit: I was not sure how to write some of the sentences, because i am not a native speaker. Sorry if there are mistakes.

19 Comments

Karma Deified4 votes

Nobody would play Dynamic Queue once Solo Queue is out. Not literally, ofc.

Basically,

  • No solo player in their right mind would join Dynamic Queue over solo queue so 4 man premades wouldn't be possible.
  • So the people that play 4 man will either go solo, drop someone or go as 5 or go to normals where they belong.
  • Dynamic Queue rank will be seen the same way the 3v3 Diamond II rank is when they see solo queue Silver II as their true rank.
  • The stigma will make players rank up in solo queue so they have a legitimate rank to show off rather than the perceived as boosted rank.
  • Additionally, dedicated premades would stick around in dynamic, eventually causing some of the people who are just dicking around with friends or trying to get an easy ride to a specific rank to stop trying.

Basically, we'd be back where we should be. A individual ranked queue and a 5 man ranked queue. Though there would be one plus side to dynamic queue being the new 5v5 ranked. No more 4 bronze, 1 Diamond teams, though it could still be done via smurfs.

SSShutTheDuckUp2 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Lovely Whisper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aUfVwKyk,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-04-19T14:20:05.092+0000) No solo player in their right mind would join Dynamic Queue over solo queue** so **4 man premades wouldn't be possible

So solo players are forced in a game they would no prefer in order for 4 man premades would be possible. TLDR - solo players are supposed to be slaves of the 4-man groups. For me that feels wrong

Narsicus3 votes

Does anyone remember when Teambuilder launched? It was a cool idea that let players play the champions they wanted in the role they wanted, and would match them up with teams that needed that role filled. Only problem is that it was essentially dead on arrival because of its queue times.

Naturally its queue times were going to be higher, it was trying to match players in far more specific ways, but with a decent player base it likely would not have been noticeably different. But it did not have a decent player base because it was competing with blind pick and draft. Naturally its queue times skyrocketed exponentially and few people were willing to wait that long for the system to pair them with a specific group within a smaller population of people.

Riot obviously did not want the same thing to happen with Dynamic queue so they sidestepped the issue by removing the other options which would ensure that DQ had the player base it needed to reduce queue times to reasonable levels.

What it comes down to is that Riot believes that DQ is a healthier way to play the game, that resolving role conflicts beforehand has a significantly positive effect for the players as opposed to the old system. After all role conflicts were one of the main causes of inter group strife before hand and Riot has been working for a while to make a system that solves this issue (see the aforementioned Teambuilder).

But the system only works if it has the player base to support it, otherwise people get annoyed with the long waits and leave for other options, and this is Riot's attempt to solve the problem.

And that is why solo queue and duo queue have trouble coexisting under the current system.

FACE THE WlND2 votes

Split playerbase, queue time through the roof, ranks would consist of different skill levels, a plat Soloq would probably stomp a diamond dynamic queue player.

SSShutTheDuckUp2 votes

There is not problems to have separate ranks, as we have now for 5v5 and 3v3, and how we had for solo/duo, ranked 5's and 3v3 last year.

About queue times - I said in my post why i do not think it would be a problem.

Lauchmelder2 votes

[{quoted}](name=FACE THE WlND,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aUfVwKyk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-19T13:09:47.795+0000)

a plat Soloq would probably stomp a diamond dynamic queue player.

That I doubt.

disregardable2 votes

It can. There's just less benefit to Riot for implementing it, so they won't.

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

One of the big issues is that there would be very few solo players to fill in the gaps, so to speak. Dynamic queue would no longer be able to accept 4-man premades or pair two 2-man premades together.

It isn't so much the number of queues as it is their demographic.

Normal Blind is typically used by new players as they are learning the game, so they don't have to deal with the overhead of champion select.

More experienced players will generally only play Draft mode (Ranked or Normal). However, this does not really split the audience between the queues; one queue is for competitive play while the other is for casual play and/or practice.

The previous Ranked 5s and Ranked solo/due queues shared the same audience fairly well too; players would primarily play solo/duo-queue (if they played ranked at all) and would occasionally play Ranked 5s with friends. That doesn't split the player-base the same way that Dynamic Queue and Solo queue would.

Another possible issue would be devaluing any rank you receive from Dynamic Queue among the player-base. People are already claiming that players are just getting carried to their ranks (even if they have been playing solo in dynamic queues), so it is quite possible that people would just outright dismiss your rank in Dynamic Queue if Solo-queue existed.

That's my perspective anyways.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

But as i said the player-base is pretty pretty huge, so what exactly is the problem with splitting it?

Also one can easily see the difference between 2 ranks - dynamic and solo, as they represent 2 different sets of skills

BastionKross1 votes

The old queues didn't split the playerbase much at all. If you wanted to practice or were new, you played blind pick. If you wanted to practice specifically for ranked, you played draft. Those two modes didn't split the playerbase since both had their own separate uses.

Same with solo/duo vs 5v5. If you just want to rank up alone or with a buddy, you go solo/duo. If you have a group of friends you rank up with, you went 5v5. Not a whole lot of splitting going on there, each queue had it's own specific purpose.

Solo vs dynamic would split the queue heavily. They essentially do the same thing as above, but dynamic would include all possible groups, not just five man groups. So if you had a group of four, and you're looking for that solo to fill in that fifth spot, your queue time would be truly, truly, truly outrageous. Want to play with a friend? You must use dynamic and wait to be matched with a three man, since getting matched with another duo and a solo or three solos would be impossible.

No solo player in his right mind would queue up in dynamic, so that would drive dynamic queue times up since there would be no one to "fill in" gaps in premades. Even matching 2 and 3 together would take a while since you need specifically those sizes of premades.

The lesser issue is the stigma of always being carried in dynamic:

  • Diamond in solo? Wow, you're good at this game!

  • Diamond in dynamic? Wow, your friends are good at this game!

It's not a fair or reasonable stigma, but few stigma are in the first place. It's also not a huge problem, but worth mentioning for the added toxicity it might cause.

trash sion1 votes

Insert Solo, boom. No 4 man premades. Means even more people play solo, queue times go up for DQ and anyone who wants a rank that actually shows their skill gravitates to Solo, and Riot stops making money off of friends queueing together.

Jayblaze1 votes

Im not sure how riot makes money because i play with friends

Erockandroll2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aUfVwKyk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-19T13:09:03.344+0000)

Insert Solo, boom. No 4 man premades. Means even more people play solo, queue times go up for DQ and anyone who wants a rank that actually shows their skill gravitates to Solo, and Riot stops making money off of friends queueing together.

k, I just got this really dumb (and i mean dumb) idea that could fix that problem.

Make Dynamic Q the new place you have to grind when your rank restricted.

trash sion1 votes

I mean it is a form of torture, could work.

Grashnim1 votes

I'm not sure what forums you've been reading, but I've seen far more hatred of "dynamic queue" than support. I think Riot is debating changing the name to "Dynamic Few" next patch.

Sightless661 votes

If you're going to bring up ranked 5's, then it's worth mentioning that the queue times for that could be absolutely horrendous, and the matches were often very unbalanced. They are a good example of the problem with multiple queues, and what happens when one queue is blatantly less supported. If you're telling me that either solo queue or dynamic queue would end up like ranked 5's, then that just isn't worth it.

The other major problem you have is that dynamic queue only works if there are solo players to fill the gaps for all the 2, 3 and 4 man queues, but they have no specific reason to play in dynamic queue over solo queue. Without them, dynamic queue doesn't function. If you make them a new limiting factor by majorly decreasing their numbers in dynamic queue, then you will see significant queue time increases.

Dukues1 votes

not to be a dick but why does anyone think they can co-exist? It just baffles me. Queue times are already insanely high at high elo but then you are going to say "well I think they could have another queue". Like wtf really?

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

I have no problems with me being a dick. So a trade - me not dealing with premades for longer queue time for the premades (those, who i hate dealing with) - I would take any day

Fovere1 votes

We can't really compare the dynamic 5x with the old team 5x, since they were defined teams, fixed rosters, and a single player could be on several teams.

I would think that expanding the team/club concept is the way to go to encourage immersion and competitive play, not removing it entirely alongside solo queue to make "competitive" play more casual.

Dynamic queue is something that could replace normal draft mode, with a separate mmr, as a casual form of competition, but its a mistake to eliminate individual climbers and formal teamplay

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