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The free 5 damage against minions should probably come back

Akali is SO HOT··116 votes·4,602 views

I've noticed that a lot of AP champs that I played had a somewhat difficult, but still doable time csing under turret pre patch. After the patch I've noticed that I've been missing so much cs because the minions keep surviving the auto attacks with less than 5 hp. It's not a problem for champs that build AD early on, but for a lot of AP champs (Leblanc, Ahri, Liss, etc.) this small change seems to be huge.

The reasoning in the patch notes was:

We were worried that the removal of old runes and masteries would make last-hitting too hard, so we gave all champion attacks a bonus 5 damage against lane minions. Over time, it's become clear this wasn't necessary, so we're reverting that change

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-84-notes

I'm not really a fan of this reasoning because I thought it was a good change to help players get cs more easily. Especially in the lower elos, where cs can be low as hell already to start with, it was a good change for players that have a harder time getting cs. I'm sure higher skilled players don't need the 5 damage as much, but I think the damage is huge for a lot of champs and especially for players that are less skilled at the game. The change didn't seem to be hurting the game at all so I think taking out this mechanic was unnecessary.

62 Comments

Slythion44 votes

Playing Anivia for the first 2-3 waves feels really bad against anyone who has any form of push potential at all, that 5damage would mean a lot and I'd appreciate it if it came back as well

XLC26 votes

You mean you don't like having to auto attack melee minions twice after two tower hits to be able to kill them on a champ with an AA speed slower than paint drying?

Disulfiram1 votes

You're complaining for Anivia, but Fiddlesticks had to do that even before patch 8.4 ...

Slythion1 votes

Karthus be like :^)

Iffy Jarl6 votes

{quoted}

Playing Anivia for the first 2-3 waves feels really bad against anyone who has any form of push potential at all, that 5damage would mean a lot and I'd appreciate it if it came back as well

well Anivia I think is a special case post 6 she has like one of the best if not the best wave clear in the game

Slythion1 votes

You're very right, I'm just saying that it still feels bad even trying to function before 6

Fleiryn1 votes

{quoted}

Playing Anivia for the first 2-3 waves feels really bad against anyone who has any form of push potential at all, that 5damage would mean a lot and I'd appreciate it if it came back as well

You can actually shove waves with anivia's q rather well early on

Slythion1 votes

I'll try that tbh, thank you!

GAMIAS EUNE7 votes

Anivia before 6 should be punishable, and she alrdy has a revive passive.

Slythion1 votes

You're not wrong. Actually, I specifically said "feel" because I wanted to stay out of balance discussion and talk more about enjoyment or fluidity

Ashen Rider24 votes

More champs should have autos like Swain . For a mage, he has a fantastic auto attack, it's very fluid and feels great. Anivia in particular should probably get an updated auto, because 1. She can't farm with an ability early on like Karthus can, and 2. Her current auto looks like garbage.

ShaolinToilet3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ashen Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aRFIvNlA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-23T21:01:28.355+0000)

More champs should have autos like Swain . For a mage, he has a fantastic auto attack, it's very fluid and feels great. Anivia in particular should probably get an updated auto, because 1. She can't farm with an ability early on like Karthus can, and 2. Her current auto looks like garbage.

Not all champions need good auto attack animations

SangreDeNoche3 votes

{quoted}

Not all champions need good auto attack animations

They didn't say they should, just that those like anivia who don't have a farming ability early, have slow autos, AND don't do enough damage to kill minions properly under tower. With those restrictions you basically just have anivia and MAYBE fiddle.

SweedishGunner9 votes

Only thing is after 6 Anivia nukes waves, she also scales like crazy. Having a weak auto early seems like an ok trade off.

ShaolinToilet4 votes

{quoted}

They didn't say they should, just that those like anivia who don't have a farming ability early, have slow autos, AND don't do enough damage to kill minions properly under tower. With those restrictions you basically just have anivia and MAYBE fiddle.

Yeah if you give her easier auto attacks that's actually removing skill from anivia mains or good players in general.

AmazoX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ashen Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aRFIvNlA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-23T21:01:28.355+0000)

More champs should have autos like Swain . For a mage, he has a fantastic auto attack, it's very fluid and feels great.

Taliyah has the best Auto attack animation out of all the AP champions with ranged AA.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

Velkoz

Doozku1 votes

and Azir AurelionSol. Maybe Ryze too but not as good as those 2

Tails90161 votes

As a bronzie, I will admit I have canceled his auto's too many times

Velzard of Koz1 votes

LOL, me too but it still fells somehow better to use for me.

Doozku1 votes

Azir AurelionSol?

Fairyfleur1 votes

Zyra / Orianna

Sire Hippington17 votes

yea, from all the 'powercreep' we have going on, riot decides to adress the about only one that actually is good for the game...

Ixoziel10 votes

It has screwed with my last hitting so much because I got used to the extra 5 damage. Now I have to relearn how to last hit properly on all champions. Extremely annoying.

Almighty8 votes

#Yes! +1

Thank you for posting this. I play alot of mages mid (Liss, LeBlanc, Ahri, Karma, Xerath), and last hitting has been dreadful.

Riot, not all of us play Zed/Yasuo mid lane. Not all of us play ADC. Just because they don't struggle with last-hitting as much in the early game, doesn't mean no champion struggles.

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

Ifneth7 votes

It made CS a lot more consistent for AP midlaners.

Speeedy7 votes

for mid laners they should have their base AD stats boosted to be able to follow the farm under turret mechanic at lvl 2 (melee 2 tower shots then AA; ranged minion AA Tower AA) this does not need to be applied to ADC at all (coming from an ADC main). My big problem with this change is now some mid laners cant follow this pattern till lvl 4 or 5 while others can at lvl 1 or 2. You are inherently making certain champs picked over others just off this. I feel this is something that should kinda be equal for everyone in mid. This way you are picking a burst mage, a zone mage etc. to fit the team comp.

Raven Redeemed6 votes

It was a hidden mechanic which I don’t like, but other that I agree. It’s pretty hard to cs with some AP champs and supports.

I’ve always found it a bit strange that cs’ing is fairly difficult and rewarding considering the fact that it is just a mechanical interaction with ai. Rotating and wave manipulation is fine because you are indirectly interacting with the other team.

P0IS0N IVY6 votes

Yeah...I don't like having to auto minions twice now under the tower after two tower shots early game as an AP mage. Miss a ton of CS and nothing I can do about it unless I play someone who pushes.

Muzét6 votes

At least they could give some sort of execute on item 1056 item 1082 so mages could receive the help needed without impacting AD.

Disulfiram2 votes

I'm considering starting with item 1083 ... you see, we already get a lot of adaptive damage from runes. Starting with item 1083 means that the adaptive damage becomes AD, and later on after building some AP it will seamlessly transition into bonus AP.

Muzét1 votes

You can with some champions more than other. It depends on what you want to play.

OrigMorjumba4 votes

playing brand mid is a nightmare. Your auto doesn't last hit melee minions after 2 tower shots.

Douglas Funnie3 votes

No, learn how to cs. Stop asking Riot to hold your hand.

Cavesloth3 votes

Take my upvote sir.

Infernape3 votes

Or they could stick it on Doran's Ring like they did Doran's Shield. Not all AP champs can afford to waste their abilities early on to farm. Especially if they're a champ that gets pushed in a lot.

YuGiHo3 votes

item 2403 fixes this for most champions i think

Modl Ryden l2 votes

With the 9% attack speed reduced from combining precision + sorc/dom and the removal of the 5 damage to minions on-hit,I've been losing out on a lot of cs as a marksman. Not to mention I've also had to put in a lot of focus to last hit wheras I'd be pinging the map for junglers positions or typing out multiple mias.

Ahri Baka2 votes

Tbh I didn't know aboout this whole AD thing untill I read patch notes , but yeah my farm is being shitty lately because of that change , Idk why they removed it , mages will need it !

VoraciousX2 votes

Playing as Katarina at levels 1-4 is really frustrating as well. It sucks to have a minion be at so low health you can see one more minion auto attack killing it, and then your auto attack doing just enough for the minion to kill it right after. It happened so many times early my last game. Barely was able to farm until I got a longsword(I've been starting Dark Seal to make up for the nerf to Kat).

Vizulix2 votes

Just gonna leave this index of autoattacks needed to CS under tower here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7zfkhj/farming_under_turret_for_mages/

WrÆth2 votes

I wanted to make a thread like this, but I thought people would just downvote me to hell for being "bad at csing".

But yeah, it legitimately feels really bad csing on ap champs now. I've found myself missing much more cs then usual, and I don't think that reverting the change would really be that much of a problem.

Trias0001 votes

For AP champions we're essentially back to the old rune system in this regard. So unless you were using AD marks on AP champions (which was a bad habit probably), nothing's really changed.

Altiverse1 votes

They should just bring it back for champions that currently have adaptive AP or HP (aka no AD or AS).

The Trent1 votes

Isn't this why they added in minion dematerializer lol? Just use all of them on the melee minions and you're set. CSing is a huge part of the game so taking this is probably better than other runes if ur having trouble csing.

valkyrie991 votes

Minion were complaining, Rito had to nerf champions>

PopcornBunni1 votes

Not sure why it was removed in the first place. Before Masteries Renamed, Savagery granted that 5 bonus damage to both autos and spells. It was added in when that mastery was removed since it was a near-universal take already. Removing it just makes the snowball champions rushing big AD numbers snowball even more against their lane opponents that can't clear to catch up in level/gold a fast.

XˆAˆNˆA1 votes

Started to play my beloved Leblanc again after the revert and thats how I ended up here XD. Bringing back those 5 extra damage against minions would be great.

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