Having more farm + less deaths than all my lanes while simultaineously being 1-2 levels below them doesn't feel very good tbh.
By the time you finish the first full clear of the jungle + scuttle you end up level 3.5 while mid and top are level 5... it's pretty dumb
The only scenario where i am not underleveled is when laners screw up and lose a ton of xp due to deaths and roaming.
kuzzy4725 votesJg is so punishing that if you get invaded and killed it's kinda over for you. You can't contest the other jg anymore and he takes over everything and the blame starts.
JuiceBoxP10 votesI agree so much...
WrÆth1 votesYeah lol, everyone just starts red now and does red->krugs->scuttle->gank->your blue. Problem is that if your team doesn't defend your blue and their team does you literally just insta lose the game, theres almost no way you come back from that big of an exp adv.
youthere20 votesI mained jungle for practically every season since beta, but not this season.
I find it too hard to catch up if you fall even slightly behind the enemy jg, nevermind laners. With the loss of the Jungle ward items, stealing enemy mob camps is far too risk free. Combine that with respawn rates, low exp, etc etc, you're screwed.
Meanwhile the lanes are crying, not realizing how losing one camp can affect you so much.
JuiceBoxP10 votesYeah, a jungler that has the lead on you and invades you is pretty much game over unless your team helps you counter his invades...which we know doesn't happen alot.
eunekid4201 votes[deleted]
Beerstein4 votes..Removed by Moderation..
I've played at a range of different ELO/MMRs in my time, and the reason everyones opinion is legitimate is that honestly, the way the game plays is vastly different at different levels of play, so the game plays out a lot differently. For this reason, someone at your level or 1 higher usually has better advice than someone way higher.
It's good to take tips from much better players, but if you try to apply them directly instead of adapt them to how others around you play, you'll have a bad day.
Think of it this way, 10 people in a bronze game, all are bad. If you see someone doing really stupid crap, you should instantly realize 2 things.
Honestly, all these "pay for training" things are crap. If you really want to learn you eat humble pie to the face and start trading information at your own level and take it 1 step at a time, not pay some nerd $1000 for a "quick path to challenger"
AetherArising4 votesI find it funny that you try to rank shame, yet you are on what seems to be clearly a bought or boosted account, since you've played for only 1 season and only have 3 games of co-op vs AI 3v3s with heal-tp, yet you somehow, SOMEHOW, hit plat 1 with an astonishing 80% w/r in season 9.
So either you're hiding your name behind a smurf because you're a coward, or you aren't some "wise" high elo sage. Most real high-ranks don't flex on the boards, if they say something smart it actually holds real weight lmao.
Ambitious Minnow2 votes[deleted]
eunekid4202 votes[{quoted}](name=Ambitious Minnow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aQ2rsGnj,comment-id=000100010002,timestamp=2019-04-28T20:52:05.728+0000)
..Removed by Moderation..
What has numbers to do with anything? In terms of power jungle is still the role with the biggest impact. That hasn't changed at all and probably won't. Nowdays it just takes more adaptability to jungle effectively.
Ambitious Minnow6 votesWhat has numbers to do with anything? In terms of power jungle is still the role with the biggest impact. That hasn't changed at all and probably won't. Nowdays it just takes more adaptability to jungle effectively.
What has numbers to do with anything?
Uhm, everything? 20% is a huge change, they could have started with 2%, 5%, 10% at absolute most, but no, they jump to 20% reduction. It's like having a global champ all-game skill cast on you. 20% reduction in experience gain is HUGE. They would have seen an impact with even 2 or 5%, let alone TWENTY FUCKING PERCENT.
FSRER7 votesYou know what made jungle totally unbalaced? Tower plating. Think of it. Jungler ganks a lane, if the gank is successful he can just stay and destroy platings getting gold and xp for just ganking properly. Riot realised that and instead of adressing everything related to it they just said "hmm, we could fix the problem buuuuuuut....We have to make new skins to make more money so lets just nerf EVERY FUCKING JUNGLER and make also once and for all make tanks dissappear from jungle".
Beerstein1 votesYou know what made jungle totally unbalaced? Tower plating. Think of it. Jungler ganks a lane, if the gank is successful he can just stay and destroy platings getting gold and xp for just ganking properly. Riot realised that and instead of adressing everything related to it they just said "hmm, we could fix the problem buuuuuuut....We have to make new skins to make more money so lets just nerf EVERY FUCKING JUNGLER and make also once and for all make tanks dissappear from jungle".
This is why I bring demolish on Amumu. Plate tax. But I've been playing JG since very early on (probably season 3) and it's never been weaker.
I also secondary support which IMO is a higher impact role and just feels a lot stronger. Though since this season I've never been autofilled and always get matches almost instantly...It's almost like there are no junglers left.
lil koda4 votesAs an adc main, the jungle xp nerfs sucked ass, for all laners too, constantly both junglers have to ignore there camps in favor for 24/7 ganks, its not fun ti play jungle, and its not fun to play laners.
H00KIE4 votesYeah I've tried jungling this season, its godawful. Either constantly gank succesfully or be super far behind. People constantly steal your camps and you pretty much lose by default. Make it so farming your camps is actually rewarding.
H00KIE4 votesThe argument is not that jungling cannot be impactful y'all, the argument is that jungling takes too much skill/a lot of luck (praying people push their waves so they're easy ganks, pray your teammates know how to properly follow up with your gank attempts) to be impactful.
When I jungle, the fact I'm behind is constantly looping in my head. I do my first clearing path red side, then go to top to gank but fail - the guy flashes, or just isn't pushed up, etc. My first thought is "great, now I'm even more behind", and it just continues on. If you're not constantly seeing action, you're behind. If you aren't killing people left and right, you're behind. At best you're barely even with bot lane, you won't catch up to mid or top. It's ridiculous how unrewarding the jungle is to play.
And say I'm low level or whatever, but that's the point. No role should need godly amounts of experience, skill, and even luck to be able to impact the game at all.
JuiceBoxP1 votesWell said, nothing to add.
Marlusia3 votesPersonally I want them to make jungle less desirable for laners to take, but better viable for the actual jungler.
JuiceBoxP2 votes
- Can we also take a moment to acknowledge how laners take jungle camps mid to late game, and they refuse to let you take minions from lane?
Haha. Classic.
They take all your jungle, but when your top laner is at bot lane and you go to top lane to farm you get a "?" pingfest
Marlusia2 votesHey remember the time when you take your own red buff or blue buff and either mid or bot thinks the world just ended for them.
JuiceBoxP1 votesLol... i usually give it to the carry... if i'm the carry i take the buffs
Marlusia2 votesWhat I'm trying to say is that people think they are entitled to the buff, when realistically its the equivalent of me running into lane and taking their farm without asking.
JuiceBoxP2 votesOh... yeah, i agree. But i try to let it slide when people take my farm because as a jungler you need to be mature adult... for some odd reason... You know, unless you want your mid or adc to int because their 2/10 ass can't put the buff to good use
Always angry tbh2 votesWhat I recall is that in 8.10 I think they greatly nerfed wards. After that ganking after the first ward was just too easy. Also, damage is still way too high so if your opponent laner gets ahead because of this you'll just get 1shot, hate the game, hate the enemy jungler, hate your own jungler for not sitting your lane and cry on Reddit, the boards and in tickets.
But in all seriousness, the exp nerfs shoved so many junglers into the garbage tier spot which caused the problem of Kha being way too strong a while back. (Haven't seen him much recently, not sure if it's still the case.) It also made jungle so much less enjoyable for me. I constantly need to take breaks from the role because it's become too stressful after what, the third exp nerf? There's honestly more ways to slow down junglers: Increase camp HP, slightly reduce their damage and slightly reduce the respawn time to compensate the extra time spent. Boom, junglers have less time to gank your lane but they won't be 2 levels behind on the enemy Nasus or Darius. They also won't be 3 levels behind on EVERYONE when they get killed at their buff and have 2 camps taken. :)))))))))))
Another step to getting some tanks back into the game wouldn't be buffing them a lot to ruin ADC lifes before 30 minutes but actually allowing them to be able to contest the jungle again. But hey, that's just a theory.
Clementine2 votesJungle still has the most impact in the game at high elo
JuiceBoxP2 votesI agree, save for the high elo. A good jungler can really influence the game ALOT, at any elo. More than your laners can.
imo support is on the same level of game influence. a good support and jungler is key for winning games. the other 3 are just damage bots. Jungler provides security for objectives and support provides key utility and vision - much more important than raw output damage IMO.
the problem is, jungle right now is punishing. pulling off what you did before they nerfed jungle exp to the ground is much harder when you are 2 levels below everyone.
Hell, if your top laner is losing it can even be 4 levels below the enemy top laner.
I find myself roflstomping games as jungler with 10+/2/10+ scores while being at the same level as the other laners... where if i was a mid laner in the same situation i would be 3 levels above everyone
Amor Omnia 2 votesJunglers shoud dictate the match outcome if Riot wants League to be truly strategy oriented game.
JuiceBoxP1 votesJunglers shouldn't DICTATE it.... it's a team game after all. Junglers naturally have more influence (imo) on the match because they are all around the map, where laners are mostly on a single lane.
Although this high influence steeply declined by reducing their gained xp because you can't really gank someone who is 3 levels above you - you are an easy kill for him. you can't even zone him out of objectives because you are a lot less powerful than him.
Junglers are more dependent on their team than ever.
Amor Omnia 1 votesokay...
WrÆth2 votesThis is the first season where we haven't seen junglers be the most popular role in the top 10 players of each region. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, variety is nice and all, but when the role supposedly having the most impact is almost devoid from super high elo, I think somethings wrong.
JuiceBoxP1 votesThis so true... It is so easy getting jungle. Every time i queue up for it get it in under 40 seconds.
Mid on the other hand... i get filled into jungle/support nonestop when i feel like playing mid.
Maybe out of 5 matches of queuing up Mid/jg i get 3 jungle , one adc and one support
Cevrad1 votesJust looked at your account, you are just bad at pathing, take Krugs on spawn throughout the game. Sure early you are gonna be about a level down, but you catch up really quick with proper pathing. By the time you are 11, lanes are generally behind you in EXP. The nerf was to stop ganks at level 3, and to stop level 6 ganks bottom when they level 4 (didn't actually do a good job with this one because it still happens in like 70% of games).
JuiceBoxP7 votesWould love to know how exactly you just "looked at my account" and decided i am bad at pathing.
I usually take red first - this splits into two from here
either do scuttle directly after red and go to gank level 2 then krugs
OR
if the jungler is a level 2 fighter(lee sin/xin zhao) i go to krugs after red and go to the scuttle that was not taken by the enemy jungler and go for a level 3 gank
The rest is entirely dependent on what lanes are pushing, what lanes don't got vision and what lanes are pushed in. Really, based on what you are saying that my pathing is bad?
It also doesn't matter. Even if i do a full jungle clear from level 1 i end up level 3 and my top and mid are level 5. The amount of exp in the jungle is just sad. I can have the most farm in the game and be 1-2 levels down from my laners.
eunekid4201 votes[deleted]
JuiceBoxP2 votesKeep going with the attitude of demeaning, belittling and disrespecting everyone.
You'll make it far in life.
OlympusSworn3 votes..Removed by Moderation..
I find it funny how players say yea, you say that you killed all the camps, but you must not have done it right cause your silver. Makes sense
eunekid4201 votesI find it funny how players say yea, you say that you killed all the camps, but you must not have done it right cause your silver. Makes sense
In addition to selecting a path, there are several other things to take in account when clearing the jungle:
Ability/resource management. Do you want to waste mana to kill the camp a little faster but run out of mana soon after? Do you need that long cd spell to clear the camp or save it for the gank?
Pulling the camp. Between autoattacks, you should cycle back and forth from the camp to minimize the damage you take from monsters and wait off cooldowns.
Effective clear. You can put the pull indicator to its limit and finish the camp with a spell while already walking away. This saves time. Also with some champions you can clear two camps such as blue and gromp at the same time.
Smite usage. Save it to contest an early scuttler or need it elsewhere? Use chilling smite during a gank and risk losing a dragon later?
General knowledge. Rift Scuttler loses its resists when hit by hard CC. Hit Herald in the eye from behind for more damage. Pull dragon out of the pit so it's harder to steal. Don't stay behind Baron or you die faster.
The list could go on. As you see, killing camps isn't as simple as just "killing camps". With all the other decisionmaking related to jungling it requires a lot of brainwork to jungle correctly. And I doubt silvers know/execute every action I mentioned.
Valðr1 votesSo i'm not silver but my highest rank is Gold I, just want to say I execute everything you mentioned perfectly every game. Doesn't stop me from ending up behind every match to my mid lane or top lane, who level way more quicker. In my opinion Jungle is the worst role in this game right now, if a enemy top laner or mid laner gets ahead its insanely punishing and they can end up 1-2 levels higher than you after your jungle clear. This makes it hard to gank because it makes a possible 2v2 impossible. I really think that jungle exp needs to be on par or just a bit behind top/mid lane. Bottom lane will always be the most behind in levels because youre trying to have your ADC farm efficiently and become a Carry late game, while having a champion that can protect him from other lane. But when I finish a Jungle clear and get to level 5 on 2nd clear, and the enemy top laner with one kill is level 7, there's not much I can do in a 2v2 situation. Honestly its just dumb how Jungle gets punished so hard by your own laners doing bad. Ive played Jungle for 3 years and I couldve gotten Platinum but ive never committed, but this season is awful. I feel like nothing I do matters. I had a game as J4 where I got 6 assists between all my lanes within the first 10 minutes and we still lost. Because Jungle just doesnt hold any weight except for contesting Baron/herald/Dragon and helping assist with vision/ganks.
OlympusSworn1 votesIn addition to selecting a path, there are several other things to take in account when clearing the jungle:
Ability/resource management. Do you want to waste mana to kill the camp a little faster but run out of mana soon after? Do you need that long cd spell to clear the camp or save it for the gank?
Pulling the camp. Between autoattacks, you should cycle back and forth from the camp to minimize the damage you take from monsters and wait off cooldowns.
Effective clear. You can put the pull indicator to its limit and finish the camp with a spell while already walking away. This saves time. Also with some champions you can clear two camps such as blue and gromp at the same time.
Smite usage. Save it to contest an early scuttler or need it elsewhere? Use chilling smite during a gank and risk losing a dragon later?
General knowledge. Rift Scuttler loses its resists when hit by hard CC. Hit Herald in the eye from behind for more damage. Pull dragon out of the pit so it's harder to steal. Don't stay behind Baron or you die faster.
The list could go on. As you see, killing camps isn't as simple as just "killing camps". With all the other decisionmaking related to jungling it requires a lot of brainwork to jungle correctly. And I doubt silvers know/execute every action I mentioned.
All of these statements are true, yet I am hardstuck bronze and I knew everything you just said. The rank has very little meaning, I can play on the level of a gold or plat player, so dont say just because someone is in silver they dont know what they are doing.
Galaxyburstz1 votesThen I can return home
: D
Luigi Tortellini1 votesThey can't, damage creep is so through the heavens at this point that even an under-leveled jungler can be enough to guarantee a kill on a laner regardless of summoners. It doesn't matter if you're under turret, it doesn't matter if you haven't fallen behind, it doesn't matter if you're watching the minimap and see him coming on your brush ward, if 2 champions proc electrocute on you and 1 ignite, you are going to die.
Because of this, and because Riot only continues to damage creep, Riot has gutted the jungler to compensate.
It would help if you could deep ward, but no you can't buy wards anymore, and your only option is 1 control ward which will be killed the moment it is found, and a trinket which doesn't last long enough to be worth deep warding with.
Tower plating is another thing. I still can't wrap my head around the stupidity of tower plating, and how that was their response to us asking for turrets to stop being worthless. They're still worthless, but now they're also gold pinatas for the enemy team. Would honestly have been better for them to just do nothing.
JuiceBoxP2 votesFrom what i understood, tower plating was to lengthen the early game.... which was like 7-8 minutes at best... now it is around the 15 minute mark ....
i would prefer it without the gold prize tho.
0 Hogapu1 votesThe only scenario where i am not underleveled is when laners screw up and lose a ton of xp due to deaths and roaming.
It just feels normal that a role that has the innate ability to roam will be underleveled, compared to a lane that never moved and had no impact on the game
Most junglers could 1v1 laners anytime in the game last season, which was like not acceptable, and this was partly because of the high xp levels
People are comparing jungle to the god broken jungle we had last year, which was god awful to play against And also comparing junglers to laners : they don't serve the same role whatsoever
Just acknowledge how impactful jungle currently is already ..
JuiceBoxP2 votes[{quoted}](name=MTFN Azor ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aQ2rsGnj,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-04-29T19:39:41.040+0000) compared to a lane that never moved and had no impact on the game
someone on your team has no impact on a match? what did you just say dude..
Most junglers could 1v1 laners anytime in the game last season, which was like not acceptable, and this was partly because of the high xp levels
Why was it not acceptable? seems totally reasonable that one champion could 1vs1 any other champion in the game. depending on the circumstances and how each one played it out.
Yes, some champions are better at 1vs1 in close range, some are better at at range via kiting, but it doesn't really matter.
People are comparing jungle to the god broken jungle we had last year, which was god awful to play against
The jungler at season 8 was.. strong... not broken. A smaller nerf to exp would've done. not a whopping 20% outright.
Basically rito game(s) since ever : take something strong , cripple it and throw it in the dumpster (ye'know except yasuo riven and vayne)
And also comparing junglers to laners : they don't serve the same role whatsoever
How does that even matter? why should a jungler be 2 levels below all the laner by default regardless of how well he plays?
Just acknowledge how impactful jungle currently is already ..
Not very i'm sorry to say..
0 Hogapu1 votessomeone on your team has no impact on a match? what did you just say dude..
not sure to understand..?
Why was it not acceptable? seems totally reasonable that one champion could 1vs1 any other champion in the game. depending on the circumstances and how each one played it out.
Yes, some champions are better at 1vs1 in close range, some are better at at range via kiting, but it doesn't really matter.
Would you be OK with a support going full roaming and being able to 1v1 you when in 'fair conditions' (like both being equally fed and 100% life or something like this) ? This is exactly how I feel about junglers. They can do everyhing they want : farming and roaming all at once, and thus have the biggest impact on the game. They are given such a huge carry potential early on, that they should not be able to equal another champion that sacrificed its early game to farm, instead of impacting the game.
A laner that is behind should indeed lose 1v1 to junglers, but I really don't see at what point it is acceptable for a 
to be able to 1v1 mid and top laners at any point in the game (especially last season). but currently we still have those "balanced shits" 
that can do the exact same (not as early as graves could tho)
How does that even matter? why should a jungler be 2 levels below all the laner by default regardless of how well he plays?
In order to be balanced, every role has to have an equal power distribution. You can't ask for a role where you can do literally everything, to do it just as well as other roles that are more limited (and thus should be rewarded in a way, which is currently true)
And just as a reminder : season 5-6, a jungler would always have the same level as the botlane (in fair conditions once again) which felt great.
JuiceBoxP2 votesYou are talking about specific champions which were strong.
It is not fair to punish an entire role because certain champions are over performing.
Yeah, season 8 graves was borderline broken. Nerf graves, or kayn, or khazix, or j4 not all the junglers in the game - which some deserve buffs, btw..
Also, i'm not saying junglers should be stronger than laners in every single way, but the current state is exactly the opposite.
Being underleveled in this game means you are significantly weaker because levels bring tons of stats
ValiantKiller1 votesAnd all of that cause they don't want to nerf level 2 cheese champions like 
etc
kingDeDeDarius1 votesOn the flip side, pre jungle xp nerf, a jgler could hit lvl 2 or 3 before you even hit level 2 in toplane and easily can you and destroy you less than two mins into the game with no drawback if the gank failed. On second thought, your idea to revert the co nerfs sounds not too healthy for the game.