So errr when is it right to use winrates as an argument?

Naomi CoffeeGoat·Dec 21, 2015·1 votes·412 views

I constantly see downvotes on people comparing winrates and being told those don't matter that much and other times I'm seeing arguments use winrates and get upvotes and people agree.

7 Comments

disregardableDec 21, 20152 votes

Winrates matter when there's not something that would discount the fact that the winrates matter. Thresh is the common example, right. His winrate is constantly below 50%, but that's only because he has a ridiculously high pickrate. People that don't main support will play him and fail, very often. The winrate doesn't reflect the champion's capacity.

But pick a different champion, like say Katarina. Her pick/ban rate is average, the players picking her in plat+ are mostly experienced with her, so her winrate is a decent indication of how balancecd she is.

But! That doesn't necessarily mean that her having a 48% winrate means she's unbalanced, either. There are quite a few champions that are designed to work very well in specific situations, like herself, and you need to keep in mind that they won't always be against a team without crowd control to stop her ultimate. That in itself would lower her winrate.

ModWulf HelhammerDec 21, 20152 votes

When a champion has a high pick rate * and * an unusually high win rate, that is a pretty good indicator something is wrong

RebonackDec 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When a champion has a high pick rate * and * an unusually high win rate, that is a pretty good indicator something is wrong

This, pretty much.

Does a champion have a high pickrate and a high win rate? Then they are probably over-tuned for what they do in the Elo you're looking at.

Does a champion have a high pickrate and a low win rate? Go check the win rate of people who have lots of experience with them. Then check who they counter. You'll probably find the reason for their pick-rate there.

Does a champion have a low pickrate and a high win rate? Then they're a niche pick and working as intended.

Does a champion have a low pickrate and a low win rate? Then Riot fucked up somewhere.

ErdamonDec 21, 20151 votes

When you're a biased Lee main that will try to justify him not being op with as many meaningless reasons as possible

Sona PingDec 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So errr when is it right to use winrates as an argument?

Win-rates aren't an argument, by definition, They are just data so the answer to your question really is "Never". The problem with winrates is that people make an argument that they want and then post a percentage and say "Look! That means whatever I wrote is right!" But you see, it doesn't mean that because they give no reason as to why that number is logically linked to their argument or worse, fabricate a scenario to link that they also don't have any evidence of actually occurring. It's bad, biased research.

"downvotes on people comparing winrates and being told those don't matter that much and other times I'm seeing arguments use winrates and get upvotes and people agree." Don't pay too much attention to that; that is not about win-rates. The up/down voting would be usually based more on the argument or simple reactionary knee-jerk voting that they would up-vote no matter what they said.

Irelia BotDec 21, 20151 votes

They matter when a champ suddenly goes from say 48% win rate to a 58% win rate for no good reason.

Examples of this could be devourer WW in preseason 5 and Quinn after getting too many buffs this preseason.

This does happen to lesser extents such as malphite, Mundo and Voli who saw a solid 5 to 8% win rate increase for no reason other then the item changes with 5.22