I can agree he needs a rework, but seriously isn't his drain tank status something Riot hates the fuck out of and makes him a balance nightmare? My heart goes to Aatrox players and his spots in the meta, but I really don't think they can just buff him and expect Aatrox to come out okay without requiring heavy changes to his kit.
48983507DEL143 votesExactly. His kit right now is toxic. If he was changed healthily, I would play him every game. He's my favorite champion thematically, but holy shit he's either cancer or useless. I wish he'd get a rework sometime before the diving fighter changes. He's waited too long.
GULAG 4 U4 votesThey should make a temp solution for him but rito deosn't bother.
Holgranth12 votesHow? How do you temp solve him? I have never heard an easy solution for 
or
that leaves them viable but not cancer. Genuinely curious.
Tobias Brackner16 votesObviously that's Riot's problem to fix. It's the job of the community to just set arbitrary standards for how Riot should perform based on how upset they are in any given day.
Elikain4 votesLeague community is like PMS women. Their logic governed by their emotional states and confirmation bias towards a specific champion not getting some love.
Some champions aren't in a spot where they can be reliably buffed because it would make them more frustrating to deal with so the best course of action is to wait for their update/rework. These champions are often binary champions, where they have one quality and purpose in the game and if they reliably are able to do it, they're pick of ban champions and if they fail, they're forgotten for eons.
#Aka "1 or 0" champions.
It's exactly the reason why Riot's class updates have taken a turn where every champion gets something else to do in a team alongside their primary class goal, which offers diversity and different experience with each of them.
dapositiveviking6 voteswoah, no need to bring in that really shitty analogy
Elikain2 votesIt's a perfectly sound analogy. No one is asking the question "why", everyone who comes here and has woes about a specific champion, always has a doomsday theory about Riot and how they don't give a damn about the champion(s) in question. It's tiring to come here every day and be subjected to the same pessimistic opinion of the top posts, the game isn't black and white as everyone thinks it is.
Riot doesn't have the resources to overhaul 50 champions at the same time and running around like headless chickens and slapping random buffs/nerfs on champions doesn't make sense, unless people want everyone to end up like juggernaughts.
dapositiveviking5 votesit's a shitty analogy based on a stereotype. you can make your argument about the board's disposition without it.
Killstrado2 votesI mean it's probably not a good comparison (calling it an analogy is completely wrong) to use because people's feelings are to fragile these days. Also not a Stereotype but biology and proven fact through chemical imbalances.
Snowplosion6 votesThe temporary solution is have him weak as shit...
Elikain5 votesIf they buffed him right now, he'd be a melee Vladimir with 2 lives + on steroids.
Rian2 votesIf riot think drain tanks are toxic why did they extend vladimir and swains drain tank gameplay style?
manbearswine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0RcnyqYq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-11T23:07:42.157+0000)
Exactly. His kit right now is toxic.
People literally(and I mean literally) call every fucking champion in this game toxic, what's so special about aatrox that we can buff things like yasuo, le blanc and soraka but can't buff aatrox?
48983507DEL11 votesAatrox's entire ideal of being a fighter who can do a lot of damage, build tanky, and heal back whatever damage he takes anyways, all while having a good amount of team utility and the theme of the "dark horse" champion, able to win fights that seem unwinnable.
bill8420 votesWell I mean Graves is currently a better drain tank than he is which is pretty pitiful.
Bladerunner77775 votesWell that's kinda what Riot wanted:
Graves is a tough guy, he was reworked to be a true grit cowboy instead of some sissy ADC
MLDzXnRRR15 votesThere are many champions that can draintank now and they aren't even considered broken.
+ every ADC lategame with BT
Tobias Brackner3 votesJust watch Aatrox slap something without getting hit back.
His heal is COMICAL, you can't afford to buff with that shit or even risk making it good.
Champion Skin2 votesYou can buff his W damage after all he can't actually use it while taking advantage of the W healing
Tobias Brackner1 votesI've found the dmg on his W to be one of the most difficult things to ever land, and I think they might be afraid that if they do that people will do that "build straight tank and shit dmg like crazy" that seems to be so popular (and a source of A LOT of complaining from the boards)
Tychusfindlay9192 votes[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0RcnyqYq,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-12T14:24:47.991+0000)
I've found the dmg on his W to be one of the most difficult things to ever land, and I think they might be afraid that if they do that people will do that "build straight tank and shit dmg like crazy" that seems to be so popular (and a source of A LOT of complaining from the boards)
Then you just buff ratios instead of bases. Prevents tank builds. At most, promotes bruiser builds.
Champion Skin2 votesHow? If Aatrox builds tank and relies on his W damage then when he needs healing and needs to switch his W he pretty much lose most of his damage and becomes mostly harmless and easily ignored as his CC isn't great
Also if Aatrox builds full tank he would be incredibly reliant on his passive and ult for attack speed because without them his attack speed wouldn't be that good meaning he wouldn't proc his W all that often (at level 18 without his passive stacked and R he only procs his W about once every 3 seconds... with his passive fully stacked it is a bit less then once every 2 seconds)
Also the moment he jumps in with Q he loses 10% of his current health (max health if he initiates with it) and 5% from his E and that hurts a lot if he isn't healing from lifesteal (building tank) and he isn't healing with his W (using it for damage)
Tobias Brackner1 votesbecomes mostly harmless and easily ignored as his CC isn't great
Until he Heals up and he goes back to dmg mode.
Champion Skin1 votesthe problem is that while tank AAtrox is healing up his team is probably dying around him as it is almost like it is 4v5 for 2-6 seconds (1-4 heal procs)
Tobias Brackner1 votesSo what you are saying is that depending on how strong his heal/dmg is...he's either useless or OP...kind of like his current problem...
Champion Skin1 votesWell what I am saying is that Tank AAtrox is kind of bad because his kit doesn't have all that much utility so he is rather bad without any damage/attack speed items
Staying alive isn't all that useful if you can't do much for your team while being alive though it isn't horrible if the enemy for some reason focus AAtrox despite him not having much threat or utility
Tobias Brackner1 votesSo then we go back to the original point of "needs complete rework"
IGotScuttleCrabs3 votesNot sure why you were downvoted. If Aatrox builds tank and relies on W for damage it's extremely low damage AND hurting himself. And if he switches to the heal then it's a really slow heal due to no attack speed. Also he'll be hitting like a wet noodle.
Aatrox players make a gamble at the start of the game. Snowball and build damage and hope to continue to snowball (but one stun and you'll blow up (very easy with his slow gap closer)). Or whether hesnowballs or not, build bruiser and be a worse version of Irelia. Aatrox should really never build full damage past silver and even that's risky. He's to feast or famine and even when he's feasting he's easy to shut down if anyone lands a stub on him.
Starfish H8 votesYou just listed a bunch of champs who either require items to heal or have very situational heals except for Nasus and WW and we both know how those champs are going. A draintank is someone who inherently has a reliable source of healing while being able to only buy a few tank items and get away with it because of how their heals work. Aatrox in his prime could build almost full damage and 1 tank item and almost be able to 1v5 a team because of his constant heals. And the damage items? Either BT if you want to just duel or Hydra for AOE. And you know what? Vice versa too, full tank and 1 Bork still made him impossible to duel. Those champs have a required situation for their heals Noc's is every once a while, Vlad requires 2 Q's before hand, Xin Zhao's is only prominent when he's fed, Fiora requires her ult, Illoai requires tentacle slaps, Darius requires to hit his Q, Irelia's last for a few seconds, and WW is well WW. And while these "drain tanks" aren't considered broken at a time most of these were. That's why when you gut a champ it's considered Olaf'ed. I also don't remember the time when an ADC was able to both be tanky and able to sustain at half health because every third auto healed him like as if he was eating a bag of oranges every time.
IGotScuttleCrabs3 votes[{quoted}](name=Starfish H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0RcnyqYq,comment-id=00070003,timestamp=2016-08-12T13:54:54.812+0000)
I also don't remember the time when an ADC was able to both be tanky and able to sustain at half health because every third auto healed him like as if he was eating a bag of oranges every time.
Sorry. That's actually wrong. He didn't need 3 hits. Just 1. He was also an assassin, tanky bruiser, drain-tank, ranged adc, mobile destroyer of hopes and dreams.
DeathBurst2 votesDon't know akali, so I won't comment on her.
Darius, Fiora (without lifesteal on items), Illaoi, Irelia, Xin, Vladimir(?), it's not drain tanking. Their healing is independent of the damage they deal, which means it's possible to tune both damage and healing separately, and you don't have the core issue of drain tanking, that is if you are ahead, you build more damage, kill more people AND are unkillable because you ALSO boosted your healing by building damage.
Olaf, Nasus and Warwick are actually drain tanks, but Nasus his kept in check by his need to stack, and Warwick is currently reworked. That leaves only Olaf, which isn't so many champions that it's a convincing proof.
Riven isn't a Drain Tank, but she does have a shield scaling with AD, so it's a related issue, even if not exactly the same. But the fact it's a shield and not a heal makes it less of a problem, by far. You need to time it right, etc.
Graves and every ADC lategame, well, ADC are supposed to be the dominant class lategame, and they need to work to reach this state. Plus, they are so squishy that they can't 1v5 like Nasus or Olaf or Aatrox if he was buffed.
Kled, I don't understand what your referring to... His AD scaling shield on ult? That's kinda ridiculous, absolutely nothing to do with drain tanking...
EDIT: I checked for Vlad, most of his healing scales with AP/damage, but he was reworked recently precisely to make sure he was healthier than before. So I should have put him in the same category as Warwick, not with Darius and co., but it's still not a convincing proof.
Droogzy10 votesDarius, Illaoi, Olaf, Vladimir, Graves, Xin, Swain
Just all the top of my head, all viable drain tanks who currently function far better. You can buy executioner for these champions and hurt them, but they would all be able to somewhat function.
But for Aatrox, if you buy executioner? He's fucked. Plain and simple.
I don't understand how people say his kit is unbalanceable and toxic. Its not, people talk about how he's feast or famine as if he's the only champion who suffers from that issue, but yet other feast or famine champions regularly see attention, Christ sakes, Riven is about to get a huge buff onto her ultimate, Xin Zhao literally can 1v5 if he snowballs and got an added buff of being able to crit on his 3rd strike.
Why is it suddenly with Aatrox, who doesn't even have an alarming amount of life steal built into his kit like some of these other champions, which fun fact, by the time the double lifesteal kicks in due to low health, you usually can inflict the grevious wounds onto him by then, the reaction is OH GOD NO.
He inherently drain tanks the least amount of every drain tank there is. At the least, you could throw a bone Aatrox's way, make his knock-up radius slightly larger, make his flight uninterruptible, give his E better base damage late game.
There are many ways to buff Aatrox without breaking him that would just simply make him feel better to play as.
Fuck sakes, Graves isn't even a designated drain tank and he does the job better than Aatrox does.
Champion Skin2 votesIf they buff anything on Aatrox I think it should possibly be his W in damage form as while it deals decent damage it also hurts Aatrox a lot and he doesn't get any healing at all (All of his abilities damage himself except W so disabling the only form of healing that makes up for taking so much damage better be worth it... and I don't think it is most of the time)
Well I guess it is worth it when above 50% health mostly because the healing isn't all that good then... but it might not be great even then? Rank 1 you deal 60 + 100% bonus AD extra damage (before armor) however you lose out on 35 + 50% Bonus AD (hp cost + heal) Rank 5 you deal 200 + 100% bonus AD extra damage however lose out on 90 + 50% bonus AD
So if the enemy has around 100 armor the extra damage dealt is about the same as the healing "lost" and the health cost... at higher armor the damage will be lower compared with the loss of health
Of course you would always have the damage on if you are winning and just want to kill your opponent fast (after all then taking some damage and not getting healed doesn't really matter)
Droogzy1 votesI think the toggle is definitely the big issue here, the health he loses for the damage he deals simply isn't worth it for probably 80% of all situations that an Aatrox might be in.
However drain tank balance is difficult to do, so I'd rather stay away from touching his toggle in the meantime less it causes a big oops and focus on the short term fix. That would probably involve looking at his gap closer/knock up and his E to give him something.
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesThe problem with his toggle is it is VERY reliant on both AD and AS to do anything and BoRK and Trinity are (iirc) the only 2 items in the game that give both (and both give "meh" AD). His W healing is super mediocre and he goes even almost with Irelia W (78 VS 40 + 0.25 bonus AD every third or 120 + 0.75 below half) while being worse in almost every other conceivable way.
Aatrox simply gets outclassed by every other champion in his class. He is quite literally worse Xin Zhao. Worse gap closer (can be used more freely but screams "pls interrupt me" whereas Xin's is instant). Both have knock ups, however, Xin's is not situational neither is Xin's slow. Xin uses mana (kinda) whereas Aatrox kills himself. Xin gets both parts of Aatrox W passively. Xin shreds armor and has a defensive steroid+knock back. What does Aatrox have? Slightly longer AA range during ult, a meh revive, and his AS is tied to a full blood well and using ult whereas Xin simply hits W. Basically, Aatrox does less than Xin and has to work twice as hard since he has skill shots and a toggle to manage.
There is a reason Riot contemplated doing Divers next, because, like assassins, it is entirely based on "who does the job best?" because all their kits are too damn similar so there is very little to differentiate them besides who does more damage throughout a fight consistently (and can live the fight which are both of Aatrox's problems).
Tobias Brackner1 votesIt is unbalancable and toxic. You said it yourself
But for Aatrox, if you buy executioner? He's fucked. Plain and simple.
Aatrox is also way more useless than a behind Riven and Xin.
have an alarming amount of life steal built into his kit like some of these other champions
lol wut u for real?
MLDzXnRRR2 votes[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0RcnyqYq,comment-id=00150001,timestamp=2016-08-12T15:02:42.989+0000)
It is unbalancable and toxic. You said it yourself
Aatrox is also way more useless than a behind Riven and Xin.
lol wut u for real?
How is he more useful than Xin or Riven when he gets instantly deleted??? I can see him being semi-playable in a bruiser meta, but now he gets permakited in every elo outside of bronze...
Tobias Brackner2 votesHomie read my post again.
Espy Psyche6 votesHere's the thing -- 
exists.
Aatrox can be strong. Because it literally takes 800g 
to cut his drain tanking to near uselessness. He does no damage if he builds tanky, and if he just builds the triple lifesteal damage build 
, he'll melt the moment you put a GW effect on him.
YumaS2Astral4 votes[{quoted}](name=Espy Psyche,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0RcnyqYq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-11T23:13:33.536+0000)
Here's the thing --
Aatrox can be strong. Because it literally takes 800g
He will melt because if he goes for that buildpath he can very easily be bursted down before he has a chance to lifesteal anything, also any CC will fuck him up (if you aren't auto-attacking, you aren't healing)
LordForrest2 votesHere's the thing, people don't build it. I don't know how many times i have politely asked someone to into and they don't. Usually they ignore me or if i am really lucky, i get lambasted for being a "noob" and "shitty" player because that item is shit and i am not going to build shit items on my yolo carry hard character.
I then proceed to offer my ass to the 
(whichever marksmen they have) and ask if they want me to lube up first. Because that's usually the end result.
Sir Fuzzi1 votesI mean, nobody needs a significant other anymore.
Playing Swain while the enemy team refuses to build Grievous Wounds will provide all the warmth and comfort of a lover.
I know your struggles, though. The good news is that ExeCalling is 'on hit,' with no HP cap, so even your 
game can carry it on-side to help your team out.
Just remember: if your team lost, only YOU can be at fault.
WoonStruck2 votesIf your team lost, its not just you that can be at fault.
The mentality you're trying to convey is the "there's always something I could have done better" but it doesn't mean you would have won that game if you did.
A Leona that buys Executioner's calling will not be reapplying it consistently enough for it to be active at the point where the sustain would make a difference in the outcome of a fight. It will help, but it likely won't change the outcome dramatically if your AD lacks the foresight to invest in such an obvious answer.
Evewynn5 votesHe needs to step away from a drain tank and be shifted towards a teamfight diver. Keep his fly and give him some sort of teamwide buffing ability; definitely would fit his character.
KoKoboto3 votesYeah Aatrox sucks, honestly I think all champions in league of legends are viable in some way. Underplayed doesn't mean not viable but Aatrox is just terrible. I don't understand how he isn't the lowest winrate champion.
SpongebobIsLife4 votesbc when people see him, they are shocked to see one being played that they just give up.
Irelia Bot1 votesWell I know I need to be careful since only his hard core fan base plays him still
Reminds me of season 3 Irelia.
AcidTheWarlock2 votesWhich is why his winrate isn't absolute shit.
Cuz the hardcore mains are the only ones playing him, and they know his kit inside and out, every matchup, every situation.
Of course, a scrub or someone who just picks him up for like a month is gonna get rekt.
Abandon3 votesI thank you for your kind words, were it not for us last remaining 5 darkin players this champion and his winrate would cease to exist :)
God King Aatrox1 votesI thought i was the only aatrox main in existance. I've legit played 1100 games this season and i only saw him being picked 7 times out of those games when i dont pick him, and im pretty sure my Aatrox pick rate is hovering around the 80% area.
