Sona is a mid laner in supports clothing

RedCyclone·Mar 25, 2016·44 votes·5,357 views

And that's a problem

Her pretty much only viable build requires her to build not one, but two artificially scaling AP items and the reason for that is because her base values and her scaling values on her skills suck, she needs some change because her place in the game right now is literally the EXACT SAME as pre-rework Karma, but unlike the old Karma, she can't really survive midlane

When can we see another Sona rework? because I think we have had enough time to come to the conclusion that the rework did hardly anything to touch on her problems or even fix them at all

She's still unsatisfying She's still got a low as fuck skill cieling She's still hard countered by like half the support cast Only now she does not have a wide veriety of builds to choose from and only has the one, full AP squish or do literally nothing

121 Comments

ArlanKelsMar 25, 201623 votes

I love sona but her heal is trash. Late game support Sona's will have maybe 100 AP at most, so they're going to have like.. a heal of 150 to herself and an ally? Not counting the % HP bonus of course but even then it'll probably be 200 HP at most.

Meanwhile soraka just goes "Oh hey bro, here have ALL YOUR HP BACK". Nami heals for more AND does damage in the same move AND can even heal another(Or damage another).

DrProfVibeCheckMar 26, 20163 votes

I always play full ap Sona. I get up to 400 or 500 ap late game lol

LankPantsMar 26, 201611 votes

Which should be an option, not Sona's only viable build path.

shadowlordkiroMar 26, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I love sona but her heal is trash. Late game support Sona's will have maybe 100 AP at most, so they're going to have like.. a heal of 150 to herself and an ally? Not counting the % HP bonus of course but even then it'll probably be 200 HP at most.

Meanwhile soraka just goes "Oh hey bro, here have ALL YOUR HP BACK". Nami heals for more AND does damage in the same move AND can even heal another(Or damage another).

It's also a shield for the whole team on a shorter cooldown than karma's mantra shield

LankPantsMar 26, 201612 votes

If you attempt to use it a shield for the whole team and don't get hit by an AOE CC you probably would have won regardless of your pick, because you're playing against a cactus.

chipndip1Mar 26, 201610 votes

I was gonna make a thread on Sona's half-assed state, but I wanted to wait a good while before doing so. Still, you and me tend to be on a similar page, so I'll share my thoughts with you:

Sona's whole kit needs to be revamped big time. Her kit's literally confused. Everything of decent value in her kit requires her to get extremely close to opponents + she has no mobility, no hard cc in her basic kit, and she's incredibly squishy. One could say "So increase her values to make fighting this close to enemies worth it", but she's so mechanically simple Riot can't increase her values. On top of that her simple-yet-effective ult makes it so Riot can't really do much with her basic kit anyway since it's a relatively wide, straight, stunning line, making it an extremely valuable ult on a pretty piss-poor kit. And this means Riot can't buff Sona because she'd low-elo stomp way too hard.

Either Repetoir or Meddler are already on the record saying that Sona's rework was done on a low budget, hence why it didn't do much for the character in the long run. If they were to give a rework to her any year soon, even if they kept a move or the passive the same, her play pattern needs to be altered. Either make it so she plays more like a back-line support or give her more benefit for having to hover in everyone's faces 24/7. Regardless of which she's given, she needs better cc options (hard or soft, but for the love of goodness something), and her W needs to be looked at because it's needlessly over-complicated to the point where most people don't realize that half of it is a shield and the heal only heals like 30-40 health until I start ranking it. Sona's just lacking basic shit that you'd expect her to have as a support, and that stunts her ability to be used efficiently beyond like...Gold elo. And yes, she IS countered by almost everyone in the support cast. Any support that's actually good as a support right now has advantage against Sona so long as they know how to play the match-up. Nami can bubble Sona since she has to get in-range to AA her target, and then have her killed. Janna's shield eats Sona's Q and then her adc can trade for free. Soraka can heal her adc and fish with Q's from way out of Sona's range. Anyone with a hook sends her running. Alistar's her worst match-up in this whole game, and to boot he can freaking heal himself...like that's one of the main things mage supports are supposed to have over tank supports and Ali's like "nope!". Only supports Sona can be are like...Annie, Zyra, Lulu, Brand, Kench...people that kind of need updates/buffs of their own or don't belong in bot lane. This is all due to the fact that she's got the stats of a back-liner, but the play pattern of someone that has to be way too close for comfort...and her gains for being this close all the time isn't even worth it!

If they ever do announce a rework of Sona, the last thing I wanna hear is "We aren't gonna make too many changes/We're gonna keep her relatively close to home". No. MAKE BIG CHANGES. The problem with this champ is literally the entirety of this kit. It's heavily related to something Riot doesn't believe is healthy for the game anymore (auras), so this aura-based kit has to go. Do something else sound-related that isn't auras that you guys wouldn't mind supporting in this game. Stop with this half-assed attempt at making Sona something you don't even want in the game, Riot. I'm tired of feeling like my champ is nothing but a nuisance now that I'm not low elo.

HowPlayGAEMMar 26, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Pika310Mar 26, 20164 votes

Except Sona doesn't even use auras anymore. So this "radical rework" already occured in 4.13. Her current spells are activated effects, plain and simple. They don't even meet HALF of the criteria necessary to be considered "auras."

Sona's kit isn't aura-based(anymore), it's shit-based now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

HowPlayGAEMMar 26, 20162 votes

[deleted]

Pika310Mar 26, 20163 votes

Mayhaps people agree with the general sentiment of what you're saying, but disagree with your justifications or some manner you're trying to convey it in.

Also, there's also the obvious explanation, you know what I'm talking about.

Yes Sona probably needs a full rework from the ground up. It's clear that Rito hates the character in her entirety, maybe they could set that aside if they deleted her and replaced her with a new "Sona."

As far as viability is concerned, she doesn't need anything that severe, but many Ritoers like Meddler and Fearless will never allow her to be a playable character as she is/was.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

LankPantsMar 26, 20164 votes

Auras are literally Sona's only cohesive theme. I'd argue that removing that aspect from her would be the most radical rework in League history.

Auras were important to Sona's theme at one point, Riot already destroyed that though. What she has now is a joke, and I seriously don't think it's worth preserving.

HowPlayGAEMMar 26, 20162 votes

[deleted]

LankPantsMar 26, 20162 votes

I'd prefer Sona's identity to be moved to something else, like dedicated poke support or late game scaling support which are both kind of present in Sona's kit but currently overwhelmed by 'crap aura support'.

I'm not against removing or changing them the auras, I just want people to realize that would require a large scale rework.

At this point fixing Sona requires at bear minimum a Graves sized rework. Realistically though I'd say she needs a full scale rework, her kit's not really worked for years now.

Pika310Mar 26, 20165 votes

Roughly ~1.66 years, to be exact.

I'm saying patch 4.13 is when she stopped working, just in case that wasn't clear.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

chipndip1Mar 26, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=OMG halp meh plz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aO46K6eV,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-03-26T09:46:45.299+0000)

I don't disagree with you, but

Auras are literally Sona's only cohesive theme. I'd argue that removing that aspect from her would be the most radical rework in League history.

She needs a Sion/Poppy level rework IMO, but before that we need to have a discussion with Riot to establish what Sona is even supposed to be.

I see you got hit by a few downvotes, but you're not wrong: Riot needs to figure out what the hell they want Sona to actually do that isn't just "auras", because as long as it's that, they're never going to give her a kit worth learning and mastering like other better designed champs, even if what she has now is more like "aoe actives" rather than "auras". They could do something sound related, but I don't trust Riot has a single person in their whole company that wants to see an aura-based kit in this game, so scrap it. This half-assed attempt at retaining an identity they don't want in this game just screws her player-base over.

So yea, major overhaul please.

OverpoweredSoapMar 25, 20168 votes

The only reason Sona isn't played mid lane more often is because her waveclear is absolute shit.

Sona relies on AP items to do well and that's her problem as support.

And Yes, Sona could build support before, it was a viable option for her but now she is basically forced to build ap to do anything useful.

Her problem isn't that she's BAD, it's that she can't build like a support if she wants to be useful.

RedCycloneMar 25, 201616 votes

And for those exact reasons is why no one is going to really want Sona supporting them, or touch her in Diamond+ Way too risky, way too expensive, way too linear

XonraMar 26, 20169 votes

{quoted}

The only reason Sona isn't played mid lane more often is because her waveclear is absolute shit.

Sona relies on AP items to do well and that's her problem as support.

And Yes, Sona could build support before, it was a viable option for her but now she is basically forced to build ap to do anything useful.

Her problem isn't that she's BAD, it's that she can't build like a support if she wants to be useful.

So in other words she is bad.

She can't build straight support because she NEEDS ap.....that's a bad support because you won't have the gold for that unless you are taking farm and ks'ing ever kill (or the game is 45 minutes long or a one-sided stomp fest).

You can't take her mid to have the gold because she will be out scaled, and out classed by the same amount of ap on actual mid laners. She will also get wrecked as she has terrible movement speed, terribly scaling even for HAVING to build lots of ap (it still isn't good comparatively speaking), no waveclear, her power budget is taken up by crap melee range "support" stuff, and she has a whole 1 offensive ability.

Bad mid laner all over the place.

She has no good place in the game right now, and THAT makes her bad. The rework was bad even before all the changes around her, but Riot clearly doesn't like the champion, as they STILL want to nerf her, and said very clearly they'd nerf her before buffing her, and that was since the start of the season. They basically hate the champion but aren't willing to fix her.

NahuiMar 25, 20165 votes

Not really. She requires AP, but not too muc depending on what you're trying to do. You can go glass cannon AP and have great, powerful spells but get annihilated. You can go half AP and half utility and be tankier and still have good values. You can go just a smidge of AP and be much tankier and max some CDR.

Honestly all you need is FQC and lichbane and then straight utility. You'll still chunk squishes, have good heals and CDR, mana, and lots of utility. Sona is meant to be a personal buff to her ADC. She has great cc, slow, damage reduction, damage buffs, heals and mobility to offer her ADC. She also has the option to just straight chunk.

I mean she's no Janna or Braum or Thresh but she is incredibly versatile in what she offers to her ADC that she's definitely a good pick depending on team comp. basically, she's amazing if her ADC gets ahead as she snowballs him/her.

RedCycloneMar 25, 201610 votes

Well when you consider that she needs around 200-300 AP just for her utility to perform on the same level as most champion's do as well as other champs get on the getgo, it's a problem She needs some way of being able to integrate other builds, you simply cannot get away with building mainly utility or tanky items like she used to be

NahuiMar 25, 20163 votes

Well the thing is she is a jack of all trades. Yeah her heal isn't Nami or Soraka, and damage isn't annie, or tankiness isn't Leona but she just does everything. Slows, stuns, heals, MS, damage reduction, nukes..

I think this was intended by Riot.

OH MAN NOT GOODMar 25, 20165 votes

[deleted]

Pika310Mar 25, 20165 votes

It works for Bard and Thresh, so I'd have to affirmatively disagree. Still I kinda get where you're coming from.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%2029_zpskuqfz9gu.jpg

RedCycloneMar 25, 201611 votes

you can call a lot of supports available "jack of all trades" in the same vain as Sona Nami, Thresh, Bard, Kench

The point is, that it takes too much AP to get to a point that is comparable to other supports, much like you would think with a support who has no readily available hard CC to throw out in trades

The jack of all trades thing is just nonesense, Sona misses out on quite a few things that other supports have

LankPantsMar 26, 20166 votes

Sona misses out on quite a few things that other supports have

Just going to throw this out here, Sona cannot be a viable support with no peel. The meta just doesn't allow for a 0 peel support right now and Sona's a complete sitting duck pre 6.

ElindiirMar 27, 20161 votes

Sona has about as much peel as Soraka...

LankPantsMar 27, 20167 votes

I don't know what you're smoking, Soraka's peel is far superior. Soraka has a slow, like Sona but on top of that also has a silence zone which has the threat of becoming a snare.

ElindiirMar 28, 20161 votes

In both cases, getting engaged on by a fed burst assassin will mean you will probably die, but you have a better chance of escape against say a Shyvanna as Sona because of Sona's reliable speed buff which happens along with her slow. Also, the amount of damage prevention Sona provides has about as much value while getting ganked as Soraka's healing after the fact. Also, Soraka's healing means almost nothing if SHE gets engaged on.

LankPantsMar 28, 20166 votes

Also, Soraka's healing means almost nothing if SHE gets engaged on.

That was a typo, it was meant to say peel, my brain just got mixed up.

In both cases, getting engaged on by a fed burst assassin will mean you will probably die,

Not true, Soraka has a silence, which is very effective at shutting down burst assassins.

but you have a better chance of escape against say a Shyvanna as Sona because of Sona's reliable speed buff which happens along with her slow

Since her last rework Soraka has a fairly reliable speed buff. She just doesn't use up a whole ability slot and have a worthless E for it.

QuephaMar 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't know what you're smoking, Soraka's peel is far superior. Soraka has a slow, like Sona but on top of that also has a silence zone which has the threat of becoming a snare.

AoE, instant-cast stun > delayed snare targeted slow > delayed skillshot slow they're comparable in terms of real peel although soraka is better at protecting a kog'maw or something because of her heals while Sona has more reliable poke.

chipndip1Mar 28, 20167 votes

{quoted}

AoE, instant-cast stun > delayed snare targeted slow > delayed skillshot slow they're comparable in terms of real peel although soraka is better at protecting a kog'maw or something because of her heals while Sona has more reliable poke.

I'm gonna tell you right now that Sona's peel overall is worse than Soraka's. Sona's ult is an ULT. If you use it for the sake of peeling, there's a bunch of other shit you can't do for a long time. Soraka's circle can be made way more times than Sona's ult can be cast. As for Sona's slow, the thing's got her AA range. By that time, whoever's chasing you or your allies down is going to get that person.

As long as Soraka herself isn't being targeted, whoever Soraka's tending to has strong chances of not dying.

QuephaMar 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm gonna tell you right now that Sona's peel overall is worse than Soraka's. Sona's ult is an ULT. If you use it for the sake of peeling, there's a bunch of other shit you can't do for a long time. Soraka's circle can be made way more times than Sona's ult can be cast. As for Sona's slow, the thing's got her AA range. By that time, whoever's chasing you or your allies down is going to get that person.

As long as Soraka herself isn't being targeted, whoever Soraka's tending to has strong chances of not dying.

If you feel you don't need to save your ult for peeling that's your business, if your adc needs powerful peel more often than you have your ult up there might be something wrong.

Soraka's slow only has 250 more range than Sona's auto attack, and if she actually uses that extra range then the enemy should dodge it due to how slow it becomes.

chipndip1Mar 28, 20164 votes

{quoted}

If you feel you don't need to save your ult for peeling that's your business, if your adc needs powerful peel more often than you have your ult up there might be something wrong.

Soraka's slow only has 250 more range than Sona's auto attack, and if she actually uses that extra range then the enemy should dodge it due to how slow it becomes.

Or you can predict their optimal running path towards you and land it anyway? If you land that hit, then you're literally saved.

In Sona's case, if you stop to slow them, assuming they have a dash (which a TON of champs do), you're basically dead unless you use Summoner Spells.

And also note that even Soraka has SOME FORM of hard cc without having to wait on a long cd ult.

QuephaMar 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or you can predict their optimal running path towards you and land it anyway? If you land that hit, then you're literally saved.

In Sona's case, if you stop to slow them, assuming they have a dash (which a TON of champs do), you're basically dead unless you use Summoner Spells.

And also note that even Soraka has SOME FORM of hard cc without having to wait on a long cd ult.

Sona's targeted slow is weaker against champions with dashes than Soraka's skillshot? Are you trolling?

chipndip1Mar 28, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Sona's targeted slow is weaker against champions with dashes than Soraka's skillshot? Are you trolling?

Cause it is. Very much so. After the sheer amount of this champ I've been playing, I know for a fact that E is shit for peeling ANYONE. Soraka's skill shot can be landed with higher skill with the move. Sona's E passive won't ever miss, but it's not gonna save anyone because they'll be too close by the time it lands. It's not a hard concept.

XonraMar 26, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Well the thing is she is a jack of all trades. Yeah her heal isn't Nami or Soraka, and damage isn't annie, or tankiness isn't Leona but she just does everything. Slows, stuns, heals, MS, damage reduction, nukes..

I think this was intended by Riot.

She is a jack of ONE trade.

Her heal is terrible Her speed boost is terrible

Her poke is ridiculous however, and outside of that she is a spam ult bot.

Her heal and speed boost are "Decent" only if you build full ap (which is kind of terrible as a support), but if you do, you will damn near be out damaging mid laners, which isn't the point, and your heal becomes completely useless after laning phase.

LankPantsMar 26, 20166 votes

Her poke is ridiculous however, and outside of that she is a spam ult bot.

Sona's poke is a lot weaker than many supports, chiefly it's weaker than Bard's.

Yuzuki YukarinMar 25, 201613 votes

So much of this is just dead wrong.

Sona has amongst the least CC of the support class
She has the absolute worst pre-6 CC of all supports
She has the lowest base damages amongst supports
She has the weakest heal in the entire game
She has one of the weakest MS spells

Yet in spite of all this, she also:

Is the 2nd-squishiest support after Zyra
Has the lowest base MS
Is the only mage support with melee-range spells (which somehow are half her damned "kit"???)

I could keeping going on and on. Sona is so fucking weak right now, she's a complete embarrassment to this game and especially to Rito.

XonraMar 26, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yuzuki Yukarin,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aO46K6eV,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-03-25T21:19:19.869+0000)

So much of this is just dead wrong.

Sona has amongst the least CC of the support class

She has the absolute worst pre-6 CC of all supports

She has the lowest base damages amongst supports

She has the weakest heal in the entire game

She has one of the weakest MS spells

Yet in spite of all this, she also:

Is the 2nd-squishiest support after Zyra

Has the lowest base MS

Is the only mage support with melee-range spells (which somehow are half her damned "kit"???)

I could keeping going on and on. Sona is so fucking weak right now, she's a complete embarrassment to this game and especially to Rito.

She is essentially a one-trick pony right now (poke) with a broken leg, and there are other supports her do that far better with more utility.

Nimble MantaMar 26, 20164 votes

Is the only mage support with melee-range spells (which somehow are half her damned "kit"???)

What? Her Q is the longest range non-skill shot in the game. Her ult's range isn't half bad either.

There you go, that's all her offensive spells. Unless having a short range on her ms buff completely trashes her kit?

chipndip1Mar 26, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nimble Manta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aO46K6eV,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2016-03-26T05:41:49.445+0000)

What? Her Q is the longest range non-skill shot in the game. Her ult's range isn't half bad either.

There you go, that's all her offensive spells. Unless having a short range on her ms buff completely trashes her kit?

Problem: The bolts do barely any damage. The point of her Q (and her whole kit save E) is to use the passive tacked onto her auto, which she has to be in 550 range of. The auras attached to each spell are 350 range around her each. So to use Sona effectively, you have to be a dash away from anyone you're targeting, enemy or ally. With stats like hers, how does this even begin to make sense?

Nimble MantaMar 26, 20162 votes

The 550 range follow up is the same range as the majority of ranged auto attacks. Calling it melee range is either a disgusting exaggeration or a straight out lie when it's literally a ranged auto attack. Should ADCs be buffed because the majority of their damage requires them to be within that super horrible 550 range?

The auras do not affect enemies, so you have to be within 350 units of an ally if the situation calls for you to buff them. So let me add on to what I said previously:

Her range isn't bad, unless having short range on her haste and shield completely trash her kit.

The only time this would really matter is when the adc gets hooked, which was always a weakness for Sona. She's not a hard disengage support like lulu and Janna.

chipndip1Mar 27, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nimble Manta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aO46K6eV,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-26T23:09:13.911+0000)

The 550 range follow up is the same range as the majority of ranged auto attacks. Calling it melee range is either a disgusting exaggeration or a straight out lie when it's literally a ranged auto attack. Should ADCs be buffed because the majority of their damage requires them to be within that super horrible 550 range?

I didn't say it was melee range. I said it was in the ranges of nearly any aggressive gap closer. A mage at 550 range, especially one as squishy as Sona, is abysmal. The reason why marksmen operate around 550 range is because it's NOT safe. Because it keeps them skirting danger constantly while keeping up high single-target damage to take out things that'd normally take a bit for others to kill. It's technically safer than fighting at melee ranges, but don't play yourself and pretend that 550 is comfy for a squishy champ. It is NOT, and forcing someone that's squishier than a marksman...or mostly anyone...to play at that range to use her passive, which is extremely important to her overall efficiency, is ridiculous design if there isn't some major returns for it, but that'd just make Sona run Bronze/Silver over, so Riot can't do that.

The auras do not affect enemies, so you have to be within 350 units of an ally if the situation calls for you to buff them. So let me add on to what I said previously:

_Her range isn't bad, unless having short range on her haste and shield completely trash her kit.

It's part of the problem. It's a weak shield and a weak speed boost (and even worse for anyone that isn't her) that forces her to clump up to be one more victim to the enemy's aoe cc. The 350 ranged buff aoes combined with the 550 range passives makes Sona have to operate way too close to people throughout the entire match, but the payout for doing so is usually piss poor unless you tag like 4-5 people with her W...specifically that one...others are sort of garbage (many champs rely on skill rotations and don't care for her Q aura. E is horrible on allies)

The only time this would really matter is when the adc gets hooked, which was always a weakness for Sona. She's not a hard disengage support like lulu and Janna.

She's not much of anything at all since she's a gimped generalist, and that's why most of the support roster beats a Sona lane. Only REAL thing Sona has under her belt is lack of match-up experience. If the enemy knows how to fight Sona, she can't do much to win her lane.

QuephaMar 25, 20164 votes

When did Sona get to build support items and succeed? Do you mean before the support and vision rework when the optimal way to play her was to build nothing at all and just spam wards all game long? Because directly after that was when she wanted to start building AP to make the best use of her reliable poke and burst.

RedCycloneMar 25, 201610 votes

Before her rework there was always the good old 40% cdr tanky build, or the full on aura support build, or if it was possible back then but available now, the make my ADC super powered build would have probably worked too

QuephaMar 25, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Before her rework there was always the good old 40% cdr tanky build, or the full on aura support build, or if it was possible back then but available now, the make my ADC super powered build would have probably worked too

And those were inferior builds compared to "just buy more wards"

RedCycloneMar 25, 201611 votes

That too, but that was the entire charm of Sona for me, youd pick her and think "Hmm, what should I buy to get the best bang for my buck?" Iceborn and Iron Solari? Frozen Heart and Abbysal? DFG and Deathcap? Mikaels and Zeke?

QuephaMar 25, 20163 votes

{quoted}

That too, but that was the entire charm of Sona for me, youd pick her and think "Hmm, what should I buy to get the best bang for my buck?" Iceborn and Iron Solari? Frozen Heart and Abbysal? DFG and Deathcap? Mikaels and Zeke?

That sounds like a lot of gold that you should have been spending on wards.

RedCycloneMar 25, 201613 votes

You act like the Sona rework was before season 3

Junsui AoiMar 26, 20169 votes

Bruh. You get Sona. You feel my pain. I miss the old Sona. She was only changed because OTHER PEOPLE couldn't tell she was doing crap to help them. I miss the variety. So bad.