Crit damage runes don't work on ashe

Rozair·Sep 24, 2015·10 votes·4,527 views

I was playing ashe and I decided to use all crit damage runes. It didn't increase my damage at all. Is this a glitch or intended

22 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirSep 24, 201510 votes

They should work once you have crit chance.

Photos of GhostsSep 24, 201510 votes

But it doesn't make sense. They should increase ANY critical damage, including Anivia's E or Panth's spear or the middle of Soraka's Q. And Ashe's autoattacks after the first are ALL critical strikes.

Meep ManSep 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF3Z3g8B,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-24T20:05:59.492+0000)

But it doesn't make sense. They should increase ANY critical damage, including Anivia's E or Panth's spear or the middle of Soraka's Q. And Ashe's autoattacks after the first are ALL critical strikes.

I think its because of how Ashe's Q works. IF increases the bonus damage on her passive by 50%. So it would increase the base bonus damage from 10% to 15%. What would increase it's damage to 130% now increases it to 145%.

Basically, getting critical damage as Ashe increases damage like this: Crit Damage Bonus from Runes: 10% Ashe gets 10% critical strike chance. This increases her passive damage to 120%. The 10% bonus damage from runes increases this to 122%, increasing the 20% damage bonus to 22%.

JustMyBassCannonSep 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF3Z3g8B,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-24T20:05:59.492+0000)

They should increase ANY critical damage, including Anivia's E or Panth's spear or the middle of Soraka's Q.

Valid point; if those are counted for Randuin's, they should count for Crit Damage.

And Ashe's autoattacks after the first are ALL critical strikes.

And the damage is scaled on her Crit Chance.

There's always a 10% bonus damage that's separate from the rest of the multiplier, and it's not affected by Crit Damage (even if it was, it's a minuscule difference). The damage increases based on her Crit Chance, then multiplied by her Crit Damage. If she has 0% Crit Chance, the damage isn't increased because 0 * [anything] = 0

Krys StarSep 24, 201517 votes

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Ashe's passive guarantees her crits, so she basically has a 100% crit chance once a target is under Frost Show.

MiraweaveSep 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frozen Beauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF3Z3g8B,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2015-09-24T20:33:44.258+0000)

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Ashe's passive guarantees her crits, so she basically has a 100% crit chance once a target is under Frost Show.

But Ashe's crits also calculate their damage a different way. That's the entire point of her passive. If she just got a straight 1% increase in autoattack damage per 1% crit damage it would be incredibly broken.

The actual formula for Ashe's passive is that she crits for 110 (+ Crit Chance * Crit Damage) % AD

SouL1essSep 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frozen Beauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF3Z3g8B,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2015-09-24T20:33:44.258+0000)

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Ashe's passive guarantees her crits, so she basically has a 100% crit chance once a target is under Frost Show.

Except that her critical hit damage formula isn't the same as other champions.

Her damage contribution from Critical Hit Damage requires that you have non-zero critical chance first. Regardless if you can crit a target under the effect of frost arrow on every attack, your innate critical hit chance is still zero percent, and therefore your critical hit damage gives you a damage increase of 0%.

Krys StarSep 25, 20151 votes

Different formula or not, every auto attack after Frost Shot has been applied is a guaranteed critical strike. The runes should add to her crit damage, not after she gets starts getting crit. Players that would pick these runes would be gimped early on, until they build crit which isn't always going to be the first or second item in most cases.

SouL1essSep 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frozen Beauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF3Z3g8B,comment-id=0003000100010000,timestamp=2015-09-25T08:57:08.680+0000)

Different formula or not, every auto attack after Frost Shot has been applied is a guaranteed critical strike. The runes should add to her crit damage, not after she gets starts getting crit. Players that would pick these runes would be gimped early on, until they build crit which isn't always going to be the first or second item in most cases.

It's a drawback for Ashe being able to consistently crit. Ashe should not benefit significantly more than other ADCs from stacking critical damage. The damage formula is to make sure Ashe has similar paper DPS as other ADCs when she has the same items as them. The formula works to make sure Ashe's guarantee crits doesn't overpower the AA damage on other ADCs.

Not every rune is supposed to be good early game. If you want to be gimped early on but be powerful later, that's your choice.

Duke AnaxSep 25, 20151 votes

The runes do add to her crit damage, but since Ashe sacrifices Crit damage to reach 100% crit chance, there is not much left that could be enhanced by the runes.

Only when Ashe builds crit chance, will she get her crit damage back and then there is somethig for the runes to work with.

Duke AnaxSep 25, 20151 votes

It makes perfect sense, because Ashe's crit chance is converted to base crit damage.

While other champs have 100% base critical damage and variable crit chance. Ashe has 100% crit chance, but variable crit damage.

Crit damage runes increase crit damage, but when Ashe hasn't got crit damage to begin with, there is nothing to increase.

Or see it this way: When IE increases your crit damage by 50% that means 50% of your crit damage, not 50% of your AD. When your crit damage is low, then the effect of crit damage increase is low.

RozairOct 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They should work once you have crit chance.

She passively has crit though

RenascentSep 24, 20157 votes

The formula requires you to have more than 0% crit chance in order to interact with crit damage.

10% + (critical strike chance × (1 + bonus critical damage))%.

Sneak DogSep 24, 20152 votes

They increase the increase in damage you get from crit chance. In more sensible words: they make crit chance better just like they do on any adc.

In more technical terms, the bonus damage you get from Ashes passive is: 10% of your ad for free + Critical chance x bonus critical damage x ad

Critical damage starts at 1, or 100% depending on notation, meaning a critical strike would for any other adc deal 200% damage. Your critical damage runes will add approximately 33.45% or even up to 45.41% critical damage. This would make the multiplier for bonus critical damage 1.3345 or 1.4541. Infinity edge will add 50% critical damage, making the non-runes multiplier 1.5. It becomes 1.8345 or 1.9541 with your runes.

Let's say we take quints and marks of critical damage for 33.45% critical damage and an infinity edge for another 50% critical damage but only a measly 20% critical chance. Ashe's passive will deal:

With critical damage marks and quints 10% ad + 20% crit chance x 183.45% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.2 x 1.8345 x ad = 0.4669 ad extra damage, or 46.69% ad

Compared without critical damage runes 10% ad + 20% crit chance x 150% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.2 x 1.5 x ad = 0.57 ad extra damage, or 57% ad

So if you rush an infinity edge, the additive stacking of your runes with infinity edge makes the runes not very impressive. Lets try rushing a phantom dancer instead:

With critical damage marks and quints 10% ad + 35% crit chance x 133.45% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.35 x 1.3345 x ad = 0.4669 ad extra damage, or 46.69% ad

Compared without critical damage runes 10% ad + 35% crit chance x 100% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.35 x 1 x ad = 0.35 ad extra damage, or 35% ad

Now the difference is more pronounced.

I don't think critical damage runes are very impressive right now as they do nothing until you have critical chance. Even when you have items infinity edge gives a big chunk of critical damage, making the added critical damage from your runes less significant. Getting the extra early attack damage from runes helps you snowball into these big synergising items an helps you last-hit. Personally I also like flat armor penetration for more ability-based ad carries, because it helps assassinate squishy champions once you get a pickaxe or BF sword.

RozairSep 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aF3Z3g8B,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-09-24T20:52:23.931+0000)

They increase the increase in damage you get from crit chance. In more sensible words: they make crit chance better just like they do on any adc.

In more technical terms, the bonus damage you get from Ashes passive is: 10% of your ad for free + Critical chance x bonus critical damage x ad

Critical damage starts at 1, or 100% depending on notation, meaning a critical strike would for any other adc deal 200% damage. Your critical damage runes will add approximately 33.45% or even up to 45.41% critical damage. This would make the multiplier for bonus critical damage 1.3345 or 1.4541. Infinity edge will add 50% critical damage, making the non-runes multiplier 1.5. It becomes 1.8345 or 1.9541 with your runes.

Let's say we take quints and marks of critical damage for 33.45% critical damage and an infinity edge for another 50% critical damage but only a measly 20% critical chance. Ashe's passive will deal:

With critical damage marks and quints 10% ad + 20% crit chance x 183.45% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.2 x 1.8345 x ad = 0.4669 ad extra damage, or 46.69% ad

Compared without critical damage runes 10% ad + 20% crit chance x 150% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.2 x 1.5 x ad = 0.57 ad extra damage, or 57% ad

So if you rush an infinity edge, the additive stacking of your runes with infinity edge makes the runes not very impressive. Lets try rushing a phantom dancer instead:

With critical damage marks and quints 10% ad + 35% crit chance x 133.45% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.35 x 1.3345 x ad = 0.4669 ad extra damage, or 46.69% ad

Compared without critical damage runes 10% ad + 35% crit chance x 100% critical damage x ad = 0.1 ad + 0.35 x 1 x ad = 0.35 ad extra damage, or 35% ad

Now the difference is more pronounced.

I don't think critical damage runes are very impressive right now as they do nothing until you have critical chance. Even when you have items infinity edge gives a big chunk of critical damage, making the added critical damage from your runes less significant. Getting the extra early attack damage from runes helps you snowball into these big synergising items an helps you last-hit. Personally I also like flat armor penetration for more ability-based ad carries, because it helps assassinate squishy champions once you get a pickaxe or BF sword.

Thank you this helps alot

AkesgerothSep 24, 20151 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report

MiraweaveSep 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report

Not a bug, OP just doesn't understand how Ashe's passive works.

KingopantsSep 24, 20151 votes

Pretty sure its intended, I think all crit damage runes gives you like 50%+ crit damage or something and Since every shot on Ashe is a crit like +50% damage level one would be insane.

Stiv1234Sep 24, 20155 votes

Youre misunderstanding it a bit. It doesnt add 50% AD to Crits, but multiplies the damage by the factor of 1.5. So Ashe at Level 1 with 20% Critchance and 50% increased Critdamage would result in 140% AD per crit.

MiraweaveSep 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Youre misunderstanding it a bit. It doesnt add 50% AD to Crits, but multiplies the damage by the factor of 1.5. So Ashe at Level 1 with 20% Critchance and 50% increased Critdamage would result in 140% AD per crit.

That's exactly how it works now. But since she starts the game without crit chance built, it doesn't have an effect until you buy crit items.

Stiv1234Sep 25, 20151 votes

Thats perfectly true.

MathbalnaseSep 25, 20151 votes

What negative consequences would follow from changing her crit formula from: 110 + (crit chance x crit damage) to: 100 + ([10 + crit chance] x crit damage) ?