The Actual Reason Why Both Kog'Maw and Corki Are So Bad Right Now - And Why Crit Is Dying

ArnoldSchwarzens··20 votes·2,445 views

Their itemization is really fucking terrible.

When you are a Marksman there are two options for what kind of build you are able to go ( unless you are Ezreal ).

One focuses on crit and the other focuses on armor penetration.

If you are a champion that goes for a crit build, you need attack speed, AD and maybe even lifesteal steroids or abilities that can critically strike or have another special interaction with critical strike.

If you are going for an armor penetration build you instead have high base damage and ability damage, high AD ratios and probably bad synergy with attack speed or crit.

Kog'Maw and Corki have neither of both.

Kog'Maws only AD ratio is on his ult and 50% of all damage he deals as a marksman is magical so a penetration build is out of the question. The only interaction he has with crit is his Q attack speed bonus.

Compare that with Lucian who has 3 AD scaling abilities with high base damage, which also are dealing physical damage so that he can go for a penetration build. Or Vayne, which has an enhanced autohit reset on her Q every few seconds, that can not only critically strike but also has a really high AD ratio and procs lifesteal.

So instead Kog'Maw has to go for an on-hit build. The problem is that on-hit currently is only really good on bruisers who only buy a few offensive items - on-hit carry builds are dead ever since old Guinsoo's, Feral Flare, Sated Devourer and the now old Kog'Maw are gone. After Trinity Force and BotRK, the latter being a pretty mediocre item, he actually HAS to go for crit since that is his best option. And as I just said, even so, his interaction with crit is really shitty so it just shows you how bad his itemization is.

Next up it's Corki. He would be an amazing AD caster penetration carry, about 2/3 of his damage comes from his abilities and not his auto attacks, yet because all of his abilities deal magic damage this won't work. Also, the only interaction that he even has with critical strike are his auto attacks, all his abilities don't matter. And 2/3 of his damage comes from his abilities. Just think about it, his synergy with crit is about as good as Zed's or Kha'Zix's synergy with crit.

And with the pre-season, armor penetration builds for marksmen get nerfed even more - they don't get the early flat pen anymore, they can't make much use of the out of combat movement speed the new lethality items give and the worst part is that Youmuu's loses its attack speed for good. Duskblade won't be an option either anymore, none of the AD caster carries have good stealth interactions or need a raptor buff since they won't facechek bushes alone anyway.

So if you are a Marksman in the pre-season, you can't choose between armor penetration or crit builds anymore, the only build you can go is crit ( unless you're Ezreal ). Lucian will soon join the ranks of Kog'Maws and Corki's trash tier level.

And I'm absolutely okay with crit being the only option. For the longest time now, there have been unbalanced marksmen who have too much power in the early game because of alternative builds and that is something that marksmen just should not do. The idea that every marksman should go for a crit build that ramps up in the lategame is one that I personaly really like.

But for that to work, every marksman and AD Carry also has to actually synergize with crit to not be forced into mediocrity.

It has gotten to the point where Master Yi, Gangplank and even Yasuo who gets double critical strike chance have been seen not building crit anymore, aswell as marksmen like Corki, Lucian and Kog'Maw because their interaction with crit is not good enough.

I mean just look at Vayne with her new critically striking Q or AOE critting Jinx with steroids. Or Jhin with his extra movement speed when critting or the mini-crits on Miss Fortunes ultimate.

We need more of this stuff for critical strike to work and if it somehow is so weak that the champions end up building something that is not crit anyway, these numbers have to be buffed.

What if we make Kog'Maws W mini-crit or even crit for full damage, what if Corki's abilities are able to mini-crit aswell, or maybe only some of them? What if we let the bonus damage of Ganplank's barrels crit aswell as the basic attack part of it so that he's not forced to build armor pen anymore? What if Yi's E can mini-crit so that he isn't forced into a mediocre 48% winrate on-hit build?

These might seem a bit weird at first glance but for crit to be the basic trademark stat of AD Carries again, especially now that armor penetration builds are weaker for them, something like the changes of above have to be implemented.

25 Comments

Rebonack16 votes

Giving Kog the following Innate

Kog'Maw's OnHit effects double-proc OnCrit was one of the concepts I've been pitching for a while now if Riot ever felt inclined to make Kog a bit more hyper-carry-y. Not sure if that's the best route, however. I'm of the opinion that Kog needs predominantly more mid-game power rather than more late game power. There are plenty of ways to pull that off, but back to the topic at hand.

We need (desperately) a crit spellblade option again. I would personally be partial to Sheen+Zeal+Wicked Hatchet for a nice helping of AD, Crit chance, and attack speed. And of course Hatchet's sexy OnCrit bleed/vision effect.

As for Corki, it would be neat if Riot stuck to the whole bursty spellweaver marksmen deal and added a new component to Corki's passive to support this. Maybe when Corki scores a Crit his next spell is enhanced somehow?

kile1472 votes

Or give the crit sheen item a passive that makes it so that the next ability after a crit causes the bleed effect, which deals damage proportional to an AD ratio. This would encourage actual spellweaving.

What would the unique spellblade effect be though? I think something like just increasing your crit chance by 25% on your next auto could synergize well and would be pretty comparable in power to the other spellblades.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Or give the crit sheen item a passive that makes it so that the next ability after a crit causes the bleed effect, which deals damage proportional to an AD ratio. This would encourage actual spellweaving.

What would the unique spellblade effect be though? I think something like just increasing your crit chance by 25% on your next auto could synergize well and would be pretty comparable in power to the other spellblades.

That could be pretty neat, I think. Regardless, though, it's pretty clear that a spellblade/crit item is needed to fill the gap.

AirKingNeo1 votes

OnHit effects double-proc OnCrit

I'd kill for that on Kayle.

Dealth1 votes

There are no crit-onhit items so it would be awkward building half crit and half onhit. Either go full crit or full onhit, it feels much better that way. (yes I understand what you are saying)

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

There are no crit-onhit items so it would be awkward building half crit and half onhit. Either go full crit or full onhit, it feels much better that way. (yes I understand what you are saying)

item 3085 provides crit and OnHit damage. And Kog's W provides plenty of OnHit damage as well.

Sahn Uzal6 votes

Alright, first off, as a Gangplank main, letting the bonus damage on Powder Keg crit does not seem like a good idea to me.

Now Lucian, just to get him out of the way, he would be fine with just a little love tap to compensate for the nerfs he's gotten. He has good other Itemisation options with Essence Reaver.

Now Kog'Maw, Gangplank and Corki. I personally think Gangplank started building Armor pen because Gangplank's power spike is at level 13. He wants to be strong there, but IE second is simply garbage right now for Gangplank, because he can not go BF sword > Zeal item > IE. He'd spend 3600 gold for 70 AD, because he most likely won't crit with 20% crit chance. Back when Trinity Force gave crit, he would be strong when he needed to be with that IE second, because TF + IE = 40% Crit Chance, which is enough to function.

Corki and Kog'Maw could probably function still if Trinity Force were to synergise with Crit itemisation still. I think Riot should add ''a second Trinity Force'' (Think Titanic Hydra and Ravenous Hydra) for champions who want to itemise crit chance.

In a perfect world, these champions (ESPECIALLY Gangplank because he doesn't try to crit often like ADC's do) would not be RNG reliant, but that's not the case right now. (That's the downside of the 3 barrel nerf :l)

kile1471 votes

Another comment (By Rebonack) suggested adding a Sheen+Zeal+Wicked Hachet (or cloak of agility i suppose) item to fill that void.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Aye, I read and upvoted that comment :P

deadlychuck4 votes

If crit dies, good. Marksmen total DPS, assassin and mage burst, and fighter damage needs to be reduced across the board. Though, i doubt that riot would ever let their fights last longer. So if it does die, they'll probably just replace it with equally high dps, or higher, just consistent.

Spoofghoul4 votes

Crit is still absurdly strong on any basic attack focused champion, it is actually stronger then previous seasons due to more crit being available and all the boosts to damage from masteries and these will be even stronger next season, meanwhile tank itemization and masteries

The main issue with crit this season is that it still needs time to scale up. And snowballing has gotten so out of control that whoever wins the first 10 minutes wins the game, that has literally been the only viable option the entire season. Crit doesn't win you early, pen did As for corki/kog they can still build magic pen if they wanted like sorc boots & wits end for example they have access to pen too if needed. Corki's main thing would have been magic damage criticals, and since magic resist doesn't scale much or at all on most champions this would have been powerful if it wasn't for multiple ad + mr items and everyone and their mothers building abyssal on ap's Not to mention armorpen in general being so strong that ti would be just as potent as the ap crits anyway so his entire niche as far as basic attacks goes is irrelevant

Honestly we do not need more crit bullshit

let's do some quick math to compare to season 5

You can get upwards of 20% extra damage next season from masteries, then the added keystones for more ad, more ad on the champions themselves altogether 20% more ad 15% physical damage from LDR 24% AD from drakes

double the amount of crit available

this means in the worst case scenario you still crit like 35% to 40% harder And in the best case up to 400% harder

compared to season 5

meanwhile tanks got 25% less tanky since then

So please never again say crit is weak, it was just out of meta for a bit because earlygame snowballing has been retarded as fuck the entire season

ForgiveColour2 votes

LUL you know nothing about adc. Crit is troll build on any adc that can go arm pen.

Also im not sure if its actually crit adc thats making you have a terrible winrate on your main champions

Spoofghoul1 votes

read first maybe . . .

9kPluzZ2 votes

The thing is crit was never bad... Remember essence reaver? People just realized how broken arm pen stacking was. When it's nerfed Lucian, mf , and graves will go back to ER and still be just as broken. 6 months back peeps were bitchin about ER and it literally got 0 nerfs.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

I stand behind all this 100%. I've been trying to tell people this for about a month now.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Yeah, Spoofghoul is right. There's nothing weak about crit. Corki can't really use it because he doesn't auto much, but Kog can still build full crit and get the benefit of just attacking people with his W active.

Also, because we are entering an assassin meta Kog'maw will be trash no matter how powerful he is. He will get dived and he will die, simple as that. You need self-peeling or mobile carries in this season.

As for Corki, I honestly don't know what Riot is going to do with him. Trinity Force is still good on him, but it's only one item, he has no other synergies. And Corki has to build some kind of weird hybrid stuff like Void Staff or Sorc Shoes to get the most out of his hybrid damage. I don't think the itemization supports a Corki bot build right now but he's a fine mid laner.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Well corki DID have triforce+Duskblade+gunblade, but after the changes he's gonna lose duskblade too and even THAT build didn't offer any good items for the last 2 slots.

At this point it would be better to just change corki's entire AA to magic damage and ad built on him is converted to AP and E converted to MR shred only. At least that way corki will actually have good builds and more fun character.

Leon Etoile1 votes

They both have top 5 win rates in mid lane..

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leon Etoile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aB6JnaJN,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-10-27T16:46:32.882+0000)

They both have top 5 win rates in mid lane..

AP Kog does, anyway.

And Riot has promised swift nerfs to AP Kog if he ever gets good since they consider that an off build that's unhealthy.

Conalll1 votes

"After Trinity Force and BotRK, the latter being a pretty mediocre item..."

Forgive me, but this right here suggests to me that you don't fully understand the power of items. BotRK is quite effective against tanks and/or high HP champs. You just have to know when to use it, and how.

The thing is, I've never been a fan of pure attack speed Kog'ma builds, even after his re-work. In my experience, his power comes from his abilities, not his auto attacks. You use his Q and E to poke and/or wave-clear, then when the fighting starts, that's when you trigger his W, and then the ult to finish. The auto-attacking is set up by the abilities. And let's not forget, his Q reduces armor and magic resist. Something I think too many overlook. You Q a tank, the team suddenly has a much easier time taking him down, including you, with the BotRK passive and W doing even more work on top of it. Add in the E slowing everyone down, and so long as the battle lines are there, it's easy pickings.

Now this does mean he needs mana, personally I'm a fan of the Manamune, but will with patience and aim, you can win with him. Plus AP Kog-ma is back, so that helps. Something I've yet to try is what most Corki's do, get a Void Staff. I think it may help him even further, though that's a tough one. In addition, people continue to ignore the Gunblade, even though it heals for 15% of damage done, which includes abilities. You get AP and AD, a useful active, and some pretty sick healing.

All that said, an on-hit build can still work just fine too. Trisana for years had all AP scaling (why I will never understand). Still other ADC's to this day have poor AD scaling. Jynx for example relies on auto attacks. I know, she has an attack speed passive, but so does Kog'ma. The thing about Kog'ma is he's immobile, and that's the real problem. He needs cover during fights so he can throw out those abilities and attacks from distance. His E is his only defense. Jynx at least has a slow AND her chompers. That and one kill, and she's off to the races. The key with Kog'ma is proper placement during fights. You MUST stay back. You can't go in like other ADC's allow you to do. It's why all his abilities are so long range. His team has to peel for him so he can do his job.

Kog'ma can still succeed with the right game-plan, and the right play. You just have to fully understand where his power lies. Like any champ, the more you understand his kit, the more you can do with him.

P.S. case and point, I feel like even the pros don't fully understand the power of Jhin's traps. Toss one of those things into the middle of a team fight, and it instantly disrupts the enemy team. And that's just the beginning of it's uses.

EpikFeeder1 votes

No ADC should be strong early game. they have a babysitter so they should all be forced into lategame scaling builds. Meta too OP.

Toastersaot1 votes

I frankly think Crit should die. RNG isn't healthy. I hope that Riot can rework it sometime. They said that they are removing 1% Crit runes next year, and hopefully they will be able to balance the game without it someday.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Removing crit isn't that easy since there are a lot of champions designed to synergise with it. Yasuo Passive Jhin Passive Tryndamere Passive Quinn Passive Ashe Passive

These are just some examples. If you want to remove crits, you have to rework ALL of these champions at the same time. This is huge effort, especially since some of them just got reworked introducing this synergy to them or they are new (Jhin). Not to mention the effort to change every item in the game interacting with crits.

And in my opinion, critical strike in general isn't unhealthy for the game. Removing crit runes is fine, but I would hate if they remove critical strikes completely from the game...

Kotex1 votes

Real talk i sometimes use the Blue Build on Lucian, MF, and Sivir. <.<

6Sfool1 votes

If I didn't hate crit so much, I'd agree with you. Marksmen (actually every ad champ) need to synergize better with their optimal item builds, but I would prefer flexibility. I have 3 entirely different builds for Varus, and all work in their own way. I have a hybrid ap/ad build with absurd single target dps and burst, a high ad pen build that makes q do almost 900 damage late game, and I have a crit build that I personally don't like all that much but is meta. And I don't even use the 4th all ap build. I appreciate that there is so much flexibility in Varus's buildpath, but I know most champs don't have this luxury.

Two champs I play that come to mind are Gnar and Nocturne. Gnar basically has one item for each purpose. Damage/health? Cleaver. Armor? Randuin's. I always want to build mortal reminder on him to counter the drain tanks I always face but that has diminishing returns with the armor shred. Nocturne is just a pain in the ass to build. You want to build attack speed on him to complement his ad steroids, but he has so many bonus ad scalings that you want to just build straight ad. It would be really nice if Steraks worked well with his kit since he gets bursted a lot. There are no items that are actually satisfying to build on him.

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