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Summoner's Rift needs better balancing

Jefftiffy··2 votes·885 views

Summoner's Rift has been around for a long time and is going to be getting its VU soon, and the VU will solve a lot of problems with pathing and map readability.

The problem it doesn't fix though is that Summoner's Rift innately favors the Purple team. You probably wonder why I say this when the map is a mirror.

  • Purple team has a much easier snowball potential than burple team due to their access to the epic monsters as well as a better ability to come back with an easier way to steal baron buff from the enemy team (will be explained later).
  • Dragon pit is better wardable by blue team for early game use and most steals require spells that are on a decent to long cd or require wards which the other team may not be able to contribute as easily. This is caused by the wall between blue team and dragon. It means that purple team has a better hold on dragon early game when it matters most.
  • Baron pit has a similar relation except reversed. Purple team has the advantage late game due to the pit having a wall between them meaning it is easier to steal Baron rather than force a contest over it. And at this point in the game spells are all lower cds or less useful meaning that stealing the buff didn't have a real downside.
  • The majority of junglers need blue buff and they receive a harder leash at blue than red meaning that even junglers that don't really need either buff will start blue to get ahead of the enemy jungler by opening up longer farming periods or better counter jungling and defense against it through more health. Blue buff is also very good for setting up the purple team mid laner for a bot lane gank as well. While blue team gets a set up for top lane gank (2 kills > 1 kill)

Now the solution: *Make buffs have random spawns at the start of the game but notify the team with jungle control of the spawns so they can leash for the jungler. Do the same with dragon and baron. Make the buffs spawn randomly if both buffs are down same goes for Baron and dragon. This means that later in the game that taking an objective will not always give you as much control over it the next time and could lead to some interesting spawns due to dragon and baron having different respawn times. What this does:

  • Invading isn't nearly as set meaning that it requires a little more skill to invade rather than blindly running in and stealing the enemy teams buffs or going for kills. *The meta will remain the same but the duo lane will be dependant on the dragon spawn meaning we could potentially see duo tops and solo bots (aka variety). *Counter jungling strategies change a lot just like invading

Now this is solely my opinion on the game right now. I may not be really high ranked, but I believe I have enough knowledge of the game by now to realize these flaws. This is completely theoretical because unfortunately Riot doesn't track win % based on side. I am basing this off of the games current use of snowballing in most matches that Riot seems to have forgotten about their goal to stop it (glares at the Sword of Occult which should of just meant the removal of Mejai's).

Edit: just realized i flipped everything and have fixed it to the intended orientation. I meant it the other way around. Blue team I thought was the top team (derped out when I first wrote this), but it was actually other way around.

9 Comments

DrCyanide2 votes

I'm having a hard time understanding some of your points...

  • Dragon pit is better wardable by blue team for early game use and most steals require spells that are on a decent to long cd or require wards which the other team may not be able to contribute as easily. This is caused by the wall between purple team and dragon. It means that blue team has a better hold on dragon early game when it matters most.
  • Baron pit has a similar relation except reversed. Blue team has the advantage late game due to the pit having a wall between them meaning it is easier to steal Baron rather than force a contest over it. And at this point in the game spells are all lower cds or less useful meaning that stealing the buff didn't have a real downside.

These two statements completely contradict one another:

  • Wards - I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. I tried several times and this idea just isn't well formed.

  • Stealing - The same spells used to steal Dragon will be used to steal Baron. It's not like I'm stealing Dragon with Ashe's ult, then stealing Baron with her volley. Both Dragon and Baron have a longer respawn timer than any champion's ability cooldown, so it's not like that's an issue either.

  • The majority of junglers need blue buff and they receive a harder leash at blue than red meaning that even junglers that don't really need either buff will start blue to get ahead of the enemy jungler by opening up longer farming periods or better counter jungling and defense against it through more health. Blue buff is also very good for setting up the blue team mid laner for a bot lane gank as well. While purple team gets a set up for top lane gank (2 kills > 1 kill)

  • Blue side gets a weaker leash on Blue buff than Purple side. Purple side has the Mid, Jungle, Sup, and ADC all available to leash, while Blue side only has Top, Jungle, and Mid.

  • Blue and Red will no longer spawn at the start of the game if things stay as they are on the PBE right now. Ultimately, that most likely means either no leash for either jungler.

  • Bot lane has twice the amount of people with wards as any other lane, making them twice as hard to gank. 1 successful gank > 1 failed gank.

Now the solution:

  • Make buffs have random spawns at the start of the game but notify the team with jungle control of the spawns so they can leash for the jungler. Do the same with dragon and baron. Make the buffs spawn randomly if both buffs are down same goes for Baron and dragon. This means that later in the game that taking an objective will not always give you as much control over it the next time and could lead to some interesting spawns due to dragon and baron having different respawn times.

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Believe it or not, some teams actually meet around the Baron or Dragon pit a few seconds before it spawns so they can take it quickly. Your solution would reward their preparation with an empty pit.

Besides, how random is it when Baron is still up? 0% random, unless you want to put both monsters in the same pit and force one side to take both at the same time. Either way, horrible notion.

What this does:

  • Invading isn't nearly as set meaning that it requires a little more skill to invade rather than blindly running in and stealing the enemy teams buffs or going for kills.
  • The meta will remain the same but the duo lane will be dependant on the dragon spawn meaning we could potentially see duo tops and solo bots (aka variety).
  • Counter jungling strategies change a lot just like invading

Lane swaps already happen in the pros. Half the time the invader only cares about taking a buff, not necessarily which buff. Riot's changing the jungle items to promote counter jungling

I am basing this off of the games current use of snowballing in most matches that Riot seems to have forgotten about their goal to stop it (glares at the Sword of Occult which should of just meant the removal of Mejai's).

Riot is buffing Mejai's and Sword of Occult because they want more snowball

Jefftiffy1 votes

4.1 patch notes indicating Riot's dislike of snowballing. (yes lane swaps are meant to snowball) "With these changes, we want to tackle the 2v1 lane swaps that many competitive teams have adopted in order to shut down enemy laners while also taking quick objectives. Initiating a 2v1 lane swap to shut down an opponent should have inherent risks, like leaving your bottom tower vulnerable to early pushes."

Quick objectives = start of the snowball. If all you have to do to snowball is build a cheap item and get assists/kills then get a huge buff for being way ahead already there is a problem with the item especially when killing them isn't that bad of a penalty if they were that far ahead.

And the randomization changes wouldn't really change much other than which lane the duo lane goes to early game, but this would give both sides an equal chance to have a better hold on each epic. Doing it to buffs would mean that the jungler wouldn't know which buff he is trying to steal. I mean really what team invades trying to get red for a jungler that needs blue in order to jungle when the other jungler doesn't need red at all? Sure you get the xp but if they are smart they will just take yours.

As to vision I was referring to purple has an easier and safer way to ward dragon early. Blue may have the ability to steal without contesting, but that doesn't mean much if your jungler used smite already or the abilities capable of stealing it are on CD due to some of the really long CDs early game.

And Riot is already making the jungler harder and making items that are relatively trash for jungling. They are basically forcing 2 duo lanes unless you want their to be 3 wards out for each jungler at a time so they don't have to worry about being murdered while trying to just live through farming. Plus no leash means many junglers will do terribly as they need level 2 and a buff to even jungle at all.

DrCyanide1 votes

4.1 patch notes indicating Riot's dislike of snowballing. (yes lane swaps are meant to snowball) "With these changes, we want to tackle the 2v1 lane swaps that many competitive teams have adopted in order to shut down enemy laners while also taking quick objectives. Initiating a 2v1 lane swap to shut down an opponent should have inherent risks, like leaving your bottom tower vulnerable to early pushes."

Wait... you're basing what changes need to happen for Season 5 based on what Season 4 wanted to change?

If I remember the surrender@20 post correctly, Riot basically said they went too far trying to minimize snowballing. It created this rubberbanding effect, where the two teams keep pushing back and forth and the game wasn't ending definatively enough.

The solution is to add some minor snowball mechanics back into the late game. This currently involves longer respawn timers on the inhibitors and starting the stacking items with 5 stacks. These things might change, but the concept (wanting a little more snowball) is not likely to.

Quick objectives = start of the snowball. If all you have to do to snowball is build a cheap item and get assists/kills then get a huge buff for being way ahead already there is a problem with the item especially when killing them isn't that bad of a penalty if they were that far ahead.

There have been several changes to tower defensive stats to combat the reason you're talking about. There are a few more planned.

And the randomization changes wouldn't really change much other than which lane the duo lane goes to early game, but this would give both sides an equal chance to have a better hold on each epic. [...]

What does changing the Dragon and Baron positions accomplish? Starting on Red or Blue side is already randomized when you start the game.

If there is an imballance with starting on one side or the other as far as Dragon and Baron go, then your changes would interfere with tournaments that intentionally swap the sides that the teams start on to ballance out things like that. It provides no tangable benifits for every day players and a downside for tournaments... not a good choice.

As for randomizing the Red Buff/Blue Buff, it seems like the only purpose it serves is to nerf invade/counter jungle based champions. Which begs the question of do they even need to be nerfed. Riot seems to be one step ahead of you here too, with the changes to jungle items. The entire point of the new jungle items is that they can nerf/buff the item to nerf/buff a type of jungler without having to change every champion.

Randomizing the buffs has other issues. How random is the Blue buff spawn if you never take the Red buff? Who should see what buff will spawn in a location if it was taken by the other team? If both buffs were taken, who should see it? Some junglers base their jungling path off of the buff location, wouldn't your solution force every jungler to learn 4 paths for each champion?

It just feels like it will be problematic.

As to vision I was referring to purple has an easier and safer way to ward dragon early. Blue may have the ability to steal without contesting, but that doesn't mean much if your jungler used smite already or the abilities capable of stealing it are on CD due to some of the really long CDs early game.

There is no way to steal uncontested unless your team screws up. It's like killing the nexus uncontested.

And Riot is already making the jungler harder and making items that are relatively trash for jungling. They are basically forcing 2 duo lanes unless you want their to be 3 wards out for each jungler at a time so they don't have to worry about being murdered while trying to just live through farming. Plus no leash means many junglers will do terribly as they need level 2 and a buff to even jungle at all.

Harder, yes. Trash items, no. 2 duo lanes? 2 junglers per team is more likely than abandoning the role. Junglers will get level 2 or 3 before the buff spawns. If you run out of mana, change your runes.

Wehrmacht Bunny2 votes

My only issue with SR is that Blue has a better View then Purple. IE it's easier to look at the center to top of your screen, rather then it is to look most of the time bottom.

SR should be tilted. I always hate being on purple side because of this view. So you're always looking at the center of the map rather then either bottom or top.

WorsePlayerUSA1 votes

Wanna balance Summoner's Rift? Have inverted cameras for purple side so there isn't this monstrous difference in what you can actually see on your screen.

Raptamei1 votes

Your solutions suck, but the asymmetry of the map is a real problem.

Salidfingers1 votes

I know exactly why blue has a better win rate, Its not what people think and I learned it as a support main

Wehrmacht Bunny1 votes

I know exactly why blue has a better win rate, Its not what people think and I learned it as a support main

please share it

Salidfingers1 votes

Vision....

Easier and Safer to deep ward pink side dragon to Golems then it is to deep ward blue side Lizard to tri bush. Meaning i can track junglers on pink golem side more often then they can track our jungler's red side making it vary hard for our blue side to be ganked when you have such an early detection.

I used to think pink side was a safer bot lane, but i was wrong until i learned just 1 ward around golems gave me a HUGE!!!!!!! advantage from the enemy jungler.

Even stops Rengar and Eve ganks if you see them farming white camp before they gank and around this time i place a pink ward in lane against eves'

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