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It's time to add a fifth champion attribute... Mobility.

Yimmortal··208 votes·8,185 views

Champion attributes are there to help new players understand the strengths and weaknesses of champions and I think another trait that new players should recognize and learn to play around is mobility. Some champions are inheritable more mobile than others, and this in turn allows give them an additional option to approach kills/objectives while less mobile champions would face disadvantages in the said situation. Therefore, I think its time to add a fifth bar to a champion's attributes in addition to attack power, defense power, ability power, and difficulty.

For instance, Kalista, Leblanc, Kassadin and Udyr would be 10, Yi would be 8, Sion 5, Ashe and Lux 2, Malzahar 1.

Thoughts?

edit: okay maybe I was biased about Udyr.. is 7 better?

and this: One way we can measure it is through a point system.

For instance, gap closers get 2 points movespeed boots get 1 point x duration teleport/ abilities that lets you get past walls get 3 points global abilities get 4 points

Master yi would get 2 points for his gapcloser, 3 points becuase his q can be used to get past walls but its not reliable so -1 points and he also gets a rather long lasting ult so 4 points for that for a grand total of 8 points.

This is just one hypothetical way of measuring it.

135 Comments

Laraso48 votes

While we're at it, add a "Disruption" or "Crowd Control" attribute.

Mordekaiser : 0 Lissandra : 7 Nautilus : 11

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

[deleted]

iamthegoatofwar17 votes

no naut has one of the longest CC chains in the game (longer than leonas?)

Wolfeur7 votes

Naut has more CC but not an epic CC chain like Leona's. Leona is more a flashy CC-locking engager that prevents the ADC to exist where Naut is more like a disruptive CC compilation that prevents the fight to go as planned.

Leona: anti-carry type of CC. Naut: anti-fighter/anti-tank type of CC.

junglerboy164 votes

Leona's total CC duration is at best 2.75 seconds (maybe 3 seconds if you count the micro root that gets applied while she is dashing to them) of one target being stunned if she chains it perfectly.

Nautilus has more single target lockdown than that in just his ultimate (which is guaranteed to hit unless they have banshee's) and if he actually pulls a full combo, he pulls them for a micro stun, roots them with his passive for up to 1.5 seconds, slows them for 1.5 seconds before ulting and locking them down for up to 3 seconds at max rank between a knock up and then hefty stun.

The difference is Leona's combo comes out faster and is (literally) flashier, even though Nautilus' combo has roughly twice the CC and half of his effects CC the whole enemy team at once.

The Red Warden6 votes

The big difference is that most of her combo are stuns, that stop a character from casting or using their auto-attacks. Naut has more cc, but most of it still allows the enemy to continue to attack and cast abilities.

junglerboy161 votes

You didn't read very clearly, because naut has more lockdown in just his ult alone than Leona's whole combo. He knocks them up for 1 second and it then stuns them for 2 seconds. That is 3 seconds of no casting or attacking at all, just as long as a perfect combo from Leona.

Shrek Luigi6 votes

In fairness to Leona, her crowd-control skills are a lot more responsive than Naut's. Her ult can be popped off quite quickly whereas Naut's takes around 2 seconds to connect. The precast delay on her gap-closer is also noticeably shorter than Nauts as well.

I love both Nautilus Leona Nautilus Leona Nautilus Leona

Taryn5 votes

In contrast, I despise them both due to everything you guys have discussed.

item 3070 Sona

Daxterr2 votes

I don't think nauts ult cc's them for 3 seconds

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

he does at rank 3 ult. the knockup is 1 second, the stun is 1/1.5/2.

Wolfeur1 votes

I think the stun and the knock are simultaneous.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

thinking back, you may be right.

junglerboy161 votes

it scales with rank, but at max, it is supposed to knock them up for 1 second and then afterwards stun them for 1/1.5/2 (although I've seen a thread saying that there is currently either a tooltip error or a mechanical error where the stun is being applied simultaneously to the knockup, or the tooltip isn't supposed to say "stunning them for 1/1.5/2 seconds when they land"

Laraso4 votes

If we're basing this purely off of CC duration, then Morgana would easily be at the top with her 4.5 second lockdown. (7.5 seconds if you ult at the end of the snare instead of the beginning, and include the slow)

However, I don't think it's right to base an arbitrary attribute off of duration numbers.

DeathToEcchi2 votes

Naut has the highest CC of any champ in game. He can engage, disengage, and peel simultaneously. Leona has massive one shot CC but has to choose what she does with it.

Shockforce1 votes

Technically Mega Gnar has an epic 3 second aoe stun... if he can get it off.

Which I suppose can be easy enough if you coordinate with Anivia JarvanIV or perhaps Trundle

Cookie was taken3 votes

{quoted}

While we're at it, add a "Disruption" or "Crowd Control" attribute.

Mordekaiser : 0 Lissandra : 7 Nautilus : 11

Leona : lv STUN CITYYYYYYYY

IcyPepper1 votes

How about utility?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Mordekaiser has 0 mobility if you're not including CC. He's at -3 if someone lands a slow.

Laraso1 votes

I wasn't rating those champions on their mobility. I was rating them on how much CC they have.

Oops1 votes

true, champion needs cc or mobilty and if it doesnt have one of them he is an adc

Dr Poro1 votes

Even ADC needs some CC/mobility. The only champ without either that I can think of is Mordekaiser. Oh wait, he has received some kind of mobility with his E. Litterally every champion currently has something that grants mobility and/or CC (sometimes just a mediocre speed buff or slow, but still..)

ADD CC AND MOBILITY ATTRIBUTES! It's also a lot more objective than the current attributes.

Leti the Yeti25 votes

http://puu.sh/huKKq/c1553a3b3c.png

Handsome Jhin7 votes

http://i.imgur.com/pkcPJms.png

Get on my level.

FalconPawwwwnch21 votes

LOL? Udyr in the same league as kalista? Are you trolling?

Yimmortal1 votes

How would you rate him? A spammable 35% ms boost for 3 sec looks like a solid 10 to me

Destínum14 votes

Udyr is insanely kitable. He's way less mobile than Yi for instance. At best a 6 or 7.

A Tall Joke4 votes

That mobility is limited by soft cap on MS and the inability to go over obstacles. Also compounded by the fact that he's very kitable (any disables still hit him for full strength).

Also, why is Lux more mobile than Malzahar? Lux and Malz should both be 1.

Treyen8 votes

it would mean about as much as the other ratings they give champions. which is jack all.

PubgamerAU6 votes

Problem is, there's no quantifiable way to calculate this new attribute. Some abilities that allow you to hop walls are a little longer, but slightly shorter cooldown. How do you calculate a teleport which makes you immune to cc versus a dash that lets you be cc'd, since one is obviously superior to the other. What about champions that build CDR in their regular builds versus champions that don't? They'll have lower cooldown mobility, but would they be ranked the same, or if not, how would you calculate possible builds into it?

There's too many factors. This wont happen anytime soon.

Laraso37 votes

The problem with your post is that champions are also given a "difficulty" attribute. How do you quantify difficulty? You can't, so this shouldn't be a problem.

PubgamerAU1 votes

That difficulty attribute is a leftover relic from when LoL was first released. How difficult a champion is to play is also relatively quantifiable. Does a champion need fast reflexes? Do they need to have above average positional awareness? Do they take a while to get up and running? Are their skills easy to understand or require a more advanced knowledge of the game?

Someone like Singed is a ridiculously easy champion to understand, is tanky, fast(due to being melee), and has the ability to hamper anyone chasing him, which makes him a rather easy champion to play and understand. A champions difficulty also doesn't change based on which items are buffed/nerfed, or whether the champion has skills buffed/nerfed.

Compare that to Elise. She has 7 skills + a passive to understand. They become powerful when using them in combo's, rather than by itself. It's very plain that Singed is a far easier champion to play/understand than a champion like Elise.

All of those things, and more, can be used to quantify a (albeit archaic) difficulty score. You can't quantify a mobility attribute because the game is different from match to match. 1 match you may get a lot of attack speed, so Kalista becomes one of the most mobile champions in the game. Another match, you might not get as fed/farmed and only purchase flat damage items like IE, BT, LW, and hence not be as mobile as other champions.

There's also the fact that runes/masteries would change how "mobile" a champion is. CDR runes, movement speed runes, and ditto for masteries. Is this mobility attribute going to be calculated on a player by player, rune page by rune page, mastery page by master page, basis? That's a lot of processing power just for an attribute that people usually wont even look at in the first place. People already inherently understand champions without looking at their specific attributes. Riven is already a very mobile champion. We don't need an attribute to see that, since we can't just look at the champion using their skills to understand it.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

thats why it should be the amount of mobility in your kit not the amount of mobility you actualy output in-game

just as with dificulty the current ballance is not taken into account, but how dificult is your kit to use at its max potential

PubgamerAU1 votes

So you would have an unchanging attribute in game that provides no real information because items/runes/masteries can change how a champion is played in their entirety?

What use would that serve? What would players get out of that?

When you see an Ahri in game, you know that when she hits 6, she's going to be mobile as shit. Are you suddenly going to start ignoring common sense and rely on a number between 1 and 10 to tell you if a champion is mobile or not? Or are you going to actually play the game, and see how the champion is played to make that determination yourself?

Knight SoIaire 3 votes

So you would have an unchanging attribute in game that provides no real information because items/runes/masteries can change how a champion is played in their entirety?

aplies almoust to any other atibute besides the dificulty

Are you suddenly going to start ignoring common sense and rely on a number between 1 and 10 to tell you if a champion is mobile or not?

aplies to any other attribute without exception this time

LankPants9 votes

Oddly enough there is a quantification for difficulty. It's the ratio of the overall wins of a champ in their first game to their overall win rate.

LeeDark1 votes

And there is just as easily a way to quantify mobility. How long does it take a champion to get from point A to point B? They can use their abilities as often as possible to get there, and they get a score based on the time it takes. You might have to artificially adjust certain champions, like Kalista, who have conditional mobility, but it is still certainly quantifiable.

Leti the Yeti3 votes

Is mobility only define by dashes and such? the ability to go through walls? are they based off only the champion's kit? then why are factors like a wall play into a champion's stats? are builds a factor? Rammus has a potential of 30k MS, Kalista wouldn't be very fast without her runaans... what about a speed stat? special cases like Udyr, Captain of the Kenyan track team, can easiy catch up to someone who has dashed away, depending on positioning may also catch up to someone who has dashed through a wall.. although not time efficient despite said-merits does that automatically place his stat below any other champion with a dash? how are "bursts of speed"(typically any nonspammable dash) measured compared to "consistent speed"(bear stance, overdrive, etc.)? and this could go on forever , mobility comes in many forms do we need MORE categories?

Junkο4 votes

By that logic TF, Nocturne, Pantheon and such would be 10 despite being almost completely unmobile besides their ults (with TF being completely unmobile)

Yimmortal5 votes

One way wre can measure it is through a point system.

For instance, gap closers get 2 points movespeed boots get 1 point x duration teleport/ abilities that lets you get past walls get 3 points global abilities get 4 points

Master yi would get 2 points for his gapcloser, 3 points becuase his q can be used to get past walls but its not reliable so -1 points and he also gets a rather long lasting ult so 4 points for that for a grand total of 8 points.

This is just one hypothetical way of measuring it.

PubgamerAU1 votes

Once again, how do you account for things like CDR or rune/mastery page boosts?

Take your example: Master Yi builds a Warrior buffed jungle blade, and follows that up with a brutalizer. He also has 4 points in Sorcery from the offensive tree(very common: 5% CDR > 5% attack speed). He now has 25% CDR, meaning he can use his abilities MUCH more often. How can you possibly justify keeping his 'mobility attribute' the same as a Yi who doesn't buy those items or use that mastery?

What about masteries and runes that give bonuses to move speed? Do you not think base move speed should play a part in calculating a mobility attribute?

LeeDark2 votes

That part about 5% CDR being better than 5% attack speed isn't strictly true. 5% attack speed essentially is a 5% reduction in the cooldown period between attacks. The real difference is in the hard cap. The cap on attack speed is a hard 2.5, but reaching that cap with percentage increases depends on your base attack speed and growth, whereas the cap on cooldown reduction is simply a flat 40%, easily reached with two items.

As to the idea of a mobility stat, gap closers themselves are not strictly mobility. You could artificially adjust for them to give a champion a little boost, but they are completely useless in moving around the map or running away from someone except in very fringe cases. A champion's mobility is how long it takes for them to get from point A to point B, using whatever means they have at their disposal.

PubgamerAU2 votes

Once again: CDR plays a huge role in whether a champion goes from point A to point B in 10 seconds or 6.

Now lets assume that this magical system of yours somehow calculates a champions mobility attribute on the fly as a game progresses and they buy items/level up skills. Now what? That attribute isn't going to teach new players anything, because it's changing so often. One minute Ahri might be a 4, then the moment she hits level 6, she becomes an 7? Now what if she goes back and completes a morello's, does she become an 8? What about when her flash is off cooldown? Does she become a 9? a 10?

This just isn't a viable concept to introduce. It serves no purpose that either isn't already served in the game(ability to decide how mobile a champion is > easily judged from looking at their level and items), or is too complicated to provide any reliable information.

BuzzinTate1 votes

what would you say rammus would be at then, like 7?

1x7 seconds

IcyPepper5 votes

I'm pretty sure Udyr isn't a 10. He has a speedboost, but he can't hop walls. Vi is more mobile than him. Vi would probably be a 7, while Udyr would be around a 5.

Lee would be a 10, Riven would be an 8(?), Leblanc would probably be a 9-10, Sona would be a 6-7 (due to her aura, not her own mobility), and Fiora would be a 5. Just examples, but those are my two cents.

xLordZantx3 votes

What I would like to know is in what parameters do we evaluate mobility.Off the top of my head i am seeing like.

  1. Move speed that is reliant on hitting a target like Viktor 's upgraded Q. 2.Self targeting move speed like Skarner's W. 3.Gap closers that require a target like Maokai's W,Kalista ,LeeSin 4.Free movement in any direction dashes like Aatrox Ezreal Vi

Now even after you find all the possible categories for mobility you must have some form of a baseline and then add or subtract accordingly. Like champion with 0 mobility and 0 move speed abilities will have a rating of 0. Move speed that is reliant on hitting a target would be a 3. Self targeting move speed 5 Free movement in any direction dashes like a 8

Then even if you are able to put in place a broad standard for mobility,you still have to specify how move speed affect the mobility rating. You have to identify how reliable a champions mobility ,in its range of ability,conditions required to activate the mobility, cooldowns and a bunch of other stuff I clearly don't understand as seen in my poorly made post.

Rikari2 votes

Lux has mobility?

Kochiya Sanae1 votes

you think mobility is needed when chogath with 2 ap items can Q-flash-R to 100-0 a vayne 45 minutes into in the game?

Orangesilk20 votes

If a Vayne gets hit by a Cho'Gaths Q with no previous CC on, she deserves dying.

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