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@ Mapcle Nectar - in regards to your response about jungle spawn timers

KnifeCat··59 votes·14,190 views

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=MQob4lFt,comment-id=001c0000,timestamp=2018-04-27T21:47:07.556+0000)

Jungle feeling like a perpetual PvE experience also isn't super compelling to me - though feel free to disagree. "Forcing" junglers to interact with other players in the game, be it the opposing jungler or through ganking a lane, makes a game of League far more dynamic in my opinion.

I don’t think being forced to gank or do nothing is super compelling either.

Junglers should go for ganks when they see opportunities, that is how it should be.. forcing ganking, means you’re forcing junglers to camp lanes. Which is the current problem with jungle...

I honestly believe forcing people to camp a lane is not good gameplay, pushing people into one playstyle where they either gank or do nothing, is not “more dynamic”. The role isn’t “ganker”, it’s “jungler”.

Also what about farming junglers like Yi? do they for the most part sit out another season cause they’re bad at ganking, but can no longer farm up instead ?

These are the issues you should have been looking at for the jungle..

Instead of introducing new RNG elements that favour only the fastest clearing, strongest early game champions...

Honestly, i believe you are way off the mark with these jungle changes.

19 Comments

WorksAtAGayBar35 votes

Probably the least enjoyable thing about this season for me as a mid main is the substantial increase in ganks.

Aptest3 votes

oh, so when you roam and gank its fun, but when you get roamed on and ganked its not?

WorksAtAGayBar9 votes

{quoted}

oh, so when you roam and gank its fun, but when you get roamed on and ganked its not?

I never said anything about ganks in general being anti-fun, just the fact that there has been a huge increase since preseason. Ganks are totally fine no one is complaining about that in itself but you can't deny junglers do not have to worry about the risk vs reward in terms of ganking and farming nearly as much as they had to in the past seasons.

Aptest1 votes

what i said was intended as a pun.

No, i can not deny this. Because the strict division of the jungle to farm time and gank time caused that. I agree with you, this wasn't the way to go. As it kinda deleted a 'power triangle' that existed in the jungle prior and exerted some pick pressure on jungle mains.

angelicx19 votes

These changes further prove to me how out of touch Rito is. They literally have no idea what they’re doing.

Even the pros think these changes are horrible:

https://twitter.com/Amazingxlol/status/989990263576842241

https://twitter.com/Dardochlol/status/989996628437123072

https://twitter.com/Shakarez/status/989967895944925185

https://twitter.com/Santorin/status/989971860707098624

https://twitter.com/Kubz91/status/989992448620281856

https://twitter.com/LoLTarzaned/status/989972542478790656

Spank the Fox2 votes

{quoted}

These changes further prove to me how out of touch Rito is. They literally have no idea what they’re doing.

Even the pros think these changes are horrible:

https://twitter.com/Amazingxlol/status/989990263576842241

https://twitter.com/Dardochlol/status/989996628437123072

https://twitter.com/Shakarez/status/989967895944925185

https://twitter.com/Santorin/status/989971860707098624

https://twitter.com/Kubz91/status/989992448620281856

https://twitter.com/LoLTarzaned/status/989972542478790656

Who the fuck cares what the pros think? We have a stagnant meta because they bitch about every little change that stops them from auto-piloting the game.

Shit like this pisses me off because Riot WILL cater to their every whim.

They can potentially be correct, I’m not denying the changes are bad, but they haven’t even tested it. Heaven forbid the potential to create a different meta that forces laners to potentially engage on particular objectives that aren’t Dragon/Baron.

Killer of Night91 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a9wQ5tVE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-04-28T08:47:18.104+0000)

Who the fuck cares what the pros think? We have a stagnant meta because they bitch about every little change that stops them from auto-piloting the game.

Shit like this pisses me off because Riot WILL cater to their every whim.

They can potentially be correct, I’m not denying the changes are bad, but they haven’t even tested it. Heaven forbid the potential to create a different meta that forces laners to potentially engage on particular objectives that aren’t Dragon/Baron.

To be honest Pro solo Q is different from Pro play and this streamer comment are for soloQ section and not for proplay. Pro solo Q play more for fun than the Pro play and actually this change is aimed more for soloQ. This "OBJECTIVE" will just kill the worst clearer and if you don't have smite up you have no way to contest it. If you don't get this you will facetank the enemy duellist because you blown up your speel just to steal/take the crub and a duellist have more window to kill enemy in 1v1 with no skill up than the enemy so YES THIS CHANGE IS BAD and have no way to be correctly. Do you want to see nerf ww/xin/shyvana and other early game high clear because of this stupid crab? Everyone Know that this change is even worst that the mana change from mage but this time it's not aimed because of pro play but more into soloQ (Where jungler pressure is even more hight than pro play).

sKz Aaron D5 votes

Trick also thinks that they aren't taking into account how it will affect the rest of the game, and that it will be a total failure.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Those junglers you mentioned are bad lul. Can't agree or disagree with the jungle changes though, we must wait and see the numbers first.

no to toxic1 votes

But why post a picture of Nidalee here

Judge Steven2 votes

That's the pic tarzaned uses on twitter

CytheGuy12 votes

Ganks are meant to be a surprise. If they keep coming all the time, it's not a surprise anymore. As a jungle main since Season 1, I can safely say that I always liked having some down-time between the action, as well as a (mostly) safe period to just farm and build levels. Laning was always a bit out-of-style for me because there was always the threat of being poked if they had the range advantage or initated on if the enemy laner was good at it. Changing jungle to make it just risk-reward 24/7 dumps it in with my personal opinion on laning.

Coltrane1 votes

You only have to take a look at which junglers are in the meta right now: Kha, WW, Xin Zhao, Jax, Shaco... Fastest clear and better ganks. Heavy metal all across the rift. I miss when the jungle was a very strategic "lane" where you had to really focus on your pathing if you didn't want to be left behind. Good lord, some times ganking a lane wasn't even worth, even when getting the kill, as you would fall behind in XP. This last few months I've seen consistently junglers running from one lane to the other, gank after gank, and keeping the same lvl as the other jungler, or even higher. Let's keep the ganks up, but as someone said let junglers be junglers, and not only gankers.

ZaNJeTsU9 votes

[deleted]

Spank the Fox5 votes

{quoted}

At least DotA is fun.

ZaNJeTsU4 votes

yea, But it's full of Russians and it's hard to communicate, I hope they made a russian server so I can play with people I can communicate with :(

SergeantScuttler3 votes

His comment is super ignorant about JG. That's like saying laning is PvE because you have to spend the majority of your time killing minions. The way you deny farm, pressure even as a JG is a huge part of the skill test. Do I path better? Do I optimize my clears better? Do I deny the enemy jungler in XP/gold possibly interrupting his paths while simultaneously being aware of my camp timers to be as efficient as possible? This isn't PvE at all, it's just a cerebral role. And making it harder to get level 3 certainly makes it more bland and offers fewer early game decisions to make. You just go smack another camp around because you're forced to. I hope at least they make later spawns give more XP if they nerf JG XP yet again when it's not even strong. If JG were strong, I as a JG main would play it in placements in Silver level games on new accounts but I've found mid actually is way stronger for that.

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Then add another lane ffs. If you don't want there to be a jungler make room for another source of income. As it is there's only this minor pve aspect because the game was designed this way. Saying this isn't a good part of the game is kind of ridiculous.

Teridax681 votes

I think that Maple reply shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what jungling is meant to be in MOBAs -- it doesn't have to be this either-or between total PvE and total PvP, and the PvE aspect should itself be compelling and challenging. From the sounds of it, it feels like Riot simply looks down on the actual jungling aspect of jungling, because they don't think the PvE component can be fun or interesting. This is something that can be immediately disproven by looking at other MOBAs with jungles, where camps frequently have their own mechanics that can be played around, and who can truly challenge the player. Even the Scuttle Crab is a good example of this, since chasing her and hitting her through her dashes can be compelling. It worries me that Riot would work on jungle changes with this kind of approach, because to me this means their changes are unlikely to solve the issues with jungling right now, and even the broad lines of the direction they've set may be wrong. Ideally, a jungler should be valued both for ganking and for getting camps, and different junglers may specialize in both, but jungling as a whole shouldn't try to push all junglers into either extreme. We need junglers to spend more time and resources clearing camps, and if that's not fun, then those camps need to be made more interesting to fight. RNG does not need to play a part in this.

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