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Thoughts on Rengar

KnifeCat··165 votes·3,315 views

According to Rito, he's finally "healthy" after several nerfs (seven), which finally plummeted his win rate to 46%

is he really finally healthy though? i think not. more like neutered, rather than healthy. if you need to nerf a champ that much, that his win rate drops that low, then no, he is not/was not healthy. Quite the opposite in fact. Before he was gutted, current Rengar was an abomination, he was tanky with old Rengar's dmg (thanks to free dmg from passive/ult) can't be cc'd, has insane heals, ult to zone people off objectives. all while being far easier to play.

Besides that, his playstyle is no longer fun, and doesn't feel at all like a hunter/assassin. You guys said prior to the assassin update, that Rengar will remain an assassin... Well he's no longer an assassin.. He doesn't at all fit his theme/identity any more. Where in Rengar's lore does he use ult to zone enemies ???

His kit has knocked him out of the assassin role. Ult warns people from miles away and is better used for zoning now. The rest of his kit had to be overloaded with so much free damage (passive, crit on ult) to make up for the massive warning indicator. He has so much free damage that you can just build mainly tank and still do huge damage.. it's silly. The W heal is also better suited for a tank/bruiser.

Don't get me started on how clunky/silly his new Q feels..

Now i'm not calling for a full revert, but i do think some serious adjustments (maybe even another rework) need to be made, to make Rengar feel like a Hunter once again..

41 Comments

Dreadlocks19 votes

I wonder when riot will at least address the players...

slsilvernail6 votes

Ikr I've been keeping up with the post since it came out, come on riot, you failed, get back up and give the community the real rengar back.

Dreadlocks7 votes

The thing that bothers me the most is how some of this community can be so hostile.. Like yeah i don't like Fizz's E but that doesnt mean i wish the champ to be gutted.. I know i just suck at playing vs it. But i wouldn't wish anyone whos passionate about their favorite champ to be gutted or reworked into something he was never meant to be...

At the end of the day we all play the same game for the same (or similar) reasons.. if we met in real life, chances are we wouldn't be like "oh you play fizz, ur a %%%got bro" no you would prob become friends cuz u found sm1 who shares the same interests as you.

item 3070

Jbels1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rengar Revert,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xqApyme,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-12T02:51:07.253+0000)

I wonder when riot will at least address the players...

Never. Mordekaiser was ruined and CertainlyT still hasn't even apologized for the fucking rollercoaster Morde has been on because of his stupid ideas

Hitman Reñgar1 votes

Pretty sure he will get a new rework at some point though. He isn't just forgotten.

THE RlVER KlNG4 votes

Took me this long to realize your name is Rengar Revert. Props.

Small Tiddies1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rengar Revert,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xqApyme,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-12T02:51:07.253+0000)

I wonder when riot will at least address the players...

If they will at all, they certainly didn't give a fuck about Aatrox players.

Hitman Reñgar10 votes

I see no harm in going back right before the rework and do some small tweaks to his OLD kit. He should feel fair to play against but also to use, unlike now.

Cloud2737 votes

Assassin Rengar was cancer and is never coming back. The current version of Rengar isn't perfect, but he's definitely healthier than before his rework. Before the rework he would just pop out of stealth and one shot you. At least now you have time to react after he jumps on you.

Kadius7 votes

You do realize current Rengar oneshots faster than before right? With less effort? Imagine old Rengar Q that could crit on every leap, thats his new ult basically. He just jumps on you, does a 2.5k damage auto and finishes you off with tiamat+Q. If you think new Rengar has "counterplay" you're delusional.

Dusk Mane Rengar2 votes

Assassin Rengar was the INTENDED playstyle with the rework is should come back.

Old Rengar just needed his oneshot and insta snare removed and he would have been a OK champion.

OP Garen Support1 votes

Rengar mains dont care about reasoning they will downvote anyone who does not glorify him. They are toxic bunch, they dont deserve the revert. Riot changed him because he was toxic to the game. He is not liked now because he is no longer a free win champ.

-meanwhile incoming downvotes by butthurt Rengar mains with nothing to back up their claim.

Rarely Mortal8 votes

{quoted}

Rengar mains dont care about reasoning they will downvote anyone who does not glorify him. They are toxic bunch, they dont deserve the revert. Riot changed him because he was toxic to the game. He is not liked now because he is no longer a free win champ.

-meanwhile incoming downvotes by butthurt Rengar mains with nothing to back up their claim.

There are people who don't even play Rengar but would rather have old Rengar than new Rengar, like me. Using "they don't derserve the revert, because they are toxic" isn't going to justify it. You don't have to be a bitch about it.

OP Garen Support1 votes

I got downvoted even after saying to revert Rengar but nerf him properly so he is not unfair to play against. Anything that is not revert him to his broken state is downvoted. I understand the pain of having your champ dumpstered like Malzahar or Sion got deleted overall. Even so it is pissing me off that anyone who have different opinion are insulted and downvoted.

"There are people who don't even play Rengar but would rather have old Rengar than new Rengar, like me." -that makes absolutely no sense. You either played the old 1 and like 1 it or you did not play it and dont give a damn.

I played with the old Rengar and played against him (he was spammed a lot), he was very unhealthy for the game.

Old Rengar was worse then Yasuo in the no counter play department.

Guess what even more people would spam the boards about Rengar being broken if he got reverted. Now you guys have more people agreeing with you because most of the player base dont give a damn about Rengar but once he is back to ruining games, we will outnumber you.

By the way Riot does not respond because all of you are childish who do not accept facts

Rarely Mortal5 votes

{quoted} "There are people who don't even play Rengar but would rather have old Rengar than new Rengar, like me." -that makes absolutely no sense. You either played the old 1 and like 1 it or you did not play it and dont give a damn.

How does that not make sense, are you really that thick headed? LMFAO. There are people that hate the current rengar because he can assassinate people and soak 10k damage with his W and deal insane AOE with his Q in a teamfight, not to mention the insane AD he gets from passive. Then we got the old one where he can assasinate people and die instantly. He we will either be really useful or really useless. The current one is makes him always relevant whether he is behind or not. If you think everyone that doesn't play Rengar hate the old and is fine with the current one, then you are very deluded, buddy.

OP Garen Support2 votes

Im ok with reverting him if he gets nerfed properly. You only prove my point of being toxic if you insult me.

subhuman team XD2 votes

They are toxic bunch, they dont deserve the revert.

at first glance your completly against the revert and even hostile against rengarmains , now for some reason your ok with the revert , can you make up your mind already ? your attitude alone shows how delusional you are lol

OP Garen Support2 votes

This is not my first comment on the topic. No matter what I say I get insulted. "your attitude alone shows how delusional you are lol" again nothing to add only insulting

RÊNGÁR1 votes

you are more self-contradicting than riot is. you will change your opinion in seconds to support your argument. Came at rengar mains in a toxic manner, got shot down, a simple rotation for children with no filter.

OP Garen Support1 votes

I got hate for saying revert him but not to his broken state he was, but balance him a bit. I got pissed that I was insulted from the start (Rengar mains started being toxic to me in the first place even after siding with the revert).I still think you guys are way toxic.

It feels like talking to : Yasuo Riven Vayne Fiora mains

Cloud2732 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unseen Predator,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xqApyme,comment-id=0003000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-12T17:10:07.052+0000)

at first glance your completly against the revert and even hostile against rengarmains , now for some reason your ok with the revert , can you make up your mind already ? your attitude alone shows how delusional you are lol

Anyone who thinks old Rengar should come back is delusional.

FighterA2367 votes

Riot honestly fucked up the rengar's playerbase so hard. They said that rengar would still have the old assassin kit for the assassin rework, but after several nerfs he isn't even considered a diver anymore.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Winrates are deceptive. Ryze at his peak (P&B in diamond+ and coordinated Proplay) has 45% winrate. healthy winrate varies depending on which champion we are talking about.

SSShutTheDuckUp5 votes

Which version of Ryze?

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Current.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

Not sure if the two designs are comparable. IMO Ryze is just impossible to balance due to how much more effective he is in coordinated teams. Similar to Shen for example, who has been pick/ban in proplay, while being almost inviable in soloQ. And I find this a bummer, because I actually like current Ryze.

subhuman team XD1 votes

the answer is simple , there are 2 possible to make rengar not only satisfying to play as but also AGAINST(preserve counterplay/outplay aspect) that ofc includes a partial revert :

1st possibility : revert his Q to the old (mechanicly , as in being an auto enhancer/reset) BUT , instead of it having % total ad , it should have % bonus scaling ad with base damage on it , emp Q's % bonus dmg should be removed since it will have a slightly higher base dmg and also the attack speed steroid MUST BE adjusted or even removed if it was too unhealthy (this will tone down critgar a little bit and make his burst a little bit less frustrating) , second thing is his ferocity , it should be back to the same way it was BUT the only different thing from old rengar is his R no longer grants ferocity stacks after ulting , but also brings all the stacks (no matter the number) back to 0 , this will prevent the TRIPLE Q scenarios or generally (triple empowered abilities) scenario to avoid all kinds of frustrating burst

2nd possibility : his Q should be the same thing as the 1st possibility , exept the only difference here is , his ferocity has the same mechanic as current rengar the only difference between the two is , when rengar ults he gains a full complete empowered ability after landing that generates over time so he wont get 2 or 3 empowered abilities only 1 after landing forcing him to make a very difficult decision in order to get his target (again you can see the difference between these two possibilities) they both have counterplay in them one way or another

KnifeCat4 votes

These fixes do not fix the main issue with Rengar.. Changing his Q won't make him an assassin/hunter again. Fixing that issue lies in fixing his Ult.

I don't like current Q as much as any other Rengar main, but Rengar with current Q, and old ult, WOULD be an assassin.

The Q (as shitty of an animation it is) does not influence Rengar's playstyle the way his ult does.

Currently, his ult has TOO much counterplay, i'm not suggesting a full revert on it, but they need to adjust it. I suggest making a global sound when Rengar ults. This would still allow plenty of counterplay, as you will know he's ultied and can react, but it doesn't tell you exactly where he is, like CURRENT ult indicator does. (of course remove the free crit for this change)

This change alone makes Rengar an assassin again.

Q changes are more of a "quality of life" change, which make him smoother and return his awesome animation. That is all though..

RÊNGÁR1 votes

except for this Q does have a cast time, and you're not able to control your champ while using it, making it less fluent for assassinations, yet making it stronger in the sense it does aoe damage.

MsKatlyn1 votes

I think in the next couple of patches they're gonna buff him, I thinking making his ult stealth again with shorter CD and it generating ferocity again would fix this clunky Rengar.

His ult is just honestly shit now, you have to use it very smart.

NaturesMayhem1 votes

Agreed, I loved old Rengar ult. I have to admit though that it was kind of unfair because I would just ult and practically disappear. It was practically a free escape if the enemy didn't have a vision item. Instead of bringing back the stealth, I feel that keeping the camouflage and allowing him to leap on anyone instead of only the marked enemy would be better.

BabyNaix1 votes

I actually like the new rengar more. With his passive, he get something from the mini game with khazix. His q give aoe damage so he can clear the jungle faster and healthier. The old rengar will have a lot of trouble with the season 7 camps especially on the red side. Now he can get his items faster and ad items have more value on him with his passive.

subhuman team XD1 votes

are you ok ?

BabyNaix1 votes

IF you down vote me at least give an explanation why

subhuman team XD1 votes

first of all i did not downvote you , second of all , you just joined this game making you unexperienced with old rengar therefor you wont know what old rengar felt like or how he was anyway , you just like new rengar because he got introduced in the assassin rework , ofc new players will like something they never played before and will like a "reworked" version of him and FYI rengar wasnt a jungler only , alot of people played him top more than jungle just so you know ...

GULAG 4 U1 votes

People have smurfs hello?

NaturesMayhem1 votes

Mained Rengar before the rework and I feel that the AoE Q would be better for razorbeaks and Krugs. However, I dislike the way it works. It over complicates the ability and it's clunky.

Dengeden1 votes

more like neutered, rather than healthy

Why is he banned in LCS then? That sounds like "hard to play" or "requires coordination" to me.

Besides that, his playstyle is no longer fun, and doesn't feel at all like a hunter/assassin.

Only because the so-called community can't decide what they want from assassins. Riot tried to go into a direction that wasn't "imma OS you" because of that.

He has so much free damage that you can just build mainly tank and still do huge damage

This is also known as "something that basically every AD melee does".

Pedis1 votes

{quoted}

Why is he banned in LCS then? That sounds like "hard to play" or "requires coordination" to me.

Only because the so-called community can't decide what they want from assassins. Riot tried to go into a direction that wasn't "imma OS you" because of that.

This is also known as "something that basically every AD melee does".

He's not really banned in lcs as much as zac/elise/kha/lee and if he is it's because is ult now works as a zoning tool, and not how his ult was originally meant to work. Revert is necessary.

NaturesMayhem1 votes

I have 330k, Mastery Rank 7, and the NightHunter skin for Rengar. You get about 1k for a win and only around 100-200 for a lose. That means I would have played at least 330 games with Rengar, that is about 1/5th of all my games since I started in Season 4. Also, I played Rengar before the mastery release so who knows how many more games I could have with him. However, I have not played Rengar since the first few nerfs after his release. Nothing has upset me more than the repeated nerfs to Rengar's kit. There is a difference between a healthy nerf and completely shitting on the champion.

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