Another PBE patch, and ofcourse nothing has been addressed, once again

KnifeCat··103 votes·3,996 views

Damage is still INSANELY high, across the board.

No changes to fix game pacing.

Adc itemisation still hasn't been touched

Top lane is still unplayable..

Duskblade is still broken.

Supports are still overtuned.

League of stopwatch is still a thing.

Junglers still have nothing better to do than camp lanes, because they can't farm, due to the insanely long spawn timers on their camps.

4 patches into the season, and a whole preseason, and literally 0 issues have been addressed. Even though Meddler said they'd address game pacing in 8.3, but i guess not.

Why do we keep getting miniature nerfs and buffs every patch (most of which have nothing to do with any of the big issues) rather than actual meaningful changes that balance the game?

i feel like ever since the ardent meta, Rito has stopped balancing their game. They've just stopped. They literally do nothing about anything, patch after patch, and it's getting frustrating as hell. No wonder Hashinshin is losing his mind.

The most frustrating part is most of these issues can easily be addressed, lower ambient gold and give towers a meaningful buff, to address game pacing.

Revert those +5/10 damage to every champs ability that they did for no reason in pre season. This made sense when i first seen it, cause runes were being removed right ? so no more +15 AD from runes, ok makes sense. Then new runes release and they give you base damage anyways! so why did we buff everyone's ability damage across the board ? while also removing defensive stats from runes ?

Nerf damage from runes across the board, runes just give WAY too much free damage. Runes that give free items/gold, like Klepto, magical footwear, stopwatch, also need a balance pass.

% damage on runes is not ok. Coup de grace gives 7% increased damage, which is almost double the old rune... Why? if multiple people took this rune, you'd instantly get blown up by anything anytime you were below half health. It's just absurd.

Raise the cost of shiv/RFC/PD, these items are far too cost efficient. Also Shiv/RFC passive should not stack. These changes alone would make Adc's far more tolerable.

Then you can nerf duskblade, once adc's are more tolerable, assassins wouldn't need an insanely overtuned item just to kill them. Raise it's cost a little and reduce the proc damage slightly.

As far as top lane goes, i feel like tanks need to be addressed. They are able to 1v1 fighters/bruisers and just about anyone, and they're also tankier than bruisers, while having far more CC/utility.. It's just no fun. Even if you somehow kill a tank early, they just outscale you regardless, with their high base damage while getting tankier. They are also one of the most dominant classes in team fights.. They're just too good at everything. Why play a bruiser when a tank does their job better + more ? They can even split push almost as effectively these days..

105 Comments

Blåbæret23 votes

"but pre-season guys"

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Z3Sleeper14 votes

They're changing mages across the board first (items), which could completely change the meta.

One thing at a time friend.

Nevrankroaton13 votes

K genius, they just worked on several things (Volibear state, Rengar's main b*tching about their champ getting a revert + work to balance it, AP itemisation, gnar nerfed, Frozen Mallet nerfed for range) but yeah, they don't tackle anything at all.

They should have done 700 changes note at the same time.

Glad to see the board is still fuel with stupidty.

Iffy Jarl10 votes

Anything contrary to this man's beliefs will be downvoted to hell forewarning

Azadethe9 votes

You do realize you're basically calling every single role "overtuned" or "broken" How can they ALL be broken in the same way?

High damage makes people think twice about how they fight or build. That's far healthier than trial and error yoloing per game.

UnboundHades42 votes

you're basically saying power creep is good because you dont like to think about what to do

Azadethe8 votes

On the contrary. I main Nami, and I'm very used to "thinking" about what I'm doing. I can escape faster chases by 1v5's, Udyr, you name it. I counter those so called power creeps, and counter champs who intrinsically counter Nami , like Zoe Zed Vi Vayne Varus Udyr Tryndamere Sivir Shaco Nidalee Lux Jinx Jax Ezreal Illaoi Darius Fizz Akali

It's called timing and good predictions.

I also almost never die in a 5v5, because I know how to keep an entire team alive without making myself a target or using a item 3107 . I mean..... 71% average kill participation doesn't come from nowhere....

but ofc.... I also jungle, top, and mid..... and usually do so outside the meta, and pull 60-70% win rates with wierd builds like Karma Top vs Nasus with my first item being a item 3091 ..... what do I know? (My last game with that had 78 stacks of Grasp of the Undying on Karma.... the most damage on my team and the highest KDA...... what do I know......)

HarrisonOwns12 votes

None of that ignorance is relevant.

It says the same things.

Redemption is part of the problem.

Heals/Shields are part of the problem. (they're hyper-inflated right now)

Naiant4 votes

Which is good counterplay to duskblade users :)

Divewing2 votes

I'm 90% sure Riot won't touch Duskblade because it's basically a crutch item for AD Mids right now

KnifeCat18 votes

{quoted}

You do realize you're basically calling every single role "overtuned" or "broken" How can they ALL be broken in the same way?

High damage makes people think twice about how they fight or build. That's far healthier than trial and error yoloing per game.

i didn't say any of them are broken in the SAME way. Furthermore i didn't say EVERY role, mages are fine, assassins are fine for the exception of duskblade, which they NEED to deal with overtuned adcs, however it makes them insanely strong early vs their lane opponent. I also didn't say bruisers, or melee fighters were broken.

Just because i said multiple roles are currently unbalanced doesn't make it untrue. Should i just choose to talk about one ? as to not seem like i'm complaining about everything, no, there is issues with each of the roles i listed. Don't look at things with such a bleak view, "u have a problem with multiple roles so ur just complaining"

Papa Andrei8 votes

they addressed AP itemization like they said they would. Voila, your post is now null, cause they did address soemthing thats taken months.

KnifeCat30 votes

[{quoted}](name=Papa Andrei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-07T00:56:51.374+0000)

they addressed AP itemization like they said they would. Voila, your post is now null, cause they did address soemthing thats taken months.

Great, they addressed one thing, in the space of almost a year. Awesome, let's just forget about everything else now !

Kairoptra2 votes

Nice straw man [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Wolfeur3 votes

They also just nerfed and buffed some champions and nerfed Stopwatch. This PBE patch is the AP itemization patch, who knows what will happen to the meta after that?

Häxel3 votes

they addreses Gnar, this is a massive Buff for toplaners (hashinshin lost his mind, but this time for joy). Patch is one day out, pbe cylce as well so chill down. Such a thread you could have done maybe in 4 days or 1 week but not on first day. Things get included over the week as well. Saying on first day out that League of Stopwatch is still not over is kidna ridiculous. Just wait till competive shows up for example, than we can see again how many stopwatches will remain. Also if i remember correctly a resolvepathupdate should come 8.4 too. Like i said, things don't need to come all up on pbe on the first day. If you think damage is too high, going resolve secodnary should be a far more attractive choice.

DeusVult1 votes

Addressed gnar...

all they did was make his post 6 a LITTLE bit more interactive, as he cant just spam Q all lane and building FM on him is now worse, but still doable.

In compensation they made landing a big Gnar ult in a teamfight hit like a damn truck.

Addressing gnar is going to take more than little nerfs and compensation buffs, he is a champ who wins most lanes by being a great split-push duelist, but at the same time he is a GOD-TIER team fight tank

Häxel1 votes

little nerfs. Are you joking? Wow, he got Ultdamage and e damage while in reality he never realy hops onto you. In exchange he no longer permaslows you now. Not only he can't spam q that often aynmore but one of his coreitems got nerfed hard for him. This makes laning vs him quite easier and nto only accesable for tanks, other spamchampons and camille (e/ult). In highelo/competive gnar will be definetly be less viabel after this. Maybe he gets better in lowelo where probably jsut a minority even knew how to play him.

Hibeki1 votes

Lol if you think a 10% reduction on Q is no more permaslow when frozen exists you are sorely disappointed.

Häxel1 votes

did you even read carefully? "Frozen Mallet: Ranged attack slow lowered from 30% to 15%" Also the reductions is far more as 10% and shouldn't be handed lightfuly, as many counterabilitys (jumps/dashs) who had before a longer cd are now within a shorter.

Hibeki1 votes

That still doesn't matter, as he can endlessly keep up with his stupid 3 hit passives massive movespeed boost. So yes, you will continue to be permaslowed.

Häxel1 votes

Besie that every toplaner has basicly a movementability: Countless Movementspeed runes, Glacial Augment item 3009 , item 3071 , item 3142 , item 3800 , item 3742 , item 3025 , item 3143 and a item 3022 that has on melees a 40% slow while gnar just will now have a 15% slow with it. Could people stop bitching always all the time like to much/to less, nothing will be changed/this will break the champion etc before the change actual gets live? You can't tell anything before it gets live and you play at least 10, ebtter 50 Games vs Gnar. Even if you ahve a Pbe account, Pbe with high ping and trollign people doesn;t count.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Besie that every toplaner has basicly a movementability: Countless Movementspeed runes, Glacial Augment item 3009 , item 3071 , item 3142 , item 3800 , item 3742 , item 3025 , item 3143 and a item 3022 that has on melees a 40% slow while gnar just will now have a 15% slow with it. Could people stop bitching always all the time like to much/to less, nothing will be changed/this will break the champion etc before the change actual gets live? You can't tell anything before it gets live and you play at least 10, ebtter 50 Games vs Gnar. Even if you ahve a Pbe account, Pbe with high ping and trollign people doesn;t count.

[sg-ahri-1]

item 3071 only works if you hit him, good luck with all the movement speed and slows he gets plus his leap.

item 3009 isn't going to help you when he builds a item 3022

item 3142 few build this anymore top lane on bruisers and tanks are not going to build this either. Jayce will and Riven, but they hardly need the ms anyways.

item 3800 is a tank/juggernauts item, bruisers in top are not going to build this and even if used on a tank/juggers. Gnar still has his leap to say fuck you with and then his own slows from Q after leaping away.

item 3742 is a trash item and has been nerfed to much, also its still not going to help you against gnar.

item 3025 good luck getting in range as a melee to apply it more then once. He can also say fuck you with this by leaping away and continuing to kite you to death with item 3022

item 3143 has the same issue of item 3025, he will just leap away and keep perma kitting you.

item 3022 should be melee only, PERIOD. The change wont effect him, he doesn't actually need it to perma kite you and play well, so it being weaker wont make any difference because even if he builds it, his kit has more then enough to make up for this pathetic nerf.

Gnar is a broken overloaded champion, who's kit literally has everything but true damage. A ranged champ should not to get to be Kity, pokey, tanky, and have a ton of damage and escapes along with hard CC.

Häxel1 votes

Dude, i know that Gnar has a Broken Kit. I know that he is that Kity, pokey, tanky thing that is also viabel proplay since release. Still a nerf from 30% to 15% does matter. The whole thing needs not to be removed completly for range. Most meleeusers not even build this item. Gnar has currently a 50%winrate ok? I know that winrate is not funrate and it is anoying to play vs gnar. Still, just wait and see for yourself how patch 8.4 plays out. There will still be champions he will counter hard probably. But there will be a lot more champions to play agains thim jsut with the increased qcd and the mallet change. If he still would be to strong, farther nerfs to q or w still could come.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Dude, i know that Gnar has a Broken Kit. I know that he is that Kity, pokey, tanky thing that is also viabel proplay since release. Still a nerf from 30% to 15% does matter. The whole thing needs not to be removed completly for range. Most meleeusers not even build this item. Gnar has currently a 50%winrate ok? I know that winrate is not funrate and it is anoying to play vs gnar. Still, just wait and see for yourself how patch 8.4 plays out. There will still be champions he will counter hard probably. But there will be a lot more champions to play agains thim jsut with the increased qcd and the mallet change. If he still would be to strong, farther nerfs to q or w still could come.

Nerfs to Q or W wont do anything. What needs to be done is remove all the move speed her gets for free, then change his W from magic damage to physical damage so you can at least build against it.

Häxel1 votes

so than vayne top would be better? or by removing the movementspeed totaly every bruiser can fck him up while making w damage to physical so gnar would be useless vs tanks? why would anyone than still want to play gnar. Don't say his transformation engage, i could pick a malphite, with his odl gameplay desing he would be better in any situation if all these changes would be done. why not remove magic or true damage on every other champion who normaly is an ad, or just lets start with rangechampions: varus w needs to be physical, kogmaw w neets to be physical, vayne truedamage needs to be removed, same with twitch. Just implement more changes that would make tanks stronger as they are already.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

so than vayne top would be better? or by removing the movementspeed totaly every bruiser can fck him up while making w damage to physical so gnar would be useless vs tanks? why would anyone than still want to play gnar. Don't say his transformation engage, i could pick a malphite, with his odl gameplay desing he would be better in any situation if all these changes would be done. why not remove magic or true damage on every other champion who normaly is an ad, or just lets start with rangechampions: varus w needs to be physical, kogmaw w neets to be physical, vayne truedamage needs to be removed, same with twitch. Just implement more changes that would make tanks stronger as they are already.

Vayne is another champ that is fundamentally broken with little to no weakness other then her outplaying herself.

Removing all his free movement speed wouldn't fuck him against bruisers, it would just make him have to play smart. He would still have his dash/leap plus his slows and he would be played for his safety and his team fight winning CC in his mega form (damage in his mega isn't to be sneezed at either but comes with drawbacks unlike mini). He would actually have to play safe when he misses Q and doesn't have leap, something he really doesn't have to do because he gets a lot of free move speed.

He wouldn't be useless against tanks, he would still have %damage, it just wouldn't auto win him the game early and not allow him to just go merc mode on everyone mid game because of it. Varius is fine, he is immobile. Kog gets massive range and his issue is he scales to fast to easy while getting broken synergy with lulu and janna (really its just a meta issue with shields being OP), that needs nerfing. As said before Vayne is cancer, but its not her true damage that is cancer, twitch needs his stealth detection radius widened so he can't just do whatever he wants, all his move speed needs to be lowered while in stealth or the duration lowered.

Gnar does more then just fuck tanks, he fucks everyone melee that is not an assassin. That is not ok. Its fine to have tank busters. Trundle is a good example of a balanced tank buster, Wu Kong was but is now to weak because he had a similar problem as Gnar, he busted everyone and was nerfed for it.

Tanks need a nerf. Alistar Chogath Malphite Maokai Rammus Ornn Shen Sejuani TahmKench <---all of these need nerfs to their bases damage, they can have better scaling so if they want to do damage they have to sacrifice tackiness for it. The items don't need nerfing because this fucks Juggers and bruisers more then it fucks the tanks.

These tanks are fine Poppy Sion Singed Nautilus Braum and should be left alone.

Thracia1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=00010000000200000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-11T00:37:14.800+0000)

Vayne is another champ that is fundamentally broken with little to no weakness other then her outplaying herself.

Removing all his free movement speed wouldn't fuck him against bruisers, it would just make him have to play smart. He would still have his dash/leap plus his slows and he would be played for his safety and his team fight winning CC in his mega form (damage in his mega isn't to be sneezed at either but comes with drawbacks unlike mini). He would actually have to play safe when he misses Q and doesn't have leap, something he really doesn't have to do because he gets a lot of free move speed.

He wouldn't be useless against tanks, he would still have %damage, it just wouldn't auto win him the game early and not allow him to just go merc mode on everyone mid game because of it. Varius is fine, he is immobile. Kog gets massive range and his issue is he scales to fast to easy while getting broken synergy with lulu and janna (really its just a meta issue with shields being OP), that needs nerfing. As said before Vayne is cancer, but its not her true damage that is cancer, twitch needs his stealth detection radius widened so he can't just do whatever he wants, all his move speed needs to be lowered while in stealth or the duration lowered.

Gnar does more then just fuck tanks, he fucks everyone melee that is not an assassin. That is not ok. Its fine to have tank busters. Trundle is a good example of a balanced tank buster, Wu Kong was but is now to weak because he had a similar problem as Gnar, he busted everyone and was nerfed for it.

Tanks need a nerf. Alistar Chogath Malphite Maokai Rammus Ornn Shen Sejuani TahmKench <---all of these need nerfs to their bases damage, they can have better scaling so if they want to do damage they have to sacrifice tackiness for it. The items don't need nerfing because this fucks Juggers and bruisers more then it fucks the tanks.

These tanks are fine Poppy Sion Singed Nautilus Braum and should be left alone.

Shen is not that tanky late, his whole thing is he has good damage early but does not scale as well

Thracia1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=000100000002000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-10T15:09:59.501+0000)

Nerfs to Q or W wont do anything. What needs to be done is remove all the move speed her gets for free, then change his W from magic damage to physical damage so you can at least build against it.

Bro, a huge part of his gameplay is that he is very mobile while mini, and very imobile in mega. The free move speed is fine. If I had to change anything I would say longer cooldown on his e and maybe a bit shorter aa range

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Bro, a huge part of his gameplay is that he is very mobile while mini, and very imobile in mega. The free move speed is fine. If I had to change anything I would say longer cooldown on his e and maybe a bit shorter aa range

and that is the problem. You can dance around it and nerf ever part of his kid, but the problem is, the MS. Its always been the MS combined his jump into A Q slow. Nerf his move speed or remove it, increase his escapes cooldown to 20 secs rank one and decrease Q damage.

Thracia1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=00010000000200000000000000000000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-14T04:31:20.359+0000)

and that is the problem. You can dance around it and nerf ever part of his kid, but the problem is, the MS. Its always been the MS combined his jump into A Q slow. Nerf his move speed or remove it, increase his escapes cooldown to 20 secs rank one and decrease Q damage.

No they should not, its a large past of his identity, it's like if they took away Zed's ability to 1-shot a squishy, or if they removed Garen's armor shred on his spin

PePsiLemoNN7 votes

Yeah they did literally nothing , except , you know : Mage items rework , 2 new mage items , completely changed jungle items. Darn Riot , not breaking the game by doing 200 changes at once.

Meanwhile none of the mage mains that were bitching about build diversity will be like ''they actually did exactly what we suggested''.

Jinx Hunter5 votes

{quoted}

Yeah they did literally nothing , except , you know : Mage items rework , 2 new mage items , completely changed jungle items. Darn Riot , not breaking the game by doing 200 changes at once.

Meanwhile none of the mage mains that were bitching about build diversity will be like ''they actually did exactly what we suggested''.

the AP changes wont do much except make the current meta AP's even more cancer. Hope you enjoy Azir Malzahar Katarina Akali Xerath Kassadin Orianna Vladimir Veigar because their about to get stronger and anyone that's not them is still going to be overshadowed.

Illivashi4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-02-07T11:40:12.790+0000)

the AP changes wont do much except make the current meta AP's even more cancer. Hope you enjoy Azir Malzahar Katarina Akali Xerath Kassadin Orianna Vladimir Veigar because their about to get stronger and anyone that's not them is still going to be overshadowed.

Oh hey! It's my favorite commenting level 11 account. I see we are complaining about some mid lane champs. Some deserved, such as the second ban rate champ vlad.. but hmmm, something is missing. Of course you would never just... leave out the top ban rate champ would you? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and we will just say you accidentally forgot this champion Zoe in your list

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Oh hey! It's my favorite commenting level 11 account. I see we are complaining about some mid lane champs. Some deserved, such as the second ban rate champ vlad.. but hmmm, something is missing. Of course you would never just... leave out the top ban rate champ would you? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and we will just say you accidentally forgot this champion Zoe in your list

Didn't include Zoe because unlike you lot of nubs that complain about her, I know how to dumpster her and how to dodge skill shots and play smart. She is easy to trash in lane and easy enough to deal with in team fights if you have an assassin or diver on your team. The only ones losing to her are people that don't know how to dodge a skill shot or who fuck up and make a mistake. The only other time she is an issue is if some dumbass feeds her, but everyone is an issue when fed.

She is telegraphed, slow and has no escape and only has her Q to do most of her damage with. She might be a poorly thought out champ, but she isn't OP as so many of you noobs like to say and complain about because you don't know how to DODGE A DAMN SKILL SHOT, especially her E. If you get hit by that thing you are either melee range or you have the slowest reflexes imaginable. [fiora-cool]

Illivashi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-07T20:25:11.822+0000)

Didn't include Zoe because unlike you lot of nubs that complain about her, I know how to dumpster her and how to dodge skill shots and play smart. She is easy to trash in lane and easy enough to deal with in team fights if you have an assassin or diver on your team. The only ones losing to her are people that don't know how to dodge a skill shot or who fuck up and make a mistake. The only other time she is an issue is if some dumbass feeds her, but everyone is an issue when fed.

She is telegraphed, slow and has no escape and only has her Q to do most of her damage with. She might be a poorly thought out champ, but she isn't OP as so many of you noobs like to say and complain about because you don't know how to DODGE A DAMN SKILL SHOT, especially her E. If you get hit by that thing you are either melee range or you have the slowest reflexes imaginable. [fiora-cool]

I do love your responses. If I ever need to feel a sense of despair at the stupidity of my fellow human beings, I can just read your comments. As far as:

because unlike you lot of nubs that complain about her, I know how to dumpster her and how to dodge skill shots and play smart.

Well the funny thing about that, is you see... na.op.gg stats only take into account plat and higher for win rates, pick rates, and ban rates. And yet, the top... what, 8% of players have apparently marked Zoe as a number 1 ban worthy champ for several patches now. So the idea that you are the mastermind and that these diamond players are all idiots, well it doesn't play out because you are hiding behind a level 11 account, instead of on a nice prominent challenger account. Meaning you are at best... Silver 5. In said elo, most players can't even land a skill shot, so no wonder you would have such an easy time dodging it. Hell you don't even have to juke, if you stand still the enemy player will still probably miss lmfao.

If you get hit by that thing you are either melee range or you have the slowest reflexes imaginable.

Uh oh, you got me. Shit, where did I go wrong trying to get into melee range as a melee champion. Sigh I have to rethink my whole play style now. You realize that even if you are hiding being minions Zoe could just ult next to you, E, go back, Q you. Right? Now, I know I know... Silver 5 Zoe players never got that far in their line of thinking. Also

but she isn't OP as so many of you noobs like to say and complain about because you don't know how to DODGE A DAMN SKILL SHOT

Ya, if only her combo wasn't able to one shot while being on an under 8 second cd, if only we would perfectly dodge every skill shot which could come from outside of vision etc. Pfft, I'm sorry I have honestly busted out laughing about 15 times by this point typing this out. I typed a lot of these segments with more sarcasm, but then rewrote them because I'm worried you wouldn't be able to tell.

I look forward to seeing you on your next idiotic post, my lovely level 11 account.

[vlad-salute]

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

I do love your responses. If I ever need to feel a sense of despair at the stupidity of my fellow human beings, I can just read your comments. As far as:

Well the funny thing about that, is you see... na.op.gg stats only take into account plat and higher for win rates, pick rates, and ban rates. And yet, the top... what, 8% of players have apparently marked Zoe as a number 1 ban worthy champ for several patches now. So the idea that you are the mastermind and that these diamond players are all idiots, well it doesn't play out because you are hiding behind a level 11 account, instead of on a nice prominent challenger account. Meaning you are at best... Silver 5. In said elo, most players can't even land a skill shot, so no wonder you would have such an easy time dodging it. Hell you don't even have to juke, if you stand still the enemy player will still probably miss lmfao.

Uh oh, you got me. Shit, where did I go wrong trying to get into melee range as a melee champion. Sigh I have to rethink my whole play style now. You realize that even if you are hiding being minions Zoe could just ult next to you, E, go back, Q you. Right? Now, I know I know... Silver 5 Zoe players never got that far in their line of thinking. Also

Ya, if only her combo wasn't able to one shot while being on an under 8 second cd, if only we would perfectly dodge every skill shot which could come from outside of vision etc. Pfft, I'm sorry I have honestly busted out laughing about 15 times by this point typing this out. I typed a lot of these segments with more sarcasm, but then rewrote them because I'm worried you wouldn't be able to tell.

I look forward to seeing you on your next idiotic post, my lovely level 11 account.

[vlad-salute]

Oi, here we go.

I don't really care of you opinions on me in the slightest. So you are just wasting you time.

High level players are not immune to hate filled biased too and are just as prone to learning mistakes as everyone else. Having a little colored badge does not make them god. Add to the fact that she is relatively new and it generally takes the community a good 2 months or more to figure out a champ and how to play against them (unless they are released very weak like ornn was)

if your going to take the "but my melee route". That is a pretty weak argument in context of Zoe. You bait out her E or wait until she uses and then jump on and punish her ass because her E cooldown is long enough to punish while its down. You do the same thing against any other ranged champ that has a stun or disable when you are a melee champ

Her combo only one shots IF, you build zero damn MR. If you are squishy and have not built MR against the burst mage? Then you deserve to go pop. Really the only ones regularly complain are either marksmen players (big surprise) or other mage players who don't build a damn item 3102 and play around her E cooldown and her telegraphed attacks.

Also personal attacks and attempts at "shaming" will get you nowhere with me. You and the others that incessantly complain have yet to actually present a sound argument or really even counter my arguments beyond "shut up your stupid and wrong because I say so". Now I could very well give you the third degree on how dumb you all are, but I let your non arguments and words do it for me. I don't really care for the little down vote mob, because upvotes and downvotes are meaningless. People that are right get down voted all the time and those that are wrong get upvoted because "popular opinion". < ----Something being popular opinion btw doesn't mean something is right; just that is a popular OPINION. [sg-ezreal]

Illivashi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-08T06:49:27.062+0000)

Oi, here we go.

I don't really care of you opinions on me in the slightest. So you are just wasting you time.

High level players are not immune to hate filled biased too and are just as prone to learning mistakes as everyone else. Having a little colored badge does not make them god. Add to the fact that she is relatively new and it generally takes the community a good 2 months or more to figure out a champ and how to play against them (unless they are released very weak like ornn was)

if your going to take the "but my melee route". That is a pretty weak argument in context of Zoe. You bait out her E or wait until she uses and then jump on and punish her ass because her E cooldown is long enough to punish while its down. You do the same thing against any other ranged champ that has a stun or disable when you are a melee champ

Her combo only one shots IF, you build zero damn MR. If you are squishy and have not built MR against the burst mage? Then you deserve to go pop. Really the only ones regularly complain are either marksmen players (big surprise) or other mage players who don't build a damn item 3102 and play around her E cooldown and her telegraphed attacks.

Also personal attacks and attempts at "shaming" will get you nowhere with me. You and the others that incessantly complain have yet to actually present a sound argument or really even counter my arguments beyond "shut up your stupid and wrong because I say so". Now I could very well give you the third degree on how dumb you all are, but I let your non arguments and words do it for me. I don't really care for the little down vote mob, because upvotes and downvotes are meaningless. People that are right get down voted all the time and those that are wrong get upvoted because "popular opinion". < ----Something being popular opinion btw doesn't mean something is right; just that is a popular OPINION. [sg-ezreal]

Oh my dear level 11 account, I don't respond because I believe you give a shit what I think, I do it because you are now half of my enjoyment with lol forums. I get a good laugh out of your comments. For instance, the way you think your opinion on a champion matters because you can beat her in an elo where people can't even land skill shots, and therefore preach that we should just learn to dodge. Great for laughs. Also that part about not talking about any of your "points." Which points did you make? That we should all learn to dodge skill shots? Get to an elo where people actually land them and we can look at that more seriously. The part where her e is hard to land? Over the wall mechanics with vision or even just using portal... makes it not that hard to land, kinda goes back to the whole... elo and landing skill shots. And its not just marksmen and adcs who hate zoe. Luckily, i can always count on midlnaers to permaban her until she is gutted. So when you tell me to respond to your points I don't know what the fuck your referring to lmfao. Also, sure new champs get banned out. But when a champion is 90% br on release and 70% ban rate 2 nerds later. Hmmmm makes you wonder.

Edit: oops.. didn't respond to your "point" about banshee veils shield. Well that works for the first return to lane since buying it. Good thing Zoe has a nice ranged poke on a 8 second cd. Easily drop shield once and you can make sure it never goes back up again... unless the person wants to leave lane for 40 seconds... assuming your in an elo which can... actually hit skill shots >.> ...

Illivashi3 votes

{quoted}

Oh my dear level 11 account, I don't respond because I believe you give a shit what I think, I do it because you are now half of my enjoyment with lol forums. I get a good laugh out of your comments. For instance, the way you think your opinion on a champion matters because you can beat her in an elo where people can't even land skill shots, and therefore preach that we should just learn to dodge. Great for laughs. Also that part about not talking about any of your "points." Which points did you make? That we should all learn to dodge skill shots? Get to an elo where people actually land them and we can look at that more seriously. The part where her e is hard to land? Over the wall mechanics with vision or even just using portal... makes it not that hard to land, kinda goes back to the whole... elo and landing skill shots. And its not just marksmen and adcs who hate zoe. Luckily, i can always count on midlnaers to permaban her until she is gutted. So when you tell me to respond to your points I don't know what the fuck your referring to lmfao. Also, sure new champs get banned out. But when a champion is 90% br on release and 70% ban rate 2 nerds later. Hmmmm makes you wonder

Edit: oops.. didn't respond to your "point" about banshee veils shield. Well that works for the first return to lane since buying it. Good thing Zoe has a nice ranged poke on a 8 second cd. Easily drop shield once and you can make sure it never goes back up again... unless the person wants to leave lane for 40 seconds... assuming your in an elo which can... actually hit skill shots >.> ...

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Oh my dear level 11 account, I don't respond because I believe you give a shit what I think, I do it because you are now half of my enjoyment with lol forums. I get a good laugh out of your comments. For instance, the way you think your opinion on a champion matters because you can beat her in an elo where people can't even land skill shots, and therefore preach that we should just learn to dodge. Great for laughs. Also that part about not talking about any of your "points." Which points did you make? That we should all learn to dodge skill shots? Get to an elo where people actually land them and we can look at that more seriously. The part where her e is hard to land? Over the wall mechanics with vision or even just using portal... makes it not that hard to land, kinda goes back to the whole... elo and landing skill shots. And its not just marksmen and adcs who hate zoe. Luckily, i can always count on midlnaers to permaban her until she is gutted. So when you tell me to respond to your points I don't know what the fuck your referring to lmfao. Also, sure new champs get banned out. But when a champion is 90% br on release and 70% ban rate 2 nerds later. Hmmmm makes you wonder.

Edit: oops.. didn't respond to your "point" about banshee veils shield. Well that works for the first return to lane since buying it. Good thing Zoe has a nice ranged poke on a 8 second cd. Easily drop shield once and you can make sure it never goes back up again... unless the person wants to leave lane for 40 seconds... assuming your in an elo which can... actually hit skill shots >.> ...

Being facetious with me isn't going to work either my dear forum poster.

And yes, a little bit of research on most of who is complaining about her shows it is marksmen players complaining and a few bad mids. I can OPgg too.

Release ban rate is irrelevant. LoL is populated most by drooling idiots that watch "this is OP" click baity videos and get the opinions of a champs state off that and then become predisposition to like or dislike them off that. Its not far off to say LoL players act as a hive mind when it comes to screaming for nerfs. I severely doubt majority on here have played against her 20 times each, hell I will go as far as to say 10 times each which isn't enough games to actually learn how to play against a complex champ.

The rest can be summarized up into one phrase" "Learn to dodge a skill shot and get good".

Calling attention to my alts account lvl and making vague guess at my rank or elo does your own "arguments" injustice because it makes you appear as if you don't have one and are lynch pinning your stuff on level or rank shaming. <-- Both of which are a flawed thing to base an argument off of.

You aren't going to win this little argument. You might as well quit. [vayne-pose]

Illivashi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-08T08:21:44.579+0000)

Being facetious with me isn't going to work either my dear forum poster.

And yes, a little bit of research on most of who is complaining about her shows it is marksmen players complaining and a few bad mids. I can OPgg too.

Release ban rate is irrelevant. LoL is populated most by drooling idiots that watch "this is OP" click baity videos and get the opinions of a champs state off that and then become predisposition to like or dislike them off that. Its not far off to say LoL players act as a hive mind when it comes to screaming for nerfs. I severely doubt majority on here have played against her 20 times each, hell I will go as far as to say 10 times each which isn't enough games to actually learn how to play against a complex champ.

The rest can be summarized up into one phrase" "Learn to dodge a skill shot and get good".

Calling attention to my alts account lvl and making vague guess at my rank or elo does your own "arguments" injustice because it makes you appear as if you don't have one and are lynch pinning your stuff on level or rank shaming. <-- Both of which are a flawed thing to base an argument off of.

You aren't going to win this little argument. You might as well quit. [vayne-pose]

Ooh I was a little busy so I was worried I would have to put thought into this response. Luckily I don't. For starters, new champs like camille and ornn stopped being permabanned after the first nerfed, and stopped being banned at all after the second nerf, dropping to like 10% ban rate at most. Zoe maintains 70% after 2 nerfs, speaks for itself. No more commentary from me needed.

The rest can be summarized up into one phrase" "Learn to dodge a skill shot and get good".

Calling attention to my alts account lvl and making vague guess at my rank or elo does your own "arguments" injustice because it makes you appear as if you don't have one and are lynch pinning your stuff on level or rank shaming. <-- Both of which are a flawed thing to base an argument off of.

At this I can just go back to giggling because you say completely trivial and meaningless point such as "learn to dodge a skill shot and get good" because you see, by saying get good and learn to dodge you are already bringing your elo into this. Its honestly hilarious and sad that you don't understand that. You are like a bronze kid in twitch chat watching the LCS and saying "LUL the fuck are these pros doing, just dodge zoe's abilities like I do," even tho if you were put in a gold game, not even the pros game, just a gold game, you would be 0/15 vs a Zoe during the laning phase itself and your team mates wouldn't be able to spam yes hard enough for ff @ 15 min.

Your argument of we should all learn to dodge, has no backbone in itself. You are actually kind of a hilarious hypocrite in regards to not actually having an argument. Your argument could only be supported on a premise that you are in an elo where people can actually land skill shots and that you are having the time of your life dodging them because they are that easy. But its obvious that you can't say that and can't talk down to the top 8% of players permabanning zoe, because once again you are on a level 11 account instead of on a diamond or masters account while on forums. You only hide behind an alt account if you are worried that people can dismiss your whole argument because of how low your elo is (so Bronze V - Silver V range), which people definitely can, should, and are doing towards you.

It's that simple.

As always, I look forward to your next comment!

Edit: Also, silly me, can't leave points unaddressed. In regards to who is complaining about Zoe vs who is banning her, the normal etiquette of ban phase is you normally are responsible for shit in your lane (hence why mid laners might ban her more lol). However, if mid doesn't, adc will. If both are just suicidal then top jg and support will normally step in if they haven't already locked in a champ to ban.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Ooh I was a little busy so I was worried I would have to put thought into this response. Luckily I don't. For starters, new champs like camille and ornn stopped being permabanned after the first nerfed, and stopped being banned at all after the second nerf, dropping to like 10% ban rate at most. Zoe maintains 70% after 2 nerfs, speaks for itself. No more commentary from me needed.

At this I can just go back to giggling because you say completely trivial and meaningless point such as "learn to dodge a skill shot and get good" because you see, by saying get good and learn to dodge you are already bringing your elo into this. Its honestly hilarious and sad that you don't understand that. You are like a bronze kid in twitch chat watching the LCS and saying "LUL the fuck are these pros doing, just dodge zoe's abilities like I do," even tho if you were put in a gold game, not even the pros game, just a gold game, you would be 0/15 vs a Zoe during the laning phase itself and your team mates wouldn't be able to spam yes hard enough for ff @ 15 min.

Your argument of we should all learn to dodge, has no backbone in itself. You are actually kind of a hilarious hypocrite in regards to not actually having an argument. Your argument could only be supported on a premise that you are in an elo where people can actually land skill shots and that you are having the time of your life dodging them because they are that easy. But its obvious that you can't say that and can't talk down to the top 8% of players permabanning zoe, because once again you are on a level 11 account instead of on a diamond or masters account while on forums. You only hide behind an alt account if you are worried that people can dismiss your whole argument because of how low your elo is (so Bronze V - Silver V range), which people definitely can, should, and are doing towards you.

It's that simple.

As always, I look forward to your next comment!

Edit: Also, silly me, can't leave points unaddressed. In regards to who is complaining about Zoe vs who is banning her, the normal etiquette of ban phase is you normally are responsible for shit in your lane (hence why mid laners might ban her more lol). However, if mid doesn't, adc will. If both are just suicidal then top jg and support will normally step in if they haven't already locked in a champ to ban.

You are going to need to bait harder if your looking to trigger me sonny Jim.

Also this is just pathetic, is this seriously the best you can come up with? If your not going to actually present a decent argument I am not going to bother putting more effort in then: "Learn to dodge s skill shot and stop crying noob and git gud." <---Pretty much summarizes my response nicely. [zombie-brand-clap]

Illivashi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=0009000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-09T14:23:09.381+0000)

You are going to need to bait harder if your looking to trigger me sonny Jim.

Also this is just pathetic, is this seriously the best you can come up with? If your not going to actually present a decent argument I am not going to bother putting more effort in then: "Learn to dodge s skill shot and stop crying noob and git gud." <---Pretty much summarizes my response nicely. [zombie-brand-clap]

Not even trying to trigger you lol, At this point it's an experiment to see if you can show a hypocrite that they are being a hypocrite (I'm very interested to find out). I need to present a decent argument? Lol you haven't presented a decent argument in the last 3 days worth of comments, why should I have to try harder? My (correct) argument can be summarized by the differences in The following scenarios.

Bronze kid (such as yourself) crying about a champion on forums, a diamond player responds that the champion isn't an issue in high Elo because the champion is countered by doing x y z or play laning phase passively to deal with it.

Now we look at scenario number 2, plats diamonds and higher complain about a champion and permaban (78% ban rate now after 2 nerfs lol) and a bronze kid says "your dodging mechanics are trash lol. just need to improve your dodging mechanics to be as good as mine. Me! The bronze kid who doesn't understand macro in the slightest and misses point blank skill shots. I am clearly the expert in this matter." It's like a high school student with no training or research going up to space x and saying "you are doing your trajectory models incorrectly. Yours should look more like mine!" (Shows model of squiggly lines drawn with crayon)

The fact that you can't even understand that honestly makes this experiment alot more entertaining for me.

(Used phone so autocorrect is a bitch)

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Not even trying to trigger you lol, At this point it's an experiment to see if you can show a hypocrite that they are being a hypocrite (I'm very interested to find out). I need to present a decent argument? Lol you haven't presented a decent argument in the last 3 days worth of comments, why should I have to try harder? My (correct) argument can be summarized by the differences in The following scenarios.

Bronze kid (such as yourself) crying about a champion on forums, a diamond player responds that the champion isn't an issue in high Elo because the champion is countered by doing x y z or play laning phase passively to deal with it.

Now we look at scenario number 2, plats diamonds and higher complain about a champion and permaban (78% ban rate now after 2 nerfs lol) and a bronze kid says "your dodging mechanics are trash lol. just need to improve your dodging mechanics to be as good as mine. Me! The bronze kid who doesn't understand macro in the slightest and misses point blank skill shots. I am clearly the expert in this matter." It's like a high school student with no training or research going up to space x and saying "you are doing your trajectory models incorrectly. Yours should look more like mine!" (Shows model of squiggly lines drawn with crayon)

The fact that you can't even understand that honestly makes this experiment alot more entertaining for me.

(Used phone so autocorrect is a bitch)

Listen chum, I have already dunked you and everyone else in here with facts and corrections about Zoe, and even when as far as to say how to win against her, yet you refuse to learn and apply it because its hard so you keep whining about her. nothing more i can say and repeating myself is a waste of my time. So again, short and sweet. Learn to dodge a skill shot [vlad-salute]

Illivashi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=000900000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-09T19:39:24.154+0000)

Listen chum, I have already dunked you and everyone else in here with facts and corrections about Zoe, and even when as far as to say how to win against her, yet you refuse to learn and apply it because its hard so you keep whining about her. nothing more i can say and repeating myself is a waste of my time. So again, short and sweet. Learn to dodge a skill shot [vlad-salute]

Link a single fact you posted lmfao.

Edit: actually, just don't bother. My experiment for giggles doesn't have room for explaining what facts are. So I'll end this experiment just as short and sweet: "your opinion is worthless, enjoy bronze"

Illivashi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uOk9wc6f,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-10T08:46:48.387+0000)

Go read everyone of my post in this thread. not coming to make a special post with all of it just because you are to lazy to read and essentially all of it can be summarized easily: "Stop crying, git gud, learn to dodge a skill shot, learn to build MR, and stop banning her so you can learn how to beat her." [sg-ezreal]

I'm sorry, the experiment is over as shown by our summaries. I no longer have any interest in hearing anything from a bronze player. Nor do I desire to teach you what facts are.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Trampa4 votes

"Oh, but this is just the boards saying it and it's such a small amou-" NO! I can't stand these untouched issues, and it's not just the boards. I don't know how Riot can leave all of these terrible things you mentioned when the negativity created by them is being voiced on several platforms. Look at Hashinshin for example, I hate that guy and don't find him entertaining whatsoever, but man, he hit a lot of things spot on in his latest rant. Why can't Riot just change things, and address the issues with the balance team? There are NUMEROUS amounts of complaints about their decisions, so why won't they reevaluate and inform us on this. We are the ones that their decisions impact. We are the ones who fuel this game / company. Listen to us please, the game is becoming less and less fun, and the fact that valid, organized, and polite suggestions are being ignored is seriously offsetting. I love this game, but come on Riot, this just doesn't make sense.

Thracia1 votes

In the past they have made sweeping changes they regretted, they do changes incrementally, they don't just want to kill champs/items. Like there have been small Zoe nerfs for several patches now, they want to nerf her but don't want to overnerf her. Also champs have intended uses, that is why champs have playstyles, Zoe is meant to be able to 1 shot squishies (yes she can to some tanks too rn). Like why would they just gut a champ because they were to strong? Over time you get them to where they should be without making them unplayable.

Trampa5 votes

{quoted}

In the past they have made sweeping changes they regretted, they do changes incrementally, they don't just want to kill champs/items. Like there have been small Zoe nerfs for several patches now, they want to nerf her but don't want to overnerf her. Also champs have intended uses, that is why champs have playstyles, Zoe is meant to be able to 1 shot squishies (yes she can to some tanks too rn). Like why would they just gut a champ because they were to strong? Over time you get them to where they should be without making them unplayable.

Nerfing Zoe's Q damage isn't killing her. Just because she wouldn't be able to 1 shot anymore doesn't mean she's dead. Balance should be fair and even, not just the flavour of the month on who can do the most damage with the least amount of effort. Her 'ability' to do so doesn't make sense, as it's not really fair or logically in an arguably skill-oriented game considering she is far too rewarding for the little skill needed to 1 shot someone. PS nerf shouldn't equal gutting them. The collective nerfs to her still aren't much good - they simply are hitting the wrong spots. Ornn is a great example of this same mistake being made with his unstoppable effect being removed.

Regardless, balance was just part of my post and I'm not sure why your response turned into talking about zoe lol. The rest of the OP reflects a lot of other issues that need to be addressed. Damage, snowballing, stopwatches, etc.

Thracia1 votes

{quoted}

Nerfing Zoe's Q damage isn't killing her. Just because she wouldn't be able to 1 shot anymore doesn't mean she's dead. Balance should be fair and even, not just the flavour of the month on who can do the most damage with the least amount of effort. Her 'ability' to do so doesn't make sense, as it's not really fair or logically in an arguably skill-oriented game considering she is far too rewarding for the little skill needed to 1 shot someone. PS nerf shouldn't equal gutting them. The collective nerfs to her still aren't much good - they simply are hitting the wrong spots. Ornn is a great example of this same mistake being made with his unstoppable effect being removed.

Regardless, balance was just part of my post and I'm not sure why your response turned into talking about zoe lol. The rest of the OP reflects a lot of other issues that need to be addressed. Damage, snowballing, stopwatches, etc.

I was using Zoe as an example of somebody who was a bit overtuned and tons of people complained about but they didn't want to gut. She is meant to be able to one shot you, just like Zed, Talon or a riven who gets her full combo off. Also snowballing should be super strong. In what way are stopwatches broken?? If u take it you lose out on a bunch of damage taking inspiration secondary. It has a pretty large opportunity cost.

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