Why did Riot give morde more complexity,too much counterplay,polarized gameplay,and call it healthy?

Mortekaiser··48 votes·4,068 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKe_IMl92sg

(some of) my thoughts on the matter cover :25 - :45 seconds

here's some context: I was a huge fan of the old morde kit (pre-rework), and I loved how simple it was. I mained it for half of season 4 and from the start of season 5 to now. I have played 830 games of old mordekaiser from when the new match history was launched (for however that goes back).

No matter how much people bitch and moan about how morde was before, he had been played with and against for so long people could deal with his powerspikes very well. Pre-rework, Morde sat at around 50-51% winrate across all elos. He obviously had his strengths, but wasn't so powerful to just outright win every game he ever played. He had a niche, and while he didn't have the playrate that thresh, vayne, or leona have, he had his loyal mains who played him, as well as people who played him whenever he had a very favorable matchup.

Fast forward to now, and we have the current mess. Mordekaiser, who used to be simple, straightforward, and a champion based almost entirely on positioning instead of making immensely flashy plays, is now a champion with a lot more gimmicks, more arbitrary complexity, ramp up time on the one ability that most of his power budget is invested in, and less options in solo laning altogether.

Why?

Why does he need to be such a drastically different champion than he was before?

What makes altering his Q, a strong ability in its own rights, into a ramp up? Morde's old Q was a solid ability in a solo lane, and it could be maxed first in a top lane environment quite comfortably. It gave him a source of good damage that could be accessed instantly and punish a player for being isolated from their minion wave if they chose to fight Morde. It wasn't an instagib level of damage (although it could be built that way with lichbane), but it was certainly enough to make opponents think twice about cockily walking up to him.

Side note: Morde was a champ that punished or rewarded positioning. That alone was something that held him back from just dominating everything. If he got caught out during a bad extension and the opposing laner was someone who could dish out consistent damage to him while CCing him (a lot of champs can do this relatively easily), Morde was dead.

What makes altering his W, a strong ability in its own rights, into an ability locked only for botlane morde who has a support? Morde's W before the rework was a perfectly fine ability, and gave him some strong situational mobility in a solo lane. It was strong enough to possibly max first (this was seen in an LCS game where morde was played in), but overall was strong enough with one point in it to save morde's life every now and then.

What makes altering his E, again, a strong ability in its own rights, into a shadow of its former self? On a champ that absolutely needs waveclear due to lacking mobility and CC? And keeping the health costs the same? Why on earth should anyone max E until last now? The health costs are large for an early max, and morde doesn't build spellvamp anymore.

Why does morde's ult become unavailable when a dragon ghost is captured? A dragon ghost that is mostly ignorable during teamfights that aren't over the first dragon and only makes morde situationally strong? Morde's ult used to be a simple DoT and the rest of his kit was strong enough that it didn't need to have such a situational gimmick attached to it. If morde's team is strong enough to take dragon and get that dragon ghost, then they were probably going to get a tower off of that anyway. Even if not, why does the rest of morde's kit have to be balanced around it? The dragon ghost is purely a "win more" mechanic, nothing more.

How is being situationally powerful, with the requirements of needing a support and getting the dragon ghost, healthy gameplay?

How is being even stronger against melee champs, while being even weaker against ranged champions that can kite, healthy gameplay?

Before the rework, while morde did have bad matchups, he had options to deal with those matchups. There were a few matchups he would win outright, a lot of matchups that were skill based, and some matchups he lost very hard. Such is the way with all champions in this game. How is that considered unhealthy, when all champions are subject to that? Were Morde matchups only considered in a vacuum, where the only factors were Morde and his lane opponent? The inherent problem with that is that morde pushed waves naturally, so he would leave himself vulnerable to ganks, which, newsflash, happens all the time in every match ever. That is one of the biggest weaknesses old morde had.

So, to wrap up, a simple champion with clear strengths and weaknesses is subject to unnecessary change and alienates an entire group of players who were mains of a champion, all for the sake of making him situationally stronger, and giving him "win more" mechanics instead of sticking to a simple, strong brawler?

I'm sorry, but just because morde can be situationally strong, does not make him a strong champion overall.

48 Comments

Big Lincoln19 votes

dont forget that an already vulnerable champion got an even weaker early game

this rework is terribly thought through, i hope we can get major changes to it if not a full revert

Jbels13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a1KEPh3W,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-22T13:43:40.938+0000)

dont forget that an already vulnerable champion got an even weaker early game

this rework is terribly thought through, i hope we can get major changes to it if not a full revert

I sincerely hope this becomes the first rework to hit live and get reverted within the next 2 patches

Rew7111 votes

So many ideas on the PBE boards, no red has been seen. Unlike our new friend who brought us insight on the other three and communicated with "Question Threads" and not like other reds that just comment on "Look at this Funny Post" threads, I don't even see much on the PBE even though it would be fantastic to see more.

Estyb2 votes

If there's anything we learned, Riot never reverts. This rework is fucking awful though. It completely destroys old mordekaiser as a champion for some mad scientist level experiment. His whole kit just seems like a bunch of random shit tacked together with 0 cohesion. He's even more feast/famine than he used to be...and entire kit is supposed to be balanced around always having an EXP lead AND he needs an ally nearby to be useful?

This current iteration of Mordekaiser completely forces him into bot lane because no matter how you change him, as long as the two above mechanics stay, allowing him to be played out of bot lane will make him insanely overpowered in bot lane, while keeping him balanced bot lane makes solo laning impossible.

hobomann21 votes

honestly his early game now is poppy-levels of bad

Jbels11 votes

They frontloaded all of the power in his kit into his Q, so yes, he is situationally stronger. How often are you going to get into a situation where you can get all 3 procs of Q out? That depends, how stupid is your lane opponent? Oh fuck, he's decent? What champion is he playing? Oh shit, he's not playing Morde, too? Chances are he's got CC, or Mobility. Or both. Good thing you're a champion who's only threatening when you can get to that third stri- oh wait YOU CAN'T. Uhg...fuck CertainlyT...just fuck him...why did solo-lane Morde have to die for his stupid experimental concept?

bartuc663 votes

The thing that I find really messed up though, is that the new "power-loaded" third strike of Q is not that much stronger than the old Q. The Q damage splits his hit into both physical and magical compared to Old Morde's Q of converting the entire hit into magical damage. This means that due to the way damage negation works part of his Q gets reduced by armor and the rest gets reduced by magic resist. So in order for the full damage to go through, a Morde would need to build both non-negligible amounts of armor and magic penentration. Now if a player decides to not "care" about the physical part of Morde's Q, his third strike is essentially at the same power level as the Multi-hit portion of Mordekaiser's old Q!

TLDR: CertainlyT essentially took the mulit-hit portion of Mordekaiser's old Q and converted into a single-target power strike. For this "change," Mordekaiser's kit took various nerfs in order to "balance" him out. This re-work was very creative indeed. /s

iTams6 votes

CertainlyT. That's all you need to know.

ArkenStorm4 votes

Two things that would make this rework acceptable:

  1. Make w castable on self/minions.
  2. Still be able to use ult while controlling dragon, if the cursed enemy dies, their ghost replaces dragon ghost.

Those two alone would make this "acceptable," but not necessarily good.

Count Zubat4 votes

The worst part of this rework is how all Morde's power is stored within his Q ability. Like, Morde now is a guy with AOE shield that needs ally to be used, completely useless poke ability and completely broken melee ability. The whole philosophy of Morde now is to hit 3rd Q - that's Morde in nutshell, his Q. Before, he was quite complicated champ. While his abilities where very simple, he had to worry about a lot of things: you had to use your abilities intelligently, manage to poke your enemy and maintain your shield while not pushing the lane too much (so you don't get ganked). There was a lot of depth - good positioning, warding, even some predictioning, like is your opponent going to facecheck that brush you are waiting in to burst someone? For me,it was one of the funniest part of old Morde: walking into some brush, and then, just wait: is he gonna enter it? Come any close to it? Ok, he entered my brush, let's do this : R-Q-E. And even when Morde was ahead, he could be shut down, because he was squishy and burstable when he didn't have his shield charged. Right now, his abilities are complicated, but his whole playstyle revolves only around his 3rd Q. You don't have to worry about lane being pushed too much. When somebody engages you, just activate your Q and smack them... The whole rework took the essence of Morde while making his kit (ekhem, I mean, his Q) super punishing against poorly positioned enemies. Also, if his ahead, he's gonna wreck everybody and win game, because he basically needs only 2 damaging items to kill somebody, then he just builds tank so it's super hard to kill him. It's kinda a shame that this rework took such a direction. I expected something better :/

Saianna4 votes

OP, do you know what's the difference between Riot and lets say... you?

You've played pre-reworked Morde 830~times more than all Rioters combined.

L Rayquaza4 votes

Do I like the idea of trying to make a bot lane bruiser? Hell yes, the problem is Mordekaiser already had a solid identity, I feel if they did this with a new champ people would love it

Prospector Pete3 votes

I wish Riot would stop making everyone so complicated.

Jbels1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a1KEPh3W,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-22T14:03:31.026+0000)

I wish Riot would stop making everyone so complicated.

They didn't make Morde more complicated, he's still just as easy to read as he was before

VardenSalad3 votes

I will now attempt to sum up Riot's reasoning for reworking this champion:

This is a low playrate champion. We know better than you. Fuck you.

See also: Skarner

Vhalthoria3 votes

I'm a top laner. Does that means I can use Janna as a bruiser or should I "adapt" to her kit for top? My main champion got melted to fit other roles while taking him away from the lanes he was originally meant to be and actually did great in them.

You guys need to stop repeating the "adapt to the chances" bullshit because it obviously doesn't apply here. We just got our champion taken away from us in a very experimental and dick move I would say.

cStryker2 votes

ok I just played morde now in Aram for the first time... First: Why would you change a perfectly fine little champion into such a .... wow I am so mad I better not write my feelings right now Second: What is he now? A useless piece of shit that buffs someone with W? Third: his e, what is that? A graphical effect? Because thats all it is, and it fits so perfectly with his dmg now, a silent fart that tickles the opponent Forth: his shield... it is literally just gone, in ms... no chance to jump into a tf and own away, or even initiate (as I did in Aram many times before)

Cg to the one who tought that he needs any change (because in no way was he in need of a stupid rework that literally nerfs his whole identity into a stupid buffbot with 0 fun playing') now he needs only one thing a refund option because this useless piece of junk is the opposite of fun and identity

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Bruh the new morde aint even bad bot lol

http://champion.gg/champion/Mordekaiser/ADC

Mortekaiser2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lane Cancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a1KEPh3W,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-08-22T20:18:49.151+0000)

Bruh the new morde aint even bad bot lol

http://champion.gg/champion/Mordekaiser/ADC

mordekaiser may not be "bad" botlane, but he requires too much to fall into place for him to work properly (he basically needs a tanky support or he will be completely ineffective, unlike most adcs who can work with almost any support to some degree)

and I'm not arguing if morde may be "bad" botlane (although his current winrate isn't really giving me lots of hope), I'm asking why it was necessary to change a simple champion into the monstrosity he is now?

Rinky Dinky3 votes

A 57% winrate botlane isn't giving you hope friend?

What?

I agree his other lanes are total shit now, but if the rework's purpose was to shift him into botlane, it beyond succeeded.

He does synergize well with tanky supports, but also is fine with others.

Healers give him sustain to farm.

Some give him shields to farm.

Some set shit up from afar.

He is just as pro/con with certain supports like any other adc.

If he was completely and totally reliant on only specific situations, he wouldn't be sporting a 57-56% winrate.

If anything, I expect them to nerf him, and possibly shift some power back into his solo lanes.

Big Lincoln3 votes

if I grabbed literally any CC heavy support, I could kill anyone regardless of what ADC I'm playing

And unlike Mordekaiser, I wouldn't need an objective that respawns every 7 minutes in order to take a tower safely

Rinky Dinky2 votes

If that was the case, he wouldn't win 57% of his games in plat+ :D

Big Lincoln4 votes

that doesn't really do anything about what you give up for not having an ADC

the reason it works is because his weaknesses are mitigated with a heavy CC support, which makes him a pretty damn good lane bully in lanes who aren't intentionally counterpicking him, and he has a strong mid-game right now, plus dragon ghost is the usual CertainlyT cancer guarantee we've come to expect

Vhalthoria3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a1KEPh3W,comment-id=0009000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-22T21:25:14.019+0000)

that doesn't really do anything about what you give up for not having an ADC

the reason it works is because his weaknesses are mitigated with a heavy CC support, which makes him a pretty damn good lane bully in lanes who aren't intentionally counterpicking him, and he has a strong mid-game right now, plus dragon ghost is the usual CertainlyT cancer guarantee we've come to expect

Yeah, that's just it.

doombotMECHA1 votes

you don't have to give up an adc. versus some bruiser tops (or some new juggernauts) some adcs work rather well. vayne is vayne, quinn has a blind and nice escapes, and kalista is immune to most tops without a ranged stun. kalista top also allows her to bond with the jung and let malphite ult twice, for example.

Doctor Dyment2 votes

cough Um... heh. I'e played as/with the new Mordekaiser and so far, he seems okay. I mean, sure his power has shifted to situationally rather than all around and his early game has turned into basically a complete train wreck if you die once, but I still think he's fine. Yeah he needs number tweaks, and some buffs/nerfs to his abilities, but that'll happen longer down the road. Not to be COMPLETELY defeatist here, but writing an overly long and complicated essay on why Mordekaiser was in an okay spot before, but thanks to an over indulged rework he has turned into the situational monster rather than an okay all-rounder won't really solve anything. Riot made a rework. They teased it, talked about it, and released it. And it won't change. Numbers, sure. But Mordekaiser will (at least for the time being) be stuck in the spot that he is in now with his new found abilities. You might as well try and adapt to the changing environment, instead of standing stubborn while the tidal wave of change smashes over you. A fool will stand and fight a battle he cannot win. But a smart man will instead, go along with the things that are happening, and will live to fight another day. Sorry if I gave an opinion here, but I will gracefully accept those downvotes you will inevitably bestow upon me.

Mortekaiser2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a1KEPh3W,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-08-23T00:58:33.598+0000)

cough Um... heh. I'e played as/with the new Mordekaiser and so far, he seems okay. I mean, sure his power has shifted to situationally rather than all around and his early game has turned into basically a complete train wreck if you die once, but I still think he's fine. Yeah he needs number tweaks, and some buffs/nerfs to his abilities, but that'll happen longer down the road. Not to be COMPLETELY defeatist here, but writing an overly long and complicated essay on why Mordekaiser was in an okay spot before, but thanks to an over indulged rework he has turned into the situational monster rather than an okay all-rounder won't really solve anything. Riot made a rework. They teased it, talked about it, and released it. And it won't change. Numbers, sure. But Mordekaiser will (at least for the time being) be stuck in the spot that he is in now with his new found abilities. You might as well try and adapt to the changing environment, instead of standing stubborn while the tidal wave of change smashes over you. A fool will stand and fight a battle he cannot win. But a smart man will instead, go along with the things that are happening, and will live to fight another day. Sorry if I gave an opinion here, but I will gracefully accept those downvotes you will inevitably bestow upon me.

are you saying that not calling riot out on their mistakes and letting them change the meta however they see fit is ok with you?

what if riot decided to turn tryndamere from a melee carry to a ranged dps tank? or caitlyn into an AP caster mage?

do you think it is ok to not express outrage against changing champions that were perfectly fine as is?

Lunar3dge1 votes

Lol, I've played Caitlyn as an AP caster mage :)

Doctor Dyment2 votes

Changing a few abilities on a champion and numbers on unchanged abilities is not the same as changing some like Tryndamere into a ranged DPS tank. You are overreacting to an extreme sense, and I really feel like you are just standing firm instead of trying something new. And, yeah? I'm okay with Riot changing the meta a bit. I feel they have the right to, because SPOILER ALERT this is Riot's game. They program it, they deserve to hold the ability to change the meta as they see fit.

Mortekaiser2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a1KEPh3W,comment-id=000c00000001,timestamp=2015-08-23T05:04:55.114+0000)

Changing a few abilities on a champion and numbers on unchanged abilities is not the same as changing some like Tryndamere into a ranged DPS tank. You are overreacting to an extreme sense, and I really feel like you are just standing firm instead of trying something new. And, yeah? I'm okay with Riot changing the meta a bit. I feel they have the right to, because SPOILER ALERT this is Riot's game. They program it, they deserve to hold the ability to change the meta as they see fit.

uh yeah it is. morde had an amount of ranged abilities that could dish out damage at range, but with his new kit, it has all of its power budget crammed into the situational third Q and the situational buggy as fuck AI in his ult ghosts

standing firm? I have tried the new morde multiple times, and I can honestly say that he is more binary and toxic than ever. if he gets a good, engaging support, and an enemy adc who can't fight him early levels, he can bully the fuck out of his opponents and win. however, if he gets a poor matchup, or just a support that doesn't absolutely synergize with his abilities, then morde just loses outright, and becomes useless lategame. and when lategame hits anyway, morde simply gets outscaled unless the enemy team has no way to peel a mordekaiser off of them. and if the enemy team can peel away a champ with mobility off of their carries, what chance do you think mordekaiser will have?

this may be riot's game, but we are their playerbase. without us, riot has nothing. players do have the right to say "hey, we don't like whats happening, and here's why"

and its a pretty big fucking issue when most of the mordekaiser feedback when outright unanswered in the pbe thread.

Matezoide2 votes

I legitimately dont understand how shifting a champion's entire power into a single ability, while having his gimmick being centered around over-leveling is healthy is any way, shapre or form.

New Mord is incredibly toxic and will single handily push ADCs out of Bottom Lane if he ever becomes viable.

Blade of Justic2 votes

Seriously? This is starting to get obnoxious.

People will drool over and call Sion's rework the best one because "He had no identity. He have identity now." and then when Morde finally gets worked on and people flip their tables.

So, why is it okay for Old Sion (Who gave people the opportunity to try out a variety of builds like AD, AP, Hybrid, Support, Tank, Glass Cannon, ect) to be homogenized into just CC Tank (Great identity. We totally don't have any CC tanks in LoL. /sarcasm) when it's not okay for Mordekaiser to be touched after so long of having no attention to him and having his kit changed more lightly than Sion?

I'm starting to think that the community hates it when champions are made that can be built in different fashions and instead like each champ to have 1 build.

Mortekaiser3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a1KEPh3W,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2015-08-23T05:55:14.211+0000)

Seriously? This is starting to get obnoxious.

People will drool over and call Sion's rework the best one because "He had no identity. He have identity now." and then when Morde finally gets worked on and people flip their tables.

So, why is it okay for Old Sion (Who gave people the opportunity to try out a variety of builds like AD, AP, Hybrid, Support, Tank, Glass Cannon, ect) to be homogenized into just CC Tank (Great identity. We totally don't have any CC tanks in LoL. /sarcasm) when it's not okay for Mordekaiser to be touched after so long of having no attention to him and having his kit changed more lightly than Sion?

I'm starting to think that the community hates it when champions are made that can be built in different fashions and instead like each champ to have 1 build.

i dont know if i can really comment on sion before his rework too much, because i played only a few games of his old kit, but from what I did play of it, it was kind of a mess, with half of his kit being almost entirely useless under a certain buildpath

his new kit, though, does have different build paths, and the dumb, simplistic CC pure tank isn't the only one that is available to new sion, just fyi (i will grant that the AP sion probably isn't a thing anymore, but full AD sion is one of the scariest things to deal with when he lands his abilities. try a ghostblade rush on sion and use its active while in your passive dead form)

but even so, he (new sion) has a kit that is strong overall, and has different strategies behind it, and the best part is it doesn't have all of its power budget locked away in a single ability, and it certainly isn't loaded with situational gimmicks that only apply if x and y happen. use Q to slow/knockup, w is a shield, e is ranged harass, R is initiate ult. simple, yet effective!

new morde is a far different beast than his former form.

old morde Q: empowered auto that echoed to 3 enemies and did equal damage to the target and the enemies, with some bonus damage if isolated. new morde Q: 3 empowered autos on a champion that has nerfed attack speed. the first two are needed to have been struck to realize its full potential. on a champ that doesn't really have room to itemize attack speed beyond trinity force, why can i reasonably expect to hit all 3 in a situation? where is the option for a middle ground auto that does damage along the lines of the second empowered Q instantly instead? a situationally powerful ability is not an ability that is overall strong, imo. if I have to have a support with me to access the full power of it, it is not an ability that I can consider strong.

old morde W: extra MR and Armor, gave around a sunfire cape's worth of damage over time for a few seconds, also had some situational mobility, could be cast on minions or just cast on self if nothing else is around. new morde W: situational cast that requires an ally around to benefit from it at all. if no allies are present, it is entirely useless to have at all.

old morde E: damage in a cone, strong bases allowed a max, but punished spamming with health costs until spellvamp was purchased new morde E: damage in a cone, weaker bases but an AD ratio encourages building morde in a hybrid manner. health costs remain the same, damage overall is lower.

old morde R: DoT that when enemies died under, turned them into an AA based minion that did damage based on the items the champion had new morde R: same as above, but with the added situational dragon ghost. again, situationally strong (ie an ability that you have no direct access to without extraneous circumstances isn't an ability you can consider strong in a situation where you need damage/CC/mobility right away)

my point is I don't think it is healthy to pin so much situational power onto a champion that used to be all about that direct, up front damage. sion before his rework had abilities that were similar to what they are now, and altering them into what they are now made him a stronger champion

morde's changes make him less coherent and direct as a champion, and i think he suffers for it overall

doombotMECHA1 votes

meanwhile nobody talks about the master yi rework which killed ap yi (which was probably the best thing to ever leave this game oh god why was it ever allowed)

Risurin1 votes

I just hate that they want to push him bot lane so much. I though he was fine as a solo lane. But no! S T R A T E G I C D I V E R S I T Y B O Y Z ! We need to force random stuff botlane, because some people cant see the difference between marksman already. Lets leave half the champions, that hardly shine in the lane supposed to be great for them, in the dust.

RavenMagus1 votes

He's an alternative to ranged marksman in the botlane, and I think that's a pretty cool thing for him to be, and for the game to have.

Sure he could have been tuned to keep him in a solo lane instead, but there's plenty of other champs you can play in solo lanes. I think this iteration for Morde is new and exciting.

Though I do wish he could at least use his W in a solo lane - but personally, I appreciate an actual attempt to shake up the meta a little bit.

Mortekaiser1 votes

{quoted}

He's an alternative to ranged marksman in the botlane, and I think that's a pretty cool thing for him to be, and for the game to have.

Sure he could have been tuned to keep him in a solo lane instead, but there's plenty of other champs you can play in solo lanes. I think this iteration for Morde is new and exciting.

Though I do wish he could at least use his W in a solo lane - but personally, I appreciate an actual attempt to shake up the meta a little bit.

but the problem with that was, you could always have taken bruisers botlane. shit like pantheon/xin zhao botlane was something you could just pull off and wreck faces with anyway.

morde's kit had some AD scaling, basically equal mobility for his w, and strong bases to be taken botlane before. why do you think that originally wasn't popular? could it have to do with teams wanting sustained, consistent, and ranged damage? why didn't people do AD/Hybrid bruiser morde botlane before, where he had even more bases and could outburst champs like graves, given levels?

its because it wasn't very good overall. the current winrate of morde now, which is now 46.82% and falling still, reflects this. when morde was taken solo lanes pre-rework, his winrate was 51%. it had a niche, but wasn't nearly overbearing enough to dominate everything.

would you rather have a 6 item ADC, or a 6 item morde (typically, mordes build trinity/rylais/full tank)?

"plenty of other champs you can play in solo lanes"? with that reasoning, riot should never release a champ for any lane anymore, and instead create some sort of monstrosity that is invisible and runs around healing allies in their lanes instead, and can help allies take jungle camps instead of having some sort of jungler, because that will be healthy for the game and shake the meta up, right?

do you really think trying to shake up the meta so much is worth further complicating a perfectly fine kit, making it situational, and polarizing it?

Risurin1 votes

{quoted}

He's an alternative to ranged marksman in the botlane, and I think that's a pretty cool thing for him to be, and for the game to have.

Sure he could have been tuned to keep him in a solo lane instead, but there's plenty of other champs you can play in solo lanes. I think this iteration for Morde is new and exciting.

Though I do wish he could at least use his W in a solo lane - but personally, I appreciate an actual attempt to shake up the meta a little bit.

i mean kills lane with melee champions are/were still a thing. What i dislike is that there is so many markmen that hardly work botlane to begin with, and they are looking into adding other kind of champion to the pool instead of looking at the ones that are currently weak. I mean, sure he is new, liek thats the goal of a rework?, and of course he will feel exciting, since he is new.

What i'm concerned about is that they already stated that they want bot lane to be not adc reliant, and so far their solution is to load one champion and force him bot, even if it cost him his solo lane abilities. Is that really a good way to balance things ? are they going to do the same with other champions to force them there ? what happen with marksman ? they arent as strong as they used to, and now we see the first of possibly many random champion pushed bot. why would you picked them anymore ? why was having them in the game was a bad thing to begin with ? why is those champions such a better solution ?

"shake up the meta"? i'm pretty sure we've seen all sort of stuff being played this season so far. Where are marksman going to be when those "replacements" become the next best thing. Because thats how adc work as a role. The best damage output build/champs are what standout and are being played to have the highest sustained dps, what if they just dont compare to those alternatives ? From the look of it, mordekaiser seem to over shadow the alternatives, and the adcs that were already underplayed, will see even less play.

http://champion.gg/champion/Mordekaiser/ADC

56% winrate plat + elo :( new best adc. i know he is still new and what not, but thats feel like such a hit to the marksman role.

bartuc661 votes

I believe the word you are looking for is "hubris."

Caytheles1 votes

Ive been playing the New Morde, and he seems like he is in a good spot. HE has high risk though. You cant just go in and 2v2 without a plan. i feel his dmg is abit intense but then again he isnt Ranked like an ADC. i dont know. the only problem i have is i do have a hard time Controlling Dragon.

agbudar1 votes

morde needed change simple as that im surprised enough they stuck with his shield and ult though and ended up making those aspects of his with the right build stronger then ever.

Mortekaiser5 votes

{quoted}

morde needed change simple as that im surprised enough they stuck with his shield and ult though and ended up making those aspects of his with the right build stronger then ever.

why did morde need change when he was in a perfectly fine spot before?

and why would morde need change more than most of the roster currently on league?

Dextix LT3 votes

Because CertainlyT DURRRR.

MasqureMan1 votes

"too much counterplay"? Umm, still the same counterplay he had before, if you can kite him and not get in range, he's dead and does nothing to you.

Mortekaiser1 votes

{quoted}

"too much counterplay"? Umm, still the same counterplay he had before, if you can kite him and not get in range, he's dead and does nothing to you.

the q has a lot of ramp up, and is over relatively quickly. morde can zone in melees away for a few seconds, but not long enough, and in early levels, the cooldown is so high that it isn't a very good skill at all to have

old q could bounce off of minions and do decent damage with just the echoes, especially when maxed

MasqureMan2 votes

{quoted}

the q has a lot of ramp up, and is over relatively quickly. morde can zone in melees away for a few seconds, but not long enough, and in early levels, the cooldown is so high that it isn't a very good skill at all to have

old q could bounce off of minions and do decent damage with just the echoes, especially when maxed

Sir, new Q legit deletes people late game. People, as in pretty much anyone who gets hit by 3 hits. There is a lot of obvious power in it and the obvious counterplay is keep away from him. Would you rather it not have ramp up and deal all its damage at once? Yes, he lost wave clear alone in exchange for that power, but his W makes it so his wave clear really hasnt suffered as long as you're in a melee lane. I've had a lot of success in my normal games with morde, you just have to play smart.

Mortekaiser2 votes

{quoted}

Sir, new Q legit deletes people late game. People, as in pretty much anyone who gets hit by 3 hits. There is a lot of obvious power in it and the obvious counterplay is keep away from him. Would you rather it not have ramp up and deal all its damage at once? Yes, he lost wave clear alone in exchange for that power, but his W makes it so his wave clear really hasnt suffered as long as you're in a melee lane. I've had a lot of success in my normal games with morde, you just have to play smart.

i would rather have the old Q entirely. it had AOE, isolation damage, and instantaneous damage that wasn't weak, but not overly strong.

i honestly don't care how much you load that third q, when it is so hard to land on anything come lategame, where the kiting adcs are the kitiest, and the ranged mages nuke before morde can even get close

waveclear was the best part about old morde, and he needed it, because of everything else he lacked.

he got no compensation mobility or CC, and as a result, the Q became overall weaker.

telling me the potential damage is better means nothing when the chances of pulling it off are too low, unless morde and his team was already winning hard

MasqureMan1 votes

{quoted}

i would rather have the old Q entirely. it had AOE, isolation damage, and instantaneous damage that wasn't weak, but not overly strong.

i honestly don't care how much you load that third q, when it is so hard to land on anything come lategame, where the kiting adcs are the kitiest, and the ranged mages nuke before morde can even get close

waveclear was the best part about old morde, and he needed it, because of everything else he lacked.

he got no compensation mobility or CC, and as a result, the Q became overall weaker.

telling me the potential damage is better means nothing when the chances of pulling it off are too low, unless morde and his team was already winning hard

you need a team to support morde just like you do for an adc. you need cc to land those Q's, and i always get a rylai's/deadman's plate. if you are desperately ignoring all merit of the new morde, you can do that. i can easily see that he works

More from Gameplay

More by Mortekaiser