fuck the aram accounts.
fuck the whiners.
make it all random.
when I run up against teams that have at least 2 champs with some bullshit that you can't answer with your own teamcomp, it makes it such a utterly miserable experience that I question why I still play ARAMs, and I have thousands of games of ARAM in my belt.
and to everyone who tells me to just not play the mode: you're part of the problem.
snibedi snab22 votes/STILL/ give a shit
Implying they ever did give a shit.
MXXXXXL6 votesBut didn't they give enough of a shit in the first place to make a whole map just for the community created game mode?
Euthenaasia3 votesThey also created summoner's scar then literally deleted it. Stop pretending there is rational thought.
DarkSunSovereign2 votesCrystal Scar.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesDon't forget when they beta tested magma chamber, then it suddenly fell off the map. Oh, and the latest admission that they're no longer going to balance TT.
EDIT: However, it is very rational for a developer to focus their efforts where there is the greatest cost/benefit ratio. Just kind of a dick move to pull the rug out from under people, then claim it is their fault for standing on it.
Solar Arcanine19 votes"Fuck the whiners" ... and this thread is what, exactly?
At any rate, even IF the mode included champions that you don't own, the same scenarios will still occur. It happens. The point of ARAM isn't for totally balanced play, it's throwing at you a random champion from your pool. Some games are going to be stomps due to the nature of the game. Actually recently I think I've had ARAM games lasting longer than most of my games on the rift, and they've been really fun. Making this change wouldn't really change anything. People will still whine about certain comps or champions, and then we'd have people complaining about how they have to play champions they don't own.
Mortekaiser7 votes[{quoted}](name=Solar Arcanine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AE3MPys5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-13T02:05:27.842+0000)
"Fuck the whiners" ... and this thread is what, exactly?
At any rate, even IF the mode included champions that you don't own, the same scenarios will still occur. It happens. The point of ARAM isn't for totally balanced play, it's throwing at you a random champion from your pool. Some games are going to be stomps due to the nature of the game. Actually recently I think I've had ARAM games lasting longer than most of my games on the rift, and they've been really fun. Making this change wouldn't really change anything. People will still whine about certain comps or champions, and then we'd have people complaining about how they have to play champions they don't own.
the percentage of "shit happening" would be vastly lower with all champions being available. I could accept it much easier when it would happen under the stipulation of everyone has all champions available.
Solar Arcanine1 votesI'm just not certain it would make things better in the long run. Like yeah it would shit on ARAM accounts but for the majority of players who play ARAM it would force them into champions they don't want to play. I know that the "random" aspect sometimes gives you a champ you don't want to play, but let's face it, a lot of people don't own champions like 
for a reason, unless you're really good with them. This would just increase dodges and toxicity from people who got a champion they don't own. Something would have to change along with it (re-roll rate/limit, tower strength, etc) for this to be more "acceptable."
Votable Jester1 votesI personally have played the game long (and often) enough that I just buy champions that seem interesting to me. It doesn't matter whether I'm good with them or think I'll spend time learning them. I just buy ones that I want to play around with.
That does make it a bit annoying though when I get someone like Kalista in ARAM when I almost purely play immobile mages. I still enjoy the act of playing her, but I'm extremely likely to be a liability to my team if I'm given her.
Should I just never buy another non-ARAM strong champion or just keep giving myself a worse pool? It really does feel lame when I'm given one of my silly buys and the enemy team has Lux, Sona, Caitlyn, etc.
Opening up the options will still keep the mode competitive for those who want to play it seriously without making it suck for people who just own too many champions. Besides, it seems more in the spirit of ARAM for people to be playing champions they aren't totally comfortable on.
Milodic Mellodi6 votesI agree. If it's "all champions", there's still a chance you'll receive a champ you own and/or you're good at. Nothing would be changed, and people would still complain. Instead of making it "all champs", instead make it "all champs you own"; if you're going to do badly, then at least you won't be able to whine that Riot gave you a champ you can't play.
Lauchmelder11 votesThat's literally how it works right now.
Unlocking all champions would mean that the OP champs could still get rolled out, but it wouldn't be a gamemode of only Blitz, Ezreal, Sona, Veigar, etc.
Morticianjohn1 votesActually you have the free champs that you could get stuck with. I got stuck with Nocturne today.... ran out of rerolls, no trades availible etc... I just played the nocturne. I did poorly but my team was in line for a win until we had an afk. Anyway, this is just to say that it happens.
I do like the suggestion to make it randomly select between all champions, however, I could see going the other way and going with only champions that you own. Either way is better than the current system of allowing players to get stuck with one of the free champions.
Votable Jester5 votesThe difference will be that players aren't punished for buying champions that aren't optimal in ARAM. It'll be a (in the long run) more balanced environment while still maintaining (and in fact increasing) the randomness and chaos that make the mode fun.
Dengeden14 votesIt's also quite miserable to be forced into playing champions you have no idea how to play (or don't want to play period. Looking at you, Trynd) and that won't drop key frags or chests.
Astôlfo5 votesThat's the whole point of ARAM. If you don't like that, don't play.
It Hertz When IP3 votesThat's what ARAM is for. If you only want to play specific champions, go play 3v3 or SR.
Cynical Rain10 votesRiot, if you still give a shit about ARAM, do not make it all champions.
hermeneutist3 votesyea. the problem isn't the selective pool or "aram accounts", it's just noobs who don't know what they're doing. giving them champs they've never seen in their life is just gonna make things worse.
imo, aram comps should be picked by an algorithm, instead of simply being pure random. so high winrate champs will get "balanced" with a low winrate champ on the same team.
or alternatively, champs are split into 5 different tiers, and the team gets 1 from each tier.
rerolls will have to factor these in as well.
this should help prevent the full poke team with insane range that can beat up your all-melee team in 10mins.
MisterHealYoGirl9 votesThat makes it very polarizing, though. Like 'Ok someone else on your team got Sona have fun playing Evelynn for 20 minutes'. If you've guaranteed that only one or two people on a team are going to have fun at a time, nobody will play the mode.
Determining these tiers would also be almost impossible. Just working out which champions ARE too strong or too weak takes an entire live gameplay team. Trying to sort them into brackets would be a logistical nightmare, especially given the high levels of variance present with ARAM's wacky team comps. Champions that steamroll some comps can be shut down completely by others.
I think ARAM is fine as it is: a fast-paced, high-variance, teamfight-based version of League of Legends. Occasionally you get comp stomped, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.
hermeneutist1 votesyou can still swap the "good" champs and reroll the "bad" ones. accounts should definitely not be stuck with one aram champ tier every game, and in fact i think it should simply rotate each game. maybe finishing a game with lower tier champs can give more reroll points or something.
the simplest way to do the tiers would be just going by winrates. it's not necessarily affected by excess variance, since the data set is humongous. i mean, if they really wanted to churn out fair match-ups, they could do even more complicated algorithms that take into account which champs counter which ones, or comps that have too much cc, etc... but nobody expects that much intricacy.
if the game is just about who lucks out with a better comp, it feels pretty bad. there isn't much incentive to stick it out with a 
team when the opponent has 
. either way, this is just to discuss potential improvements, suss out their weaknesses and maybe brainstorm implementation strategies. no point saying "let's not change" in such a thread.
Altonius Amakiir1 votesAre you saying my precious warwick isnt good enough right now for aram?
swordofsun3 votesARAMs the only place I like playing Warwick...
hermeneutist1 voteswarwick is playable... but you basically can't do anything until you farm a few tank items. meanwhile, if you are facing a poke-heavy comp, they can farm YOU. you can't initiate with ult most of the game, since anyone with hard cc can easily cancel it, or they can just hard focus and kill you.
in short: warwick is heavily dependent on comp.
PaladinNO7 votesI own every champion (currently all 134), and got 6380 ARAM games played. I got ~twice (used to be three times) as many takedowns in that mode than I got farm in Classic.
What I would like to see is more severe punishments for ARAM dodging. If anyone queue up for a random game mode ("All Random, All Mid" - ARAM), but can't handle a random champion, they got no business in that queue. You suck it up and play what you end up with after rolls and trades. Though I would like to see a 3rd reroll introduced, considering the current number of champions.
Remove Mark, bring back Zephyr, Twin Shadows, The Lightbringer, and Hextech Sweeper, revert the Guardian's Horn changes, and give Atma's Impaler and Deathfire Grasp a test-run, and it's all good.
Not sure if I agree with an all-champion policy though. It doesn't matter to me anymore, but I played Jarvan IV there before I unlocked him, and got an S-. "You can not get chests or key fragments on champions you do not own" (or similar).
dunder kill6 votesAlso, please remove 
Her 70% winrate is getting old.
uwu bb how u8 votesAlso, please remove
Her 70% winrate is getting old.
her reduced healing and absurdly squishy nature arent as problematic as the poke, super tank frontline + 1 good carry, and hehexd CC Chain comps that pop up in arams
My arguement for fixing arams has been and prolly always will be to
-make gold earning exactly like ascension (so both sides have perfectly even income reducing snowballs) -balance comps bt carry tank and sup and last but not least -add things to the map to make use of certain champs passives and abilities that serve no purpose outside of summoners rift
all random and all mid is a good idea, but not having everyone always on a level playing field with their champ/comp is usually the biggest problem.
swordofsun1 votes[{quoted}](name=2Pot Shakur,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AE3MPys5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-01-13T01:14:02.921+0000)
her reduced healing and absurdly squishy nature arent as problematic as the poke, super tank frontline + 1 good carry, and hehexd CC Chain comps that pop up in arams
Was up against a team that consisted of Morgana, Lux, Malz, Victor, and someone else once. It did not end well for my team.
Rectum Rocket1 votes5 banner of commands will squash them.
Chaos6891 votesAbsurdly 
Squishy 
I hated taht Sona...
The Nami Goddess5 votesas someone who plays aram almost exclusively... there is no problem. it's random. you get good games, you get bad games. same with comps. random doesn't always mean fair and that's a risk you take when you purposely pick the mode. they implemented trading and rerolling for a reason. don't complain or don't play. and don't try to fix what isn't broken. there's no ranked aram for good reason.
PhDs Nuts3 votesas someone who plays aram almost exclusively... there is no problem. it's random. you get good games, you get bad games. same with comps. random doesn't always mean fair and that's a risk you take when you purposely pick the mode. they implemented trading and rerolling for a reason. don't complain or don't play. and don't try to fix what isn't broken. there's no ranked aram for good reason.
Your aram MMR is low bronze. There's a huge problem with aram accounts at higher matchmaking.
The Nami Goddess5 votesit's not low bronze lmao. but the point stands. it's not as competitive as a norm. so people need to stop crying about the random in all random, or stop playing
PhDs Nuts1 votesit's not low bronze lmao. but the point stands. it's not as competitive as a norm. so people need to stop crying about the random in all random, or stop playing
ATastyDessert2 votesI doubt I'm actually in the top 9% of ARAM MMR
cocacolalips1 votesaram is way less competitive than other games and has a much lower average elo than say ranked, all the very good ranked players (plat+) don't play aram at all, what may seem like a good aram elo is just average when put in perspective, for example my aram elo is supposedly top 1-2% when my ranked elo was only plat (top 10% ranked) last time I played ranked
you may as well be top 9% unless you duo queue a lot which may skew the results a bit, but that's not as good as it would seem
Minarde1 votes[ARAM] has a much lower average elo than say ranked
That's not how Elo/MMR works. The highest ARAM MMRs are lower than the highest SR MMRs, but that's because ARAM has a smaller playerbase, so there's fewer people to take MMR from.
all the very good ranked players (plat+) don't play aram at all
Source? There might be an argument that people grinding ranked don't have time/energy to play ARAM, but actual data backing that up would be nice.
what may seem like a good aram elo is just average when put in perspective
Again, not how MMR works. A good MMR cannot possibly also be average.
for example my aram elo is supposedly top 1-2% when my ranked elo was only plat (top 10% ranked) last time I played ranked
Separate game modes have separate MMRs, and SR tests a different skillset than ARAM. It makes little sense to use SR MMR to compare ARAM MMR.
cocacolalips1 votesif you ask 100 kids to run 100 meters, then ask 100 adults to do the same, the average speed for the kids is going to be lower than the average speed for the adults, since kids run slower. top 50 on the kids ladder doesn't have the same value as top 50 on the adult ladder, despite the 2 groups having the same numbers. the distribution may be the same, 1200 starting elo, 2000+ top end, but the skillset this elo stands for isn't. Kinda like universities degrees, popular university / unknown one.
we bump into eachother now and then whenever an aram discussion shows up haha, I don't know about you, but I am not a very good player by any mean, I'm okay I guess, but that's it really, my mechanics aren't anything grand, and my game knowledge is just above average I guess, but again that's it, I'm miles away from all the diamond+ players with crazy mechanics etc and if the games I am in where everyone plays like me are the top 2%, it becomes obvious the competition isn't very good and the average aram player just isn't very good
sure, you could make an argument about the games modes being different, but that's far fetched, and let's face it, not what is happening. it's just 2 different groups of players, one really try hard, competitive, with money and fame at the top, and another one really casual that likes to mess around, and those players make the bulk of the 2 groups.
Minarde1 votesI think, rather than comparing kids racing to adults racing, comparing a bunch of people playing poker to a bunch of people playing football would be more fitting. It simply doesn't make sense to compare results for one contest under the framework for the other contest. Being the best quarterback doesn't mean much when everyone's just sitting around the poker table. The skillsets might have some overlap, but they aren't the same (e.g. the existence of one trick ponies in SR).
So, yes, the modes are definitely different, and it's not far-fetched that that impacts perceived skill. I do agree though that ARAM's single queue results in a weird mess of competitive and casual players, which itself results in a weird mess of gameplay quality.
Minarde1 votesI'm not sure how accurate the MMR-equivalent distribution graph is, but the value itself seems fairly accurate. At the very least, it roughly matches all the other MMRs from various sources over the years.
The Nami Goddess1 votescongrats stalker, one account. my mmr is not the issue either way so idk what you're trying to prove with a pointless link
SnowFall4 votesand don't forget the key drop for all champions
Lewjac2 votesOkay seriously all i do is play aram if no1 i kno is online or i try to wind down after work, so that being said i have run into my teams all adc and they are mostly ap and 1 tank they won, ive run into my whole team is tank with no range and no go in until 1 of us hits lvl6 and the whole team is 3 ap and 2 ad and we won. I think aram is suppose to be a fun casual game type not to take so damn seriously and i also think its a great place to focus your skills like team fights and find new ways to play champs. Think about it if you are always the guy (or girl) stuck on some tank against ranged and/or cc you shouldve learned by now some tricks to avoid it or go threw it. I mean serilously aram has helped me position better in teamfights and dodge incoming abilities. You either play it for a time killer or you play it to hone your skills, there is no competive aram!
lGIaurunGl2 votesI agree, make all champs available, would also be a good way to learn champions that you don't own.
Serophous2 votesARAM just needs all champs unlocked instead of champs owned + rotating.
Lycidas2 votesPlaying against similar champions all the time in aram is frustrating. I hope they look to address this. Rerolls kind of tuned it even more towards seeing the same champions. I'd be a little worried that the number of dodges would increase if they made aram assign champions randomly from the total selection, but I think that's a much smaller price to pay for more interesting games. Hopefully the people that only wish to stomp games where they are on a comfortable aram champ will dodge more often and tire of participating in a format that was originally fun and silly and relaxed. People wanting to play specific champions might consider avoiding a format designated all RANDOM all mid. There are several other places where they can enjoy the champion they wish to play without infringing on the principle of this game mode.
I7A6X2v22 votesAll random All champs ONLY IF they REMOVE the trade option! So those fckers gonna play what they get.
SuddenAntagonist2 votesAs someone who owns all but 1 champ (Taliyah or whatever. The earthbender chick), I have to comment that it doesn't feel random even with that many. A roster of ~130 champions, and I get the same ~10 pretty consistently. I've rolled Skarner 6 times in a row (with 5 being dodges, but still), played Vladimir in 3-4 out of 10 games, and seem to see the same exact champions in every game.
I'd really like to know what exactly they use to randomize everything, because with so many choices, I should definitely see more variety I feel. That's just my two cents though. For a more relevant comment, I don't believe much would change because of what I said.
TL;DR: The randomize function on ARAM sucks regardless of number of champs.
InfinitexMortal1 votesIts not all champs?
Mortekaiser15 votesIts not all champs?
no. ARAMs do not consist of all champions in the game, but rather owned champions on the account.
this is why accounts that own most/all champions that are amazing in ARAM are a problem. they can get a champion that a lot of teams cannot answer consistently.
Spice POWAH1 votesIt also picks your champ from he free rotation btw
I know because it gave me Azir once