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morde is now more polarizing and toxic than before

Mortekaiser··52 votes·4,432 views

yes im aware he CAN do more damage

yes im aware he has a lot of potential damage

but you know what happens when lategame comes? since morde has a shitty build path that goes fucking everywhere, he doesn't scale at all into lategame.

"but morte, morde was always kiteable!" that may be true, but even when being kited, he still had options

currently, his options when being kited are: die

as you can see, this brings a lot to the table for the enemy team

so, morde can go full tank, and becomes ignored by everyone ever. as full tank, his empowered q might do some damage, but it can't outright burst squishies and it can't do meaningful damage to tanks. and he has no cc. why would you build morde full tank when other tanks outtank him, have better steroids, can peel adcs, and so forth? the fucking dragon ghost?

morde can go bruiser/damage, but he faces the problem of getting destroyed by anyone who can survive his empowered Qs directly (nasus) or just outright kills him before he can get all his damage off (annie) or champs that can just CC him anyway (all of them) and walk away (all of them)

no more solo mordekaiser, and jungle morde doesn't work in any reasonable way (riot claimed that morde would be a jungler, but what the shit would you take a morde jungle for when you could just take yi/xin/tryndamere and do things), so botlane is the niche that morde is supposed to excel at. and apart from being an early lane bully, morde does nothing when mid-lategame hits

i fucking called this so much

113 Comments

The Fast17 votes

Trinity Rylai's scales pretty well, and lets you build into tank, meaning you can survive the damage people do to you after your 3 Qs, and hit them again. And there are very few champions that can kite Morde with these items. You have champions that can deny him in Ashe Kalista and Caitlyn, but this just means he has good and bad matchups. Sounds healthy to me.

But you really wanna hate this rework, so I'm just going to take my double digit kill scores somewhere else.

Mortekaiser13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-08-21T02:24:32.772+0000)

Trinity Rylai's scales pretty well, and lets you build into tank, meaning you can survive the damage people do to you after your 3 Qs, and hit them again. And there are very few champions that can kite Morde with these items. You have champions that can deny him in Ashe Kalista and Caitlyn, but this just means he has good and bad matchups. Sounds healthy to me.

But you really wanna hate this rework, so I'm just going to take my double digit kill scores somewhere else.

trinity rylais is so fucking expensive for stats that aren't incredibly offensive. if they would die to that set of items on new morde, they would have been dead on old morde. catching people out of position is going to happen on new morde, just like it happened on old morde. granted, it might make more catches happen, but it doesn't increase the likelihood by any amount that is worth the new cost.

again, those items aren't gonna give him any sort of potential in a teamfight, unless nobody focuses him down whatsoever. they will change nothing in a teamfight, especially against champs that can outright fight morde anyway. and nobody is gonna let morde get his third empowered q auto off when the time he has to land it is so small it might as well go on cooldown if someone isn't standing right next to him.

also, those two items + full tank morde, and morde will just be ignored in teamfights come lategame. what is he going to do, walk at the people kiting him? or how about (try to) burst down the enemy tanks (and fail), the only targets he has a remote chance to attack lategame?

mordekaiser was sitting at around a 51% winrate before the rework. now its 48% and falling.

azingy, a challenger player, has been trying to make morde work, and has lost all 4 games he's played morde in ranked so far. im all for changing the meta, but doing it on a champ which already had clear strengths and weaknesses, and was simple, easy to play, fun, and didn't need to be changed?

no serious group of players is going to want a morde in the place of an adc. the meta will not change at all around morde's new bullshit.

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-08-21T02:27:36.756+0000)

item 3053 item 3072 item 3111 item 3742 item 3065 item 3143

he's an AD tank now

item 3748 also viable

this build gives me diphtheria, and morde won't really be able to take advantage of it very well. and what the fuck is up with steraks LOL

The Fast5 votes

I'm sorry, I dont think it's easy to ignore 2200 raw hybrid damage. I'm gonna stop trying to convince you, since you aren't open to the thought anyway.

Mortekaiser9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-08-21T03:17:01.526+0000)

I'm sorry, I dont think it's easy to ignore 2200 raw hybrid damage. I'm gonna stop trying to convince you, since you aren't open to the thought anyway.

most tanks can ignore a fair portion of that damage (morde doesn't have room for pen in his builds), and without an adc on your team, morde is pretty much the only consistent DPS available. and when the Qs run out, the enemy adc shoots morde in the forehead and he explodes into scrap.

did i mention the enemy team still has an adc that can just autoattack and take out towers much better than morde can?

the only way he's getting that empowered Q on an squishy enemy lategame is with flash. and thats a big fat IF he can get a perfect scenario where he can set it up perfectly and there are minions to smack around to ramp it up

A Miss Fortune2 votes

I keep seeing Mordekaiser bot lane players try to build some tanky build and then their team have 0 damage. What makes me more annoyed is when people still try to build him AP even though his Q ratios are 390% AD and 260% AP.

I feel like Mordekaiser isn't viable against high elo or just competent players. He's so easy to kite with virtually no resources by himself to prevent him from being kited. He can't teamfight well since he of course will be the ADC and he's melee, so unlike ADCs he can't have the ability to attack safely without getting instakilled. Sure his shield gives him a bit more defense, but no 500 health shield is even going to keep you safe for the duration you're trying to get up to the enemy team during a teamfiht.

I've pretty much agreed with every single thing you've said on this thread.

Rew7113 votes

Sorry if this is random. His duo is weak too. No MS for gap closers. His E range is just normal. If Mordekaiser flung out damage from 500 range, the 325 would make sense. But Morde does not do that, his Q only goes to 200, his E is his only range, and his W is iffy at best to even heal him. He needs buffs.

Binxy Prime4 votes

Its hard to survive 2200 hybrid damage, but its trivial to avoid morde's damage all together.

Dextix LT2 votes

It is. Because for morde its next to impposible to apply it unless his enemy is chain cced for 3-4 seconds.

The Fast2 votes

Not if Morde has phage passive and a Rylai's. Pretty easy to apply honestly.

Ulquiorra9955 votes

Actually...

Tumble/Condemn/90 Caliber net/Rocket Jump/Buster Shot/Flame Chompers/Living Shadow/Playful-Trickster/Safeguard/...

...Yup. It's easy to ignore. 2200 damage means nothing when you can't use it.

The Fast2 votes

But with Trinity Rylai's you CAN catch them. Really easily honestly.

Exception of ashe and Kalista.

Ulquiorra9953 votes

If it is so easy, please enlighten us. How can I catch an enemy priority target like Vayne, Trist, Zed or some other ADC/APC/assassin, who probably has self peel and mobility, as well as peel from their tank and/or support, when my options to sticking to the target are:

-A slow which I can unreliably apply at 40%, or reliably at 20% by using my long CD ultimate -A speed boost which relies on me already hitting something in melee range

I've tried new Morde. It's simply disgusting. In lane, if you have a good Leona or Thresh enemy isn't having any fun there. They get stunned once and turned into mincemeat by extremely high damage from overlapping W and Q. But come teamfights, and oh god, do you feel useless. You are painfully slow without any reliable CC or mobility of your own and as such are required to stay in close quarters for 4 seconds or 3 AAs to deal damage. If enemy has at least one of the following: Janna, Lee, Nautilus, Thresh, Gnar, Kalista, and many more strong and popular champions you are fucked.

Not to mention that your scaling is all over the place: your abilities scale off AD and AP, your shield off HP, MR and AR, and mobility/slowing items are an absolute must - so you can almost never build to full effectiveness.

Wolfeur2 votes

item 3078 item 3116 item 3146 item 3748

The Fast3 votes

That is awesome for damage, but not for staying alive.

Wolfeur2 votes

Well, titanic hydra and Rylai gives HP, hextech gives life-steal and spell-vamp, and don't forget that more damage means more shield.

ElJanitorFrank1 votes

Well, 3 of those gives hp, a decent amount at that, and it leaves room for a defensive item, and boots (which, unless mobi's or swifties) will also be defensive items.

That'd make him a bruiser.

Kind of like what he's supposed to be.

The Fast1 votes

1100HP is good, and you can probably stay alive for a small while, but if you are focused with that build, you are going to die.

ElJanitorFrank1 votes

If you are focused on a full tank build against high damage opponents, you are going to die. That argument does not make sense to me.

The Fast1 votes

Trinity Rylai's Gunblade Titanic is not a full tank build. That leaves room for 1 resistance item, which, unless its Zzr'ots, is going to leave you pretty vulnerable to some kind of damage, and cap you at 3000ish HP.

I'm not saying the build is bad necessarily, but I'm saying finding the situation where that is the most optimal build would be difficult.

Plus building Titanic and not having HP in every item in your build (sans boots) seems like a tad of a waste.

ElJanitorFrank1 votes

I never said that this was an example of a full tank build.

My point was that your logic has no point; full tank Mundo will be killed if he is focused. ANYTHING if focused, will be killed.

Mortekaiser3 votes

just played a match where people told me to build morde ap w/ spellvamp. i thought that build wasn't viable anymore?

nobody knows what the fuck to do on him anymore, and that hurts to hear, especially to dedicated mains

foinhas5 votes

Then keep testing him... If your main problem with morde is his buildpath, don't complain about it after a day and a half.

When season 5 started, i wanted to jungle with eve, so i tested lots of rune/masteries/builds combos until i found somthing that worked. And while she was considered one of the worst junglers/champions in the game and completely unplayable, i was already wining games...

Keep playing him, and eventualy you'll find a way for him to work. If you don't want drag your team down in normals, just go co-op (no, it's nor just for noobs) until you find something you can work with, then move to normals again to see how he fares.

ElJanitorFrank2 votes

So the exact same build doesn't work on a different champion? How peculiar!

He's been out for a few days, just because you are not an expert on him anymore doesn't mean he is weak.

Auryiel3 votes

I expect Morde to be the new Yi : Kept shitty on purpose because he stomps the shit out of low elo, but unable to perform in high elo unless he's ridiculously overtuned

Nadalius3 votes

item 3085 item 3085 item 3085 item 3085 item 1310 item 3124

Best Morde build.

XeroKimo1 votes

No no no no, since morde is easily kited you need to properly make sure you make a build that makes him unkiteable...... since he already does a shit ton of damage, clearly the best build is

item 1306 item 1325 item 1323 item 1317 item 1314

item 1335 <----- this is still totally real

agbudar2 votes

item 3009 item 3116 item 3742 item 3078 item 3285 item 3172

Mortekaiser8 votes

{quoted}

item 3009 item 3116 item 3742 item 3078 item 3285 item 3172

again, shitty build path that goes nowhere and scales poorly

what does a morde with that build do that almost any other champion can't already do and better?

agbudar1 votes

deal tons of damage and walk very fast...ish

no kidding the upfront damage on this build is really surprising ofc the zephyr was more or less of a joke and i would replace it with a mr tank item

Binxy Prime3 votes

Renekton could go a similar build, be stronger in lane and have CC and mobility, Jinx could do 50 times the damage at a safe distance while not getting kited to death by everyone.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Why AP?

His Q has a significantly higher AD ratio.

I think the best build I have for him so far is.

item 3072 item 1306 item 3153 item 3139item 3074 item 3102

Not the cheapest, but it gives him multiple shields, a lot of sustain, and enough defense so he isn't instakilled in a teamfight.

Mortekaiser3 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-08-21T06:10:15.758+0000)

Why AP?

His Q has a significantly higher AD ratio.

I think the best build I have for him so far is.

item 3072 item 1306 item 3153 item 3139item 3074 item 3102

Not the cheapest, but it gives him multiple shields, a lot of sustain, and enough defense so he isn't instakilled in a teamfight.

that build is probably the closest morde has to a strong buildpath right now

but then again, why would i pick a melee with all of those items when i'd just have an adc with crit and lifesteal who can take towers just fine, and can contribute much more in teamfights?

im seeing no purpose behind morde right now except pubstomping sadly

Alphadef1 votes

Ad has a higher ratio, but you can get around maybe 400 ad if you go full ad, probably at least 700 ap going full ap. and that's not considering his other abilities scale better off ap (w and ult do exclusivly) and his ult offers bonus ap, not ad

The Fast1 votes

Hitting people 3 times with Q, because you also auto 3 times, puts Q at a 690% AD ratio. 700AP is 1820 damage + 3 hits is about 2300 damage, while 400AD is 2760 damage.

7ball1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2015-08-21T18:02:43.918+0000)

Hitting people 3 times with Q, because you also auto 3 times, puts Q at a 690% AD ratio. 700AP is 1820 damage + 3 hits is about 2300 damage, while 400AD is 2760 damage.

Why is this even important to discuss? youll not be hitting anyone 3 times anyways

The Fast1 votes

Damn, I guess I didn't get over 40 kills with my Q on new Mordekaiser across several victories. My bad.

Totally impossible to land. Thats why Imaqtpie has a positive winrate with new Mordekaiser on his feed l0rd. Damn.

7ball1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=000100010001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-21T18:07:42.129+0000)

Damn, I guess I didn't get over 40 kills with my Q on new Mordekaiser across several victories. My bad.

Totally impossible to land. Thats why Imaqtpie has a positive winrate with new Mordekaiser on his feed l0rd. Damn.

lol, dude the fact you landed the q in some games means nothing, I also killed a lot of ppl with morde third Q, but in all the ocasions I was being carried and my team would win the fight anyways

in a normal teamfight you will do nothing, and in lane even less, in lane it IS impossible to land a 3rd Q if your opponent is not retard

The Fast1 votes

Guess all those masters, high diamond, and challengers imaqtpie is playing with are retards then.

AtheosisX3 votes

Rofl...

Seriously if you build Morde sticky (speed items and Rylai's) with that 200 range it's actually harder to avoid the third Q than you would think.

Adrian Umbra2 votes

item 1054 -> item 1001 -> item 3044 -> item 3116 -> item 3111 -> item 3078 -> item 3053 -> item 3102 -> item 3742

Worked well for me last game. Max Q first, then max W or E depending on how much waveclear or healing you need and how often you're with someone else. Scaled extremely well into lategame, dealing half of a squishy's health on third Q with slows for days off the Rylai's. As soon as I complete the Rylai's, a lot of their ability to kite goes away. Is it healthy for the game that Morde can do that? Probably not. Will it be nerfed? Probably. But it's a defense for anyone saying new Morde is total crap.

And if you're arguing that it doesn't scale, I dealt the most damage out of anyone in the game. By a significant margin. On a game that almost reached 40 minutes. Trust me, it scales.

Mortekaiser1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-08-21T04:02:12.469+0000)

item 1054 -> item 1001 -> item 3044 -> item 3116 -> item 3111 -> item 3078 -> item 3053 -> item 3102 -> item 3742

Worked well for me last game. Max Q first, then max W or E depending on how much waveclear or healing you need and how often you're with someone else. Scaled extremely well into lategame, dealing half of a squishy's health on third Q with slows for days off the Rylai's. As soon as I complete the Rylai's, a lot of their ability to kite goes away. Is it healthy for the game that Morde can do that? Probably not. Will it be nerfed? Probably. But it's a defense for anyone saying new Morde is total crap.

And if you're arguing that it doesn't scale, I dealt the most damage out of anyone in the game. By a significant margin. On a game that almost reached 40 minutes. Trust me, it scales.

when you play against people who know how to kite and deal with you, morde will deal no damage to the squishies

why the hell do you think AD morde was never viable with the old morde? he still had strong AD scalings on his Q, and had high enough bases to where it didn't matter that E never scaled with AD

but no, apparently people think that intelligent players will be dumb enough to stand in melee range of morde while he smacks them around

TheDogIsOut2 votes

AP Mordekaiser still has strong scaling on Q. Go like item 3146 item 3001 item 3157 item 3089 item 3116 item 3020 , hit 2 times a minion with Q and then hope your opponents are crazily retarded enough to stay in range your flash (especially carries) so that you can oneshoot them.

Warning : this strategy might not work beyond bronze.

http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/983/9837141/2618670-0199714375-Kappa.png

phood2 votes

the changes, they make me so sad... everything about this change is just bad, and the dragon ghost? It's a toxic mechanic that created the need to "balance" him into the ground

I was actually playing a ton of mord mid before this and it was so fun

  • you have to build health now to get your shield large, and lots of health at that - the decay begins immediately and it doesn't stack up with your damage as much

  • the damage on the E is pathetic now, yeah sure its the same around level 1, but after that... base damage being cut by about half just sucks when the only ratio increase is .6 AD, that does NOT fill the hole

  • the W... oh god the W... no resistance steroid, and cannot even be cast when there are no allies near you, forbid you level that up and get stuck in a 1v1 fight - and the whole "gaining full XP" is only as good as the gains that come from leveling up, which there are minimal

  • the Q.... better suited to something like poppy for her rework, mord was never really a champ that stuck to people for the sake of beating them up, he was a big fight brawler and the spread damage on the Q was just better for that

  • was it really necessary to put him at the lowest base movement speed while cutting his base damage in half? that movement speed should be reserved for champions that have some way of escaping (be it mobility or something else - like anivia wall)

Mr Sir Lebowski2 votes

I'm loving the new Mord

Count Zubat2 votes

New Morde is now mid-game champ, destroying everything with that 3rd Q while having only Rylai and Trinity. That's what I feel, in mid-game teamfights, when everybody's around level 11-15, he completely elliminates everything. Then he falls off late game.

Qlawen2 votes

What the hell did they do to morde, he is Utter crap. Also why did they change the sound effect on his E? It use to sound impactful like you know, he was HURLING METAL SHARDS AT THE ENEMY. Not it sounds like he farted softly on the enemy. What was the idea behind these sound changes? Sound has always been a huge part of EVERY GAMING experience. He cannot use his W what so ever if he gets caught out alone. I'm just trailing randomly over this awful rework cause that seems like how they designed him, just threw post-its with changes at a wall and went with what stuck. They need to revert the changes at least the old morde was playable.

flying banelings1 votes

Can't we just bring back pre patch mord? Please?

7ball2 votes

[{quoted}](name=flying banelings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2015-08-22T01:30:19.243+0000)

Can't we just bring pre patch mord? Please?

yes please, this new morde sucks even in twisted treeline

ezreal stinks1 votes

item 3153 item 3742 item 3022 item 3748 item 3111 item 3078

bork first buy, will help keep you alive, on top of the active to help close the gap. afterwards get boots, the boots you get should be situational. i would say mercs just for extra tankiness plus the tenacity. afterwards get deadman's plate for some defense to allow you to stick to that adc longer, plus the extra movement speed can be nice. then get either a frozen mallet to allow you to really stick to your target. i see a lot of people saying rylais and i'm not sure why, does it proc off every hit of your q? i'm gonna say mallet should be better though, it gives you the same thing in regards of a slow, but his q scales better with ad, and ad is already the focus of this build. next you pick up titanic hydra. the item should be doing a good amount of damage at this point because of all the health in your build. last item could be a defensive item if you need it, maybe you will need more magires with this build, if you want more damage go triforce.

this is just a theory. i haven't tried this build in game but it seems like it would be decent.

Mortekaiser2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ezreal stinks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5GPAnjuv,comment-id=0028,timestamp=2015-08-22T07:22:29.650+0000)

item 3153 item 3742 item 3022 item 3748 item 3111 item 3078

why are people still posting their builds lol

just because you have a build that can work on him, does not qualify morde as a healthy champion now, nor does it mean he will be able to contribute in teamfights any more or less than he used to (hint: he contributes less in teamfights now than pre-rework)

becoming more polarizing by being even more anti-melee while being shit on even more by ranged IS NOT HEALTHY GAMEPLAY PEOPLE

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