Tiamat-reliant junglers feel terrible right now

Yenn··1 votes·1,079 views

The major problem is that clear EXP has been shifted to krugs and razorbeaks. Jungles without AoE in their kit struggle to/cannot safely clear these before Tiamat. This is primarily an Udyr and Shaco problem.

Playing Udyr feels absolutely horrible. In games with Diamond+ players, I'm at the mercy of the enemy jungle, because I can't healthily/safely clear Krugs or Razorbeaks for level 3.

If I'm starting at blue, I have to either go blue -> gromp -> wolves -> red for level 3. The stop at wolves opens a window for the enemy jungle to steal my red. If I skip wolves and go straight to red, I have to backtrack to wolves because I can't hit level 3 in either of the top side camps without decimating my health pool.

If I'm starting at red, I can go directly from red -> blue -> gromp -> wolves, but my wolves clear is incredibly slow because I run out of mana as the gromp dies, and I don't have enough to keep my passive stacked on wolves. I can start Talisman, but I'm unhealthy when I hit level 3 without the life steal.

Also, prior to completing Tiamat, I'm left with large periods of time where I have nothing to do but clear either Krugs or Razorbeaks; after which I cannot gank, because my health and mana are decimated, and these clears are always slower than they were pre-patch, as I'm always at a lower level than I would normally be. Before these jungle changes, I would have put pressure on lanes and soaked some XP from each while I wait for wolves and gromp to respawn, but I can no longer do this because I'm at a level disadvantage to all lanes until I finish my Tiamat; and even then, I'm virtually always at a level disadvantage to top and middle lane.

As a result of these problems, my level and gold throughout the entire match are significantly reduced from what they were pre-8.10, and it makes every game feel like an uphill battle. Even when I get first blood, I still struggle to remain relevant and keep up with the solo lanes. If I don't get any early kills, I just fall off into complete irrelevance, with no way to get back into the game.

Can we please get some change to reduce the burden on jungles whose kits lack viable AoE? Even a jungle item that builds from Tiamat would be amazing, because currently, it's a 1200 gold detour (and an entire item slot, I often don't have room for wards) from core items, just to be able to do something that the vast majority of junglers get for free as part of their kits.

p.s. someone is inevitably going to comment 'lol put a point in Phoenix as Udyr, ez problem solved.' This is not viable at higher ratings and destroys your early gank potential, which is critical for Udyr's success.

3 Comments

Azadethe1 votes

Um..... Udyr has Phoenix..... Shaco I understand..... but he usually gets a level 2 jungle kill to make up for it...

For what it's worth..... I'm pulling 9-12 CS/minute on Pyke with Tiamat in D II..... in jungle..... and people rage about his initial 16 second cooldowns...

My suggestion? Start item 1039 even if your champ suggests starting item 1041

The Burn from item 1039 counts toward its healing, so you can switch targets on those camps and get aoe -like sustain as it burns them.

I generally leave a Red > Krugs > Wraith cycle with Pyke with about 60% HP, and if I manage to still have a scuttle, I can full heal off it.

First back I get item 3077 and speed it up.

Udyr's felt like crap since Season 5.... after he was mutilate so many times bringing down his per hit burst, reducing his heals, etc..... and all the wall jumpers. Even LeeSin seems to counter Udyr now with all his buffs he didn't need to make up for ward loss.

needHymn1 votes

[deleted]

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

Don't rush Tiamat... the new jungle just doesn't support that play style anymore. Yes, get Tiamat, but not so rushed. Best to focus a little more on ganking and skuttle crabs for a few minutes, and get Tiamat whenever you get it, basically. But the whole thing of rush a full clear and get a 3-4 minute tiamat, those days are over now, but that doesn't mean you can't still bully the enemy jungler and win the fights at the skuttle, which Udyr should excel at right now, and then get Tiamat a little later than usual. Yea I know it sucks if you're whole thing previously was to rush Tiamat after one full clear, but that strategy is dead now.

This is only applicable to low rated (i.e. Bronze) games. There are no fights at scuttle, Diamond players know whether they can duel me. If they can't, they're going to skip scuttle and go elsewhere. If you don't rush Tiamat, your clear is so slow that you'll consistently be ~2 levels behind an enemy jungler with built in AoE.

Notice that I have 62% win rate as Udyr over 130 games at Diamond.

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