Jungles who can't clear krugs or raptors early should be compensated for the scuttle change

Yenn··6 votes·3,359 views

And by 'can't clear,' I mean they take significant damage, to the point they can't contest or gank after doing them.

If I do both buffs, gromp, and wolves, I'm left with ~20 seconds where I have nothing to do. At the same time, I need to do wolves to hit level 3, and I can't effectively gank at level 2 because I'm at a disadvantage to the solo lanes.

Because of this, my ganks are now 100% predictable in every game, and the down time ensures I have little chance of winning against opponents whose champions have AoE in their kits, because they gain a significant EXP advantage during my down time.

On top of that, I'm now forced to always start red if I'm on the top team, which makes my path also completely predictable.

If I try to start blue, I need to do both gromp and wolves before I go to my red. If the opponent knows I started blue, they can invade and steal my red while I'm at wolves, putting me at a massive disadvantage, because doing either of the top side camps will leave me too low to contest scuttle, after seeing my red is gone, aside from not being able to win duel without red. If I go straight to red without doing wolves, I have to backtrack for them, which is a huge loss of time and puts me at a disadvantage, similar to as if I had started red.

This change should not have happened.

17 Comments

FireDrizzle2 votes

If you start item 1039 on blue side you can cast a spell on birds and walk too red and regen a lot while you take red. Of course it can't be done by every champ.

Beerstein1 votes

Which champions do you struggle most with on Raptors?

Yenn2 votes

{quoted}

Which champions do you struggle most with on Raptors?

Anything that builds Tiamat gets shit on by raptors.

Udyr and Shaco are the most common.

XJ999999999999991 votes

{quoted}

Anything that builds Tiamat gets shit on by raptors.

Udyr and Shaco are the most common.

put a point into phoenix for udyr maybe so you can gain hp from them all?

and shaco? i guess just kite or avoid them.

Yenn2 votes

{quoted}

put a point into phoenix for udyr maybe so you can gain hp from them all?

and shaco? i guess just kite or avoid them.

Phoenix isn't viable unless you're playing in low elo and don't need to contest anything, You need tiger + bear + turtle in order to duel any opponent playing a meta champion or contest scuttle.

Galaxyburstz1 votes

But if your clearing raptors since scuttle hasn't spawned then what are you contesting? The honeyfruit lol

: D

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

But if your clearing raptors since scuttle hasn't spawned then what are you contesting? The honeyfruit lol

: D

The honeyfruit doesn't even spawn until much later. You're contesting both scuttles immediately after raptors.

Rank restricted forums when

Galaxyburstz1 votes

REd > Raptors > [ time gap ] wolves? blue? gromp? krugs? gank? invade? > scuttle

I'm very certain that some junglers will no contest scuttle immediately after raptors unless they have a specific route

Rank restricted forums when

hmmmmm?

XJ999999999999991 votes

{quoted}

Phoenix isn't viable unless you're playing in low elo and don't need to contest anything, You need tiger + bear + turtle in order to duel any opponent playing a meta champion or contest scuttle.

1 level into phenoix for the utility of hp/damage for Aoeing camps is probably not going to make/break if you plan on farming a lot.

Yenn2 votes

{quoted}

1 level into phenoix for the utility of hp/damage for Aoeing camps is probably not going to make/break if you plan on farming a lot.

If you're farming a lot and not abusing your strong early, which is literally the only good thing about Udyr, you've flat out lost the game or are playing in low MMR, in which case it doesn't matter, because your opponents aren't good enough to abuse the advantage they have, or likely even have enough game knowledge to know they have it.

The thigh guy3 votes

{quoted}

Which champions do you struggle most with on Raptors?

Any champion without an aoe on a 10 second or lower cooldown is going to lose both potion doses to clear raptors.

Illabethe1 votes

Nah. Just save your smite from Red/Krugs and use it on the big raptor after 1 skill. Substantially reduces the damage taken. Then auto attack up to 4 of them to get Hunter's healing you from multiple targets.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Nah. Just save your smite from Red/Krugs and use it on the big raptor after 1 skill. Substantially reduces the damage taken. Then auto attack up to 4 of them to get Hunter's healing you from multiple targets.

I guess. But that causes you the same problem on Krugs then. Unless you skip the mini ones, in which case you won’t get level 3 in the middle of the wolf camp, so you’re going to take even more damage from them.

Tbh jungle is just fucked. There’s no effective way for us to keep up into the late game, and our early game just got neutered for no real reason.

Illabethe1 votes

Krugs: You need to learn to use one krug to reduce the hits you take from other krugs. Large/Medium Krugs are large enough that if you orb around them, you can prevent hits from the other krugs. You can also pull them into a bush, and while they are running, you can reduce the hits you take as the run will hide you when entering bush.

A pro jungler can also reduce hits drastically simply by knowing their max auto attack range and resetting their attack position as soon as an attack activates, shortening the time between attacks, while reducing the hits taken. (You often have to do this on Red if your team doesn't leash you)

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Krugs: You need to learn to use one krug to reduce the hits you take from other krugs. Large/Medium Krugs are large enough that if you orb around them, you can prevent hits from the other krugs. You can also pull them into a bush, and while they are running, you can reduce the hits you take as the run will hide you when entering bush.

A pro jungler can also reduce hits drastically simply by knowing their max auto attack range and resetting their attack position as soon as an attack activates, shortening the time between attacks, while reducing the hits taken. (You often have to do this on Red if your team doesn't leash you)

Okay. Orb walk around Krugs. Now. What do you do when they split? You can’t orb walk more than 1 target. It possible to do consistently.

Also. Orb walking isn’t nearly as possible on any melee champion. Krugs ms isn’t that slow.

Illabethe1 votes

I do it on Pyke all the time.

I have a question. What jungler are you claiming has no aoe, and can't sustain/dps krugs?

Ambitious Minnow1 votes

Wht are you guys so obnoxious on this issue? It's a fact the jungle is optimized for junglers that start red side now, for exactly op listed reason. If you finish the whole blue jg, you still have to go to somewhere else to get level 3. You finish whole red side, boom you level 3 with three raptors to spare.

The gromp could take a small health buff and enough xp buff to get level 3 jg from blue side, effective jg pool would be drastically larger. This isn't champion strengths defining who plays jg, it's Riot arbitrarily choosing.

Facts. Objective. Undebatable.

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