so i was just in a game and i bought talisman of accession and ruby ss, merc treads, and righous glory and somehow it was my fault for losing when the mid fed and jungle fed ohh did i mention ashe was 4 and 0 in lane before she started dying....... why do people think you have to get relic shield on a "tank" supp. Ancient coin has by far better gold gain then relic shiled and ill take the 10% cd and better hp regen and mana regen and 500 hp instead of getting relic shield
Chamuel851 votesI agree. That and half the time your adc doesn't understand it and will not let you get CS or whine when you get the procs. Mids always just wave clear as fast as possible when it looks like you're going to go get yourself a proc. Relic shield passed 10 minutes is basically just the passive gold income. You get like 0 procs.
khorney1 votesohh i know this and not even 10% cdr so why are people getting it its useless. i did this becuase i figured why not giving people a engage or disenage is way better. but as the norm my team blames me saying first off you bought ancient coin and not relic shield im liek your such a noob not knowing items the best part when he said u didnt upgrade ss..........
Zach Sandwhich1 votesI think coin is the safest pick for EVERY support, but Relic is better for Melee/Tank supports, because of the minion execute, and the amazing shield that allows for some p clutch saves in my experience. (Support Main)
Edit: Also I really wouldn't build Sunfire/Abysall on support Naut, as they both are pretty selfish items that you could be building more utility to help your team. And relic is definitely a better choice on Naut/Leo as the tank stats are too good to pass up.
khorney1 votesdo your math before you talk. 1 coin has way bbetter gold gain then relic 2 it has better stats period. lets see better regen and cdr, all im losing is 300hp. but hte build i did here i lose nothing........ you need to learn items before you talk about stats. my secound point is me getting ruby lets me use talisman more often cause hey 20% cdr on items is pretty good. so please ancient coin is by far the better item relic shield you pretty much ahve 0 gold gain
Zach Sandwhich1 votesdo your math before you talk. 1 coin has way bbetter gold gain then relic 2 it has better stats period. lets see better regen and cdr, all im losing is 300hp. but hte build i did here i lose nothing........ you need to learn items before you talk about stats. my secound point is me getting ruby lets me use talisman more often cause hey 20% cdr on items is pretty good. so please ancient coin is by far the better item relic shield you pretty much ahve 0 gold gain
I didn't say coin didn't have better gold income, because that's the point of Coin. I said It's better on tanks Supports because you can make the most use of the health that Relic Provides along with the extra health from Ruby.
The point about sunfire and abysall still stands. They are selfish items that don't benefit as much utility wise as a more supportive item like Randuins, Locket, or Redemption, which provide shields, slows, or healing. The Spellthiefs line of items is also not good for tangier Supports, as you aren't spamming you abilities as much as a poke mage support.
khorney1 voteslet me explain what i do i always get frost queens then ruby ss becuase of the utility and no im not wasting time on redemtpion on naut...... neitehr is locket
Zach Sandwhich1 voteslet me explain what i do i always get frost queens then ruby ss becuase of the utility and no im not wasting time on redemtpion on naut...... neitehr is locket
Im not talking about Redemption on Nautilus, I don't think he would be good with it. And locket is a good item, maybe a bit weak after the aura and CDR removal, but still a good item. Im just saying that you, as the SUPPORT, should probably by less selfish items, like Abysall and Sunfire, and replace them with Team Oriented items, like Locket, Randuins, Knights Vow, Redemption if it applies to your champion, BoC, Mikaels. Something along those lines.
I also explained that with Tanky Supports aka Nautilus and Leona, that Relic is a better option since the stats are WAY better for them, as Leo and Naut don't really make much use of the CDR or Mana regen on either of the other two options. The Tank stats, combined with Ruby Sightstone, is just way too good to pass up (Mastery 7 Nautilus, Mastery 6 Leona). Also there are plenty of other ways to get CDR in a supports build such as:
, all of which are moderately good items right now!
khorney1 voteslvl 7 leo and naut here so let me explain it is by far better to do what i do instead of doing what your doing. face of the mountian isnt that good its to expsenive and is out shadowed by the fact that talisman is a good disenage and engage item. if you didnt get caught in the first place you wouldnt of died. the issue with your build is you have to build face of the mountian and ruby i dont have to if i dont want to and im still gaining 10% cdr and ss mana and hp regen and hp what are u gaining off the ss relic shield item ummm only hp and hp regen so contiue thinking that it sucks
Zach Sandwhich1 voteslvl 7 leo and naut here so let me explain it is by far better to do what i do instead of doing what your doing. face of the mountian isnt that good its to expsenive and is out shadowed by the fact that talisman is a good disenage and engage item. if you didnt get caught in the first place you wouldnt of died. the issue with your build is you have to build face of the mountian and ruby i dont have to if i dont want to and im still gaining 10% cdr and ss mana and hp regen and hp what are u gaining off the ss relic shield item ummm only hp and hp regen so contiue thinking that it sucks
You get 10% CDR off of FotM, and newsflash, all the support starting items cost the same in the end. If you buy Ruby SS and get a whopping 950 health without masteries. FotM can now also shield two people. Leona and Nautilus also have enough innate CC that if your struggling to keep up with people enough that you need to buy Frost Queens then you need to seriously practice landing skill shots.
Talisman is a good item, but it's simply better to get a RANDUINS like I said earlier to dive in, since that's what Leo and Naut are good at, and slow everyone in their team, or get a Righteous Glory, for the speed up and slow but at a loss of tank stats. Talisman and Frost Queens is good on more back Supports like Raka and Janna that either don't have a lot of innate Hard CC like Naut or Leo in Sorakas case, or ones who need that extra slow to land their hard CC IN Jannas case. This isn't a question of good or bad, it's just simply what's better.
khorney1 votesi do get rightous glory. and naut is differnt then leo becuase he needs postion leo and starigth up e to u. news flash you have to do that to get 10% i dont have to
Zach Sandwhich1 votesi do get rightous glory. and naut is differnt then leo becuase he needs postion leo and starigth up e to u. news flash you have to do that to get 10% i dont have to
You don't have to get the 10% no, but it's good for Supports like Leo and Naut so that they can spam their short CC spells such as Nautilus E and Leo's Q to get the most out of all their CC. Also Naut really does not require that much positioning, you can just ult the target in the back and chances are their team will get knocked up along with the target, allowing you to get close enough to root people with autos, use your E for a team wide slow, and auto for the root.
Leo is more of single target lockdown unless your a god at Leo and land a sweet 5 'man ulti stun. She dives onto a target with E, turns on W, Q, Ult, and whacks them with the passive on the Ult. If the target isn't dead by then you move out, wait for CDs and try again. CDR allows you to stay in however, since the Q is on a 3-4 second cooldown at max CDR, which is amazing in late game team fights.
Erockandroll1 votesdo your math before you talk. 1 coin has way bbetter gold gain then relic 2 it has better stats period. lets see better regen and cdr, all im losing is 300hp. but hte build i did here i lose nothing........ you need to learn items before you talk about stats. my secound point is me getting ruby lets me use talisman more often cause hey 20% cdr on items is pretty good. so please ancient coin is by far the better item relic shield you pretty much ahve 0 gold gain
Grants 4 gold and 5 health being near a minion death.
Grants 2 GP10, and the execute gives you minion gold + 15 HP to you and your Ally.
A minion wave spawns every 30 seconds. With coin, you earn 4 gold for each minion, which is about 24 per wave, and 30 health. (28, and 35 if it was a cannon wave.) With Relic shields passive, you may only proc it on average, once per wave if that. With the passive gold get you get 6 passively with each wave, (what's the going rate for melee minons? 20 gold?) that would give you 26 gold procing it on a melee, and 50+ each time you proc it on a cannon. And since the 15 HP is given to both parties, it's a total 30 HP gift in total for each time it's passive is procced.
Gold wise, I think they are close, so it should matter more about the stats the items give you. Though I will point out that Relic shield is the less greedy choice. As part of it's stat value is shared with your ADC.
6 gold 10 health
40 HP and kill gold. (passive gold gens the same) recharges every 30 seconds.
Now your more apt to get at least one proc each minion wave with the first upgrade. This increases the passive's up time by about a third. Which coincidentally is how much of an increase the medallion got. 4->6 gold per minion kill. However, HP gen from Targons increases from 15 to 40, for both you and your partner, a total regen of 80 HP. While Medalion will only offer you 60 HP per minion wave (70 on a cannon wave)
The way I see it, the Relic line improves after the first upgrade, but the difference isn't that far off. But again, the healing on Coin is the greedy option as it only grants HP to you and not your ADC, which can be a problem if your support champ doesn't otherwise have sustain. (Most tank supports don't) The other issue is that the "Near a minion Death" pretty much binds you to lane, it's the poorest possible option if you wanted to roam.
khorney1 votesif youre talkign abotu greed every supp should get this item is what your saying. seeing i get 7 gold every cs that is killed and after laning youll never get stacks off period. gold wise they are not even close 1 cs every 60 secs till you get targons meanwhile im still gaing gold. only way the gold increases for more is if you have gold income runes which i do on my janna page and i get frost queens due ot the fact they removed the passive gold on it. and getting a extraq 8 gold every 10secs is pretty good.
Aptest1 votesrelic shield, for me, is when i cant stop the pain train from coming in so i need a big, fat shield for the noob that got caught.
coin is when the minighost as more value.