Daily reminder that Ardent Censer is an overloaded bullshit item

waiting for WoW·Aug 19, 2017·38 votes·2,571 views

And that a game should not be decided by who can rush it the fastest or which team manages to draft the top tier supports that can abuse it the hardest.

46 Comments

Tribbles FoxfolkAug 19, 201717 votes

Daily reminder that Ardent Censer used to be reviled and loathed for being a waste of a slot. They should make it a good scaling item that starts off pretty mediocre.

ThefrostyvikingAug 19, 20173 votes

Because people were shortsighted and silly to not realize the potential of this item.

Altho i am fairly sure some other items were wastly more OP at the time censer first came around which made it look worse than it was.

But most of us realized that, giving a AA focused champ 20-30% extra attackspeed and some heals every few seconds by giving them a barrier/heal isn't exactly something you can look down on. '

I am fairly sure i saw a kog+ lulu the very same day and lulu got the item as quickly as she could, i made a point of remembering that since it was strong then already.

Wasn't it even nerfed from like 35% to 10-15% extra attackspeed just a few weeks after release? Then buffed to a scaling 20-30%?

Those who played marksmen and supports always knew this item to be a good one.

flibitydooAug 20, 20174 votes

I play supports

I know you're dead wrong about censer being OP first time.

to begin with ardent censer originally did not give on-hit magic damage nor did it give heal per auto when it was first released. it just gave attackspeed. (personally back then I thought it would have been a great item if instead of attackspeed it gave movespeed to any heal/shield but I digress)

which, because of that underwhelming attackspeed stat bonus it made ardent be reviled and loathed for being a waste of a slot.

for 2 seasons it was basically a dead item and no one built it.

then they gave it some on-hit dmg and still no one built it. I don't even think people knew it gained that damage.

then in season 6 transition to season 7 they updated support items like they always do (support/jungle rework happens friggin every pre-season) and added shield/healing power to the game and also gave it some on-hit healing. this was the point where the item wasn't a "bad item", but it wasn't as good as redemption (which was also introduced to the game). and y'know, redemption+locket literally dominated the game as THE support item. I think I was one of the few (since i play raka a lot) who was trying to be contrarian to our lord and saviour redemption and tried out ardent and noticed how my friendly xayah with botrk was able to draintank a lot of damage (well, drain tank and receive healing every 2 seconds). like legit 3 months ago I made a comment regarding the sustain.

later on they buffed the on-hit healing/dmg/attackspeed to become a scaling amount based on level. This was where it really started to pick up.

and the current PBE suggests nerfing the attackspeed/healing.

Currently, in game ardent right now beats out the other heal/shield power stat items due to the fact that if your carry attacks once it's already given as much healing as any +10% heal shield power, and if they auto more than that (which of course they will) it easily dwarfs the healing from other items. Redemption "competes" but it also has a cooldown which meanas downtime and unlike ardent won't be functionally up for every fight to make an impact.

mikaels is a different story and I cannot give a good opinion on (because of bias). Again, I play raka, and mikaels if you didn't know gives 20% heal/shield power instead of the usual 10% that the other big items provide which works extremely well with raka which completely skews how I see this item. MIkaels also provides no healing on it's active (used to be iirc a 10% max health restore) but provides a cleanse+slow immunty and you get 40% movespeed during that slow immunity if it actually purges an effect. oh and also mikaels gives a ton of regen stats including the chalice out of combat thing which also works really well with raka if not being literally designed around her kit.

ThefrostyvikingAug 20, 20171 votes

It wasn't a waste though, rather it was extremely champion specific at the start.

30% attackspeed early for kog was devestating to play against, that is why i think i remember it so well, and i really am fairly sure it was nerfed for being too strong.

It was also good on trist and twitch at the time, but both were unpopular thus it didn't see a lot of light.....kog was never very well known either.

I mean that the item was built by the supports for specific champs...clarification is important.....

I mean, after his rework he was played as a jungler x)

but after the nerfs where it lost like half the attackspeed bonus i think it would make sense no one built it, ever, probably.

Then the redemption+locket happened and ardent changes.

But you are right tho, locket and Redemption were the two stars that caused most to fail to notice the censer creeping upwards x)

As for myself, i play mainly sona for ~~Death is the best CC~~ ability to help her team with various buffs as well as ultimate.

######Totally haven't repeatedly played her mainly AP to kill enemy carries by means of sheer frustration.

Praetor NotoriasAug 20, 20171 votes

If you built it with Alistar before they made it champion only it'd also buff the minions and could get a little obnoxious. It was one of those aura items with invisible power. It still is. It's rare to lose a game when you build it because team's usually are trying out shoot the others rather than outlive and this is a force multiplier (like x1.3 a rough guess) of anyone you can shield (which is everyone since you can build a locket with it).

ThefrostyvikingAug 20, 20171 votes

It grants the buffs to ALL allies that you heal/shield though?

I love it for sona because of it, her W makes it so easy to keep it up nearly permanently on several people whilst Janna gives her chosen target a near permanent one.

....Nerfs are in order x)~~~~

Praetor NotoriasAug 22, 20171 votes

Not all since it excludes yourself, but the other 4. I dunno about their pets, probably not unless they are classified as a champion (thinking of Yorick's ult).

ThefrostyvikingAug 22, 20172 votes

Ah details, sona can't make any good use of the attackspeed anyway x)

Not to mention all the top marksmen have godlike synergy with the item, and a number of the divers and skirmishers too.

Praetor NotoriasAug 22, 20171 votes

She's not a good support pick unless you're just bored. Her lack of CC and peel make her damage her only denial of area ability and good warding, a little magic resist, and pop goes the Sona. Ardent censer is a difficult item to get on her because a redemption would be waaaaay better unless your team just happens to be auto-attack focused. But otherwise you're better off building her like a lux "support" except you get a sightstone and then your purpose becomes stun some people, spam 3 abilities auto attack and then probably die or try to soak an ult.

But the only reason you'd get censer on Sona is to push towers and objectives. She's the queen of that. Getting an ace and then pushing multiple towers is about the only thing you hope for when you play her like that. Taking baron and dragon is super easy with her around. She's also a good pick against yasuo and malzahar since she'll pop their shield for free basically. But otherwise she's outclassed by almost every other support.

ThefrostyvikingAug 22, 20171 votes

The reason you´d get censer on Sona is the same as all the others, empower your AA focused marksman-

Redemption is great though. it´s just that i rarely find myself able to use it because when someone dies they usually do it in a second and very suddenly, i´ve lost track of times i tried activating it beforehand only to still see it miss.

Using it to heal poke damage outside teamfights is fine i guess but i still prefer censer to it´s ability to just make your ADC that much stronger, it nearly an entire items worth of stats for them.

I dunno, i feel that her heal and E can have great impact in the game along with her ulti, and Q is excellent poke in lane altho one has to be very careful doing it.

And i actually use her passive a lot.

Praetor NotoriasAug 23, 20171 votes

If they are dying in a second and very suddenly then that's probably why you shoulda been a support with some peel.

ThefrostyvikingAug 23, 20171 votes

Can't peel ranged stuff nor when they overextended and start fights 1v3.

Except with braum.....

If it´s just a single assassin or diver then it´s simple to handle "even" with Sona.

Miku Hime samaAug 22, 20175 votes

Too bad that's a melee-range ability and Sona is the squishiest character in League. Not to mention, just an unplayable character overall...

ThefrostyvikingAug 22, 20171 votes

Melee range? It's short caster range rather, and coupled with a near permanent speed buff and a powerful stun she is perfectly capable of standing a short distance behind her frontliners most of the time without ever having to worry about getting caught since catching up to her is far from easy.

And how in the world is Sona unplayable? She is counted as the third or even second best enchanter which also happens to be the strongest/ most generally viable support as of now.

She is the more aggressive version of janna essentially, inferior peel but better damage enhancements, wombo potential and her W is a spammable heal/barrier on a low CD.

Just how did you arrive at the conclusion that she is unplayable?

Miku Hime samaAug 22, 20173 votes

Yes, melee-range. Perhaps not the embarrassing 350 units she had before (Fearless factually wanted it to be 300 fucking units), but 450 is exactly on that borderline between melee and ranged. For your information, most auto-modifiers factually increases a champion's range. Ignoring Rengar's 725-range "melee" attack, the longest auto-range for a melee attack is 425 units, just half the radius of a Teemo shorter than Sona's THREE spells. Meanwhile, there are only 3.5 ranged champs in the ENTIRE game with shorter than 450-units (mini-Gnar counting as .5 in this case.) All 3.5 of those champs are tanky or build hard tank, yet Sona is the squishiest character in League. Having said that, let's not forget the shortest-range support spell after ALL THREE of Sona's spells is 500 units and literally every other spell in the support class is 550+. The fact Sona has not one, but THREE below 550 is actually absurd.

Fact is, Sona is unplayable. Her damage is the lowest of all supports. Her mitigation is the lowest of all mitigation supports. She completely lacks pre-6 CC. She's immobile AND is the lowest base MS in the game, in spite of this. Her ult is one of the weakest in the game. She's arguably the squishiest character in League. Sona has NO redeeming qualities and literally doesn't exist in high Diamond+ as a direct result of patch 4.13. Every Sona main fell an average of 4 ranks due to her unplayability. Well over 90% of her pre-4.13 playerbase has abandoned her or this game as a result. Her #1 player in the world has been HIGHLY VOCAL about how blatantly unplayable Sona is:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/miJA52mr-can-someone-please-explain-why-sona-is-getting-even-more-nerfs-and-her-q-will-do-160-damage

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/nVF6Es62-so-when-can-the-community-stop-kidding-itself-and-admit-sona-was-way-way-overnerfed

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/lGqOpxEQ-sona-was-overnerfed-and-now-has-a-38-50-win-ratio-in-real-elo

Meanwhile, another in the top 4 of Sona players worldwide concurred, having this to say:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/NJ72rEpB-4k-sona-games-master-tiers-perspective-of-53-sona

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/2n8M8JVj-riot-fearless-what-was-sona-made-for

...and 1 more in the top 4 has been vocal as well, if memory is correct. Though I don't think he made a thread, he spoke out in many others' threads.

I think I'd rather listen to my own common sense and the common sense of MULTIPLE players in the top 4 WORLDWIDE than some rando who can't even be bothered to check the numbers on her kit. (Hint: they're shit)

Praetor NotoriasAug 22, 20172 votes

Your numbers are actually pretty false. Given your rage you could at least look at the numbers yourself.

Hymn of Valor - effect radius 850 Aria of Perseverance Effect Radius: 1000 Song of Celerity - point blank

1000 is waaaaay outside of melee range.

If you were referencing her Aura passive, that's irrelevant compared to the ardent censor. I'm unaware of it even having a range since Soraka's global heal can proc it on basically everyone.

ThefrostyvikingAug 22, 20171 votes

Riot means point blank as directly centered on Sona i think, 350 is probably the actual distance from the edge back to Sona i´d guess.

Miku Hime samaAug 23, 20172 votes

Sona doesn't use auras. Sona hasn't had auras since they were removed in patch 4.13, they were replaced with lingering actives.
OBVIOUSLY I am referring to the lingering actives, to think or claim otherwise is intentional ignorance.
Hymn of Valor's listed range on the League site is incorrect. Its ACTUAL range is 700 units, BUT it's champion-priority range is only 550 units.

I know Sona's numbers off-hand better than 90% of her playerbase. As I just proved, I'm even aware of the inconsistencies, unlisted numbers and numerous shadow nerfs which you won't find listed on any Rito site (hence why they're shadow nerfs.)

Praetor NotoriasAug 23, 20171 votes

You quote uncheckable stats while proclaiming your own self worth... I smell a narcissist.

ThefrostyvikingAug 22, 20171 votes

What?

According to leaguegraphs sona enjoys a 11% popularity in diamond, op.gg claim a 9,83% in plati and above in korea and lolking states that it's 9,5%

10% is far from bad?

OP.gg claims janna is played 20% in games of plati and above. lolking claims 13% popularity and leagegraphs states 20%.

Only support that's played more than Sona but less than Janna is Soraka who is about 1-3% over Sona in popularity depending on which site you look at.

Do tell me, how is the third most picked support possibly even half as bad as you claim? How can she maintain a 54% winrate just 2% under janna?

You are arguing against an uphill of statistical facts good Sir/lady, and the high elo mains statements are worth nothing if even the general community is making it work. It's even a bit embarrassing to see them claim her to be so bad despite her obvious success.

Current Sona fits well into the game, more boring or not. that depends on personal preference.

And in what world is her ulti bad too?! It has a outrageous mana cost but it´a good powerful stun that's also very quick and hard to avoid which is priceless against the amount of existing mobility.

sykinoAug 22, 20171 votes

Power cord W is almost an exhaust. Power cord E is a 40% slow. You're one of those psycho's who wants their favorite champ to have 4 stuns on their E and 250% ap Scaling on Q.

SalronAug 20, 20173 votes

It's almost like they buffed it or something Not to mention it also had to compete with Redemption in its prime

The DeckownerAug 20, 20171 votes

Daily reminder that when Ardent was considered crap, Redemption Locket was completely broken, and Rito continuously buffed Ardent while nerfed.the other two.

Mister DarkAug 22, 20171 votes

Maybe the same thing will happen to item 3222 i mean when was the last time you saw this item used?

NoPaxtAug 19, 201710 votes

Stop building item 3165 and I won't build item 3504 ... Fair?

Pommel KnightAug 20, 20179 votes

Then give us other mana options and we won't. Until then we are taking these items from you item 3109 item 3107 item 3050 item 3190

Also you can give us this back. item 3174

Ariel the CruelAug 20, 20172 votes

We want item 3092 and item 3401 lines' usefullness reverted back to PreSeason 4 values. WITHOUT everyone and their Grandma Warwick abusing and getting them gutted [again].

We also want the heal added back on to item 3222 .

Reverting that bad joke Riot called "support scaling" would is also on the table.

Mighty MorteinAug 20, 20174 votes

Remember the days where you were practically flamed for buying it? Lmao. Now it's the strongest support items on enchanters.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 19, 20173 votes

Hopefully so, cause any time I don't rush that item my ADC just baby rages for the rest of the game telling me how he could've or would've if they had ardent blah blah blah

Pretty boring rushing it now, It's meant to be a late game power house item but it's simply too good for what it does.

I am D1nzuAug 19, 20173 votes

yet people in my real elo (Plat 2) never buy that shit cuz they think Needlessly large rod or Dead mans plate is better

;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

pixelvoxelAug 20, 20174 votes

Your Sona is trying her best.

Tails9016Aug 20, 20171 votes

Donger support*

Ariel the CruelAug 20, 20172 votes

* Brand support

GrReaper96Aug 20, 20171 votes

*Teemo support

Miku Hime samaAug 22, 20173 votes

If she were "trying" her best, she would've had Sona removed from her account. Champ hasn't been playable since 4.13

Support PositionAug 20, 20173 votes

item 3190 item 3107 you seem like one of the people that RUINED support as a class. And make us even more of a rarity. [zombie-brand-clap]

Have fun with EVEN MORE auto full.

God RaijinAug 19, 20172 votes

and its getting nerfed next patch. Soooo yeah.....

waiting for WoWAug 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=God Raijin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZiBNXVO7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-19T21:24:24.380+0000)

and its getting nerfed next patch. Soooo yeah.....

It's actually getting a 5% attack speed buff super early which is when it has the most impact in the game, during lane.

MistroTTCAug 19, 20172 votes

You dont start the game with it so its a nerf even early when you get it unless you get super fed early.

KurisutinaMakiseAug 20, 20172 votes

they think janna and taric are the problem more so taric imo tanks are abusive in any team comp if on a team with smart carrys tbh but w/e riot knows best thats why my que times grew and no i havent gotten better at the game for longer que times to happen lol

Miku Hime samaAug 22, 20171 votes

My ping is DOUBLE what it used to be pre-Chicago move, but clearly I must be imagining things, because a Ritoer directly told me there'd be literally NO DIFFERENCE in ping. Rito. Fucking. Logic.

Rito doesn't care about honesty. They're known to be habitual liars; saying whatever is most convenient for themselves at the time, no matter how absurd.

FairyfleurAug 20, 20172 votes

So why exactly do you think it's broken?

Snake PrinceAug 19, 20171 votes

yes it is broken ,yes it needs to be removed from this game . Adc need their own life steal item so they can't rush crits for free and still sustain like they had a BT