But don't let that stop the "OMG SONA GUTTED" circle jerk that continuously upvote each other's threads and posts because only being 53%+ will satisfy them. I mean I might've acted like a spoiled baby like that to if Riot let my champion sit at 54% for 12 months and I forgot what it's like to play a champion in an actual balanced or normal/mediocre state to.
D357R0Y3R10 votesI don't know about other Sona mains opinions, neither do i know how Sona is doing in low elo
but i just know that right now Sona is a 4v6 for her team in high elo, there is no way for her to avoid the enemy team abusing her kit so easily due to her lack of self defense and high mana costs unlike other enchanters
which is why i don't know when riot is going to give her a rework
Azadethe4 votesI don't know about other Sona mains opinions, neither do i know how Sona is doing in low elo
but i just know that right now Sona is a 4v6 for her team in high elo, there is no way for her to avoid the enemy team abusing her kit so easily due to her lack of self defense and high mana costs unlike other enchanters
which is why i don't know when riot is going to give her a rework
You. Don't. Poke. In higher elo. You just heal and pick up mana/gold nodes. At least early game. Late game, you make her tanky with a moderate amount of AP (300+) Then she's fine.
They Punish you because you're trying to Q poke. Which is very low range.
D357R0Y3R25 votes300 ap is not a moderate amount lol...
and even then if you just want to heal don't pick Sona, Nami is way better for that because she doesn't need 300 ap while she also brings safety, agression, low mana costs, and hard cc on a basic spell!
https://i.gyazo.com/68e36e97ab3a20e4a485bf6ed5cedd2f.png
have a good day sir!
Azadethe6 votes300 ap is not a moderate amount lol...
and even then if you just want to heal don't pick Sona, Nami is way better for that because she doesn't need 300 ap while she also brings safety, agression, low mana costs, and hard cc on a basic spell!
https://i.gyazo.com/68e36e97ab3a20e4a485bf6ed5cedd2f.png
have a good day sir!
300 AP is EASY on sona, especially on meta builds. Her average is actually more like 440.
Btw, Nami doesn't have several things Sona has: Aoe Barrier. Reliable TEAM boosting. Reliable TEAM Movement speed. Reliable Team Proc of Censer. Push button proc of Athene's (She has to point and Click). She also doesn't have an instant aoe Stun (Bubble takes .78 sec to land, much smaller area).
For what it's worth, I play Both. You Also build Nami AP, or her kit suffers (Passive is wimpy on actives, damage is wimpy on actives, doesn't get around near as much).
I'm also around 70% win on both :), and have been for 4 seasons.
D357R0Y3R12 votesuh but sona stun is far from being instant... and while all your boosts as sona are reliable, it becomes unreliable once you know Sona is the easiest target for everyone
and 300 ap is not a moderate amount no matter what, you still have to invest a lot to get it while also being useless before you got that!
Azadethe2 votesuh but sona stun is far from being instant... and while all your boosts as sona are reliable, it becomes unreliable once you know Sona is the easiest target for everyone
and 300 ap is not a moderate amount no matter what, you still have to invest a lot to get it while also being useless before you got that!
You need 3 items to 300 AP a Sona or Nami. Worth a total of 9100g.
TeCoolMage15 votesUmm even for mid mages that's not true. The average item for them is 80 AP.
Unless you go Rabadon's + Ardent + Lich bane maybe? Or you can go for an extremely expensive carry build with Dcap + Luden's + morello (no clue why you wouldn't take ardent/lich, and take morello on a support build unless you had transcendence)
AirKingNeo11 votesWhat world does Sona even reach 300 AP in the game?
35 + 60 + 0 + 0 + 30 + 70 (athene's passive) equals 195. Not even close.
Provengreil2 votesMy typical full Sona build is 
(obviously not in that order). All you gotta do is land a double hit ultimate OR save your carry with it, hit Q so those things die fast, and then steamroll the teamfight since AP buffs literally her entire kit. Since her entire kit buffs the entire team, every point of AP she gets buff the ENTIRE TEAM. it's worth looking like a mid player to get there.
I used to run gold runes to get it....kleptomancy doesn't quite match up to those over the course of the game, especially when you walk to remote spots and ward a lot.
AirKingNeo2 votesSona doesn't build Ludens, Lich, or Deathcap.
chipndip11 votesWhat world does Sona even reach 300 AP in the game?
35 + 60 + 0 + 0 + 30 + 70 (athene's passive) equals 195. Not even close.
Gathering Storm + Tear in your build + Absolute Focus + that Locket should be a Crucible.
AirKingNeo1 votesGathering useless you mean?
chipndip15 votesGathering useless you mean?
Highest ranked Sona player uses it on Sona, so no, I mean Gathering Storm.
Provengreil4 votesyeah, as soon as games lengthen again it'll be a top notch option for sona
Azadethe3 votesWhat world does Sona even reach 300 AP in the game?
35 + 60 + 0 + 0 + 30 + 70 (athene's passive) equals 195. Not even close.
+ or 
or 
Easily trumps your build in win rate, utility, heals, and damage.
It Hertz When IP2 votesNo sightstone, gg.
Azadethe5 votes[{quoted}](name=It Hertz When IP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LZTr84b4,comment-id=0000000000000000000100020000,timestamp=2017-12-09T18:20:14.308+0000)
No sightstone, gg.
Sightstone honestly is something you have to weigh based on the team you are facing, and your ability to control them. Talisman of Ascension is always a better choice when you can control the game through quick team snowballs, and players demonstrate the ability to safe path. Sightstone is a better choice when you have an assassin threat roaming and potentially dominating your team.
Nothing really counters a Sona or Nami with Talisman double move speed boosting for overcapped team move speed to run over the other team and take a lane. If you can keep 90% of the game's fights in a lane, you don't need wards NEAR as much as jungle, and honestly most stray nub kills/deaths happen because a support went roaming into a warded jungle to ward.
I have a 71% win rate almost never building a Sightstone. Maybe that should tell you something. 71% in 4 years without buying an item isn't just "being carried by your team."
KevinSpacey9993 votesSightstone honestly is something you have to weigh based on the team you are facing, and your ability to control them. Talisman of Ascension is always a better choice when you can control the game through quick team snowballs, and players demonstrate the ability to safe path. Sightstone is a better choice when you have an assassin threat roaming and potentially dominating your team.
Nothing really counters a Sona or Nami with Talisman double move speed boosting for overcapped team move speed to run over the other team and take a lane. If you can keep 90% of the game's fights in a lane, you don't need wards NEAR as much as jungle, and honestly most stray nub kills/deaths happen because a support went roaming into a warded jungle to ward.
I have a 71% win rate almost never building a Sightstone. Maybe that should tell you something. 71% in 4 years without buying an item isn't just "being carried by your team."
Not building sightstone on a supp is detrimental to both the team and yourself. Not only are u not providing vision for fights, but you are also losing objectives for not warding. Without vision, the enemy team can easily pick u off especially in this meta.
Azadethe1 votesNot building sightstone on a supp is detrimental to both the team and yourself. Not only are u not providing vision for fights, but you are also losing objectives for not warding. Without vision, the enemy team can easily pick u off especially in this meta.
Again, it depends on the team you are vs. A Sightstone is actually detrimental to having a support keep up to team and be a contributor other than a ward bot in some games. Having a Censer and an Athene's 800+ G earlier results in hard snowballs more than a little wards for a bad adc does. Being able to temporarily get your team to 660-700 Move speed hard snowballs them more.
I know it may be a foreign concept to you, but not all adcs/junglers should be going places where you need wards. Also, when an entire team builds Duskblade, extra wards are just more gold.
There's a reason i carry 70+ % win rates and also get 60-70% Kill participation. Part of it's choosing what's best for a specific game.
KevinSpacey9992 votes300 AP is EASY on sona, especially on meta builds. Her average is actually more like 440.
Btw, Nami doesn't have several things Sona has: Aoe Barrier. Reliable TEAM boosting. Reliable TEAM Movement speed. Reliable Team Proc of Censer. Push button proc of Athene's (She has to point and Click). She also doesn't have an instant aoe Stun (Bubble takes .78 sec to land, much smaller area).
For what it's worth, I play Both. You Also build Nami AP, or her kit suffers (Passive is wimpy on actives, damage is wimpy on actives, doesn't get around near as much).
I'm also around 70% win on both :), and have been for 4 seasons.
First of all, it looks like you have only been playing for on season. I'm not telling you what to build but when you are building over 300 ap as a supp, just play mid. Unless you are insanely fed as sona, I would suggest getting locket, ardent etc and not rabadons. Same goes with nami. Her base on her abilities really don't scale well with ap and ur better off playing a champ that actually does well with lots of ap.
Ps. 75% Winrate on 4 games really isn't a great sample size for sona. Nor is your 68% Winrate on nami over 14 games
Azadethe1 votesFirst of all, it looks like you have only been playing for on season. I'm not telling you what to build but when you are building over 300 ap as a supp, just play mid. Unless you are insanely fed as sona, I would suggest getting locket, ardent etc and not rabadons. Same goes with nami. Her base on her abilities really don't scale well with ap and ur better off playing a champ that actually does well with lots of ap.
Ps. 75% Winrate on 4 games really isn't a great sample size for sona. Nor is your 68% Winrate on nami over 14 games
You apparently don't read. I've been playing since Season 4 and I have 5 accounts. I have 3.2 million Karma mastery between them, 3.72 million Nami Mastery, and 1.1 Million Sona Mastery between Seasons.
This specific account has played Evelynn more than anything. Which is why it's not Plat.
LightIsMyPath11 votesTo be fair Nami has abnormous mana costs too if you only want to stay back and heal..
Daddy Ants22 votes300 ap is not a moderate amount lol...
and even then if you just want to heal don't pick Sona, Nami is way better for that because she doesn't need 300 ap while she also brings safety, agression, low mana costs, and hard cc on a basic spell!
https://i.gyazo.com/68e36e97ab3a20e4a485bf6ed5cedd2f.png
have a good day sir!
Nami's heal is 130 mana maxed.
She has like 8-900 mana late game.
How is that "low mana costs"
KlydeFrog1 votesalso nami can out heal her depending on her ap and ebb and flow. more ap the more heal you do due to you not losing any but gaining on each bounce
notice me Sin pi2 votesand even then if you just want to heal don't pick Sona, Nami is way better for that because...(skip) low mana costs
The only time I can actually spam heal as nami late game is if i've been stacking tear or team lets me have blue buff.
TEA Nietzsche 3 votesSo Sona has a 6% winrate and a 49.6% winrate in Diamond while having a really inexperienced playerbase as can be seen by the mained by stat - and THAT is reason for you to complain? That constitutes a "4v6" for you?
That is the type of complaint I hate the most on the boards. It's always these entitled people who main something that averages 53%+ winrate over three years and they ALWAYS come crying when the champion ''''''drops'''''' to ~50%.
Janna. Ahri. Sona. Get outta here.
Yets42401 votesADCs, Yasuo, the list is quite large. Riven, Ahri, Yas and Lee have the most annoying fanboys imho. Can't have them being anything less than 100% the best in their role, and for at least 1 lane, or they will bitch to anyone who will listen about how difficult the champs are and how weak they are as well.
TEA Nietzsche 1 votesSure, there are plenty annoying fanbases but that's not what I am talking about.
I was referring to people who main a generally strong champion with a super high winrate and start complaining when the winrate drops to 'average'.
RedCyclone6 votesWell what you just said, you told "DONT DO ANYTHING", and honesty that may be the right call with Sona
Don't you think it's an issue when your role for the first 20 mins is "DONT FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING OR YOU WILL DIE, JUST DO NOTHING" Talk about making Sona feel terrible to play, this is just sad
Daedric Etwahl3 votesThis is my biggest issue, honestly. I'm not upset about her winrate, I'm upset about bow trash she feels early. If Riot took a bit away from her lategame, helped out her early, while still achieving a 50-51% wr, that would be fantastic.
But seriously, instead we get people telling me to do fuck all in lane, basically, and just play poor man's Soraka when it comes to healing.
They say you need to take Ancient Coin. I fucking despise using Ancient Coin, why do I need to be railroaded into taking certain items and runes if I want to play League of Legends for the first 15 minutes of the game?
DemonBoneJangles10 votesthere needs to be an understanding here sona might have the highest winrate of the champions you've mentioned however.
You stated yourself its been 3 days, not long enough for changes in playstyle or buffs and nerfs to show their full effects. you left out other enchanter supports, janna, and nami, janna has a .1% winrate above Sona and nami is only .5% behind sona
Of lulu, nami, soraka, karma, janna, and sona. Sona has the lowest popularity with only 1.8% of people playing her regularly, while again of those mentioned lulu is the most popular and most banned enchanter support.
of all this yes the changes were unfair to sona players, because she does lack what a lot of enchanters have, the ability to survive in teamfights however the nerfs were indeed reasonable given the new rune system making it very easy for her to overcome her mana usage and sustain weakness. I in no way defend or single out sona mains nor am I one myself (she is a good choice however in lower elos where people don't think of her unaimed abilities)
that said the simple fact you claim this is a circlejerk just because its about sona is nonsense because when nothing else is around to complain about yasuo is the circlejerk king on the boards
StoryDuck10 votesYou're tackling this in the wrong direction. You shouldn't be grumpy that people are upset that Sona is being nerfed. You should be upset that Karma, Lulu, and Soraka are not getting buffs. Also, in higher Elo Sona's winrate is sub 50% atm. I don't feel Lulu really needs buffs as buffing her is a dangerous thing to do due to her amazingly difficult to balance kit but Karma and Soraka could certainly use some love.
Feel Apathy7 votesProblem with 
is that she's balanced around 5v5 teamfights which is fine on its own until you get the hint that:
If you lose lane- you're giving a huge lead with the first tower If you lose the first tower, bot side - you're probably giving dragon & east side jungle control as well. Afterwards when the enemy swaps, you're giving up herald and everything spirals out of control.
I'm honestly baffled how 
has a low winrate when she's absurd to play against after the early stage, speed boost, huge shields, unable to be killed with proper itemisation. Once you leave the lane which is usually 51-49 as you can group with your jungler and look for picks 24-7, boosting him with shields & MS and rooting/slowing the enemy.
is also solid with MS & AS boosts while slowing and shielding allies, to note that both she and karma are very good 2v2/3v3 fighters, where as Sona is nowhere near close in those scenarios which are happening frequently in every game.
I've had no success with, you're either towerdived by 4 people or lose teamfights due to lack of damage and real help outside the ult + silence field.
Miku Append5 votesProbably because people prefer to play Sona over the others...
An Enemy Sutando2 votesI can name TWO, ROUND, BIG, FIRM reasons why.
xxxDogmanxxx1 votes
and 
do not appreciate your bald jokes.
An Enemy Sutando1 votesDamn, you found me out.
Nymzo4 votesI think the big problem people that hate Sona have yet to realize is the only problemaic part of her kit is her q. W and E are kinda of weak and her passif is mostly use with her Q.
Hell her auras weren't that big of an issue especially now with that ult is way less bigger than old Sona's (at least in my opinion).
Her Q could easily have been fix in her ''rework'' but they change everything EXCEPT the only problematic part.
ZephyrDrake3 votesI think the big problem people that hate Sona have yet to realize is the only problemaic part of her kit is her q. W and E are kinda of weak and her passif is mostly use with her Q.
Hell her auras weren't that big of an issue especially now with that ult is way less bigger than old Sona's (at least in my opinion).
Her Q could easily have been fix in her ''rework'' but they change everything EXCEPT the only problematic part.
ok what part of her Q is the problem? tell me. You cannot choose who it targets, it's always the closest enemies which more often than not means tanks. Her Q does 160 max base damage with the rest of the power behind her being able to auto someone. Her Q scaling is 50% which is average to below average, sure her auto part also has some below average scaling...
If people only use her passive on her Q then that just tells me that they have no idea how to play Sona. Someone is diving you or your ADC? W + passive is way more impactful than Q + passive. E + passive is way better when chasing and when being chased. Q + passive is great for poking while depending on the situation W or Q would be more impactful in teamfights
Nymzo1 votesok what part of her Q is the problem? tell me.
It's a spell that you cannot dodge, making laning against her hell unless you have Nami or Soraka or you managed to snowball on her. And yes while the spell itself isn't all that strong, that with the passif Q is strong.
However as i tried to explain, her q is both a blessing and a curse since as you saw, it takes so much of her power budget. Even Riot had to nerf her W even more because her laning phase is oppressing.
Not to mention that she has to buy (most of the time) which is a strange item to buy to on an ENCHANTER.
You cannot choose who it targets, it's always the closest enemies which more often than not means tanks. Her Q does 160 max base damage with the rest of the power behind her being able to auto someone. Her Q scaling is 50% which is average to below average, sure her auto part also has some below average scaling...
Again, the main issue of her q is how strong it is in the laning phase. Yes it may not be as strong later, but in the laning phase it will surely hit a key target. Hell I think her strong laning phase is the only reason why she isn't at like 40% winrate since it all about the early game right now. The rest doesn't really matter if your opponents are behind.
If people only use her passive on her Q then that just tells me that they have no idea how to play Sona. Someone is diving you or your ADC? W + passive is way more impactful than Q + passive. E + passive is way better when chasing and when being chased. Q + passive is great for poking while depending on the situation W or Q would be more impactful in teamfights
I said mostly, mostly doesn't mean all of the time. Yes the other two have some use but about 75% of the time, you WILL use Q passif.
ZephyrDrake4 votesIt's a spell that you cannot dodge, making laning against her hell unless you have Nami or Soraka or you managed to snowball on her. And yes while the spell itself isn't all that strong, that with the passif Q is strong.
However as i tried to explain, her q is both a blessing and a curse since as you saw, it takes so much of her power budget. Even Riot had to nerf her W even more because her laning phase is oppressing.
Not to mention that she has to buy
Again, the main issue of her q is how strong it is in the laning phase. Yes it may not be as strong later, but in the laning phase it will surely hit a key target. Hell I think her strong laning phase is the only reason why she isn't at like 40% winrate since it all about the early game right now. The rest doesn't really matter if your opponents are behind.
I said mostly, mostly doesn't mean all of the time. Yes the other two have some use but about 75% of the time, you WILL use Q passif.
a spell you can't dodge... that you cannot target so you cannot hit who you want most of the time outside of the laning phase. It deals pitiful damage to balance the fact that it's always hitting something. Her laning phase hell? pick any engage champion and watch as she does nothing because you can just engage on her and she will die instantly. So her ONE damage spell in the laning phase that does pitiful damage and that it is insanely easy to tell when she is going to use it is strong.
Nymzo1 votesHer laning phase hell? pick any engage champion and watch as she does nothing because you can just engage on her and she will die instantly. So her ONE damage spell in the laning phase that does pitiful damage and that it is insanely easy to tell when she is going to use it is strong.
I don't have any personal problem to deal with her as a guy who plays mainly disrupters.
BUT I can see why others less exprimented or even autofilled who have a hard time dealing with her.
chipndip12 votesok what part of her Q is the problem? tell me. You cannot choose who it targets, it's always the closest enemies which more often than not means tanks. Her Q does 160 max base damage with the rest of the power behind her being able to auto someone. Her Q scaling is 50% which is average to below average, sure her auto part also has some below average scaling...
Everything about it freaking sucks. You could say the same for W.
ZephyrDrake1 votesEverything about it freaking sucks. You could say the same for W.
nice... you told me nothing so... your comment is worthless
chipndip13 votesnice... you told me nothing so... your comment is worthless
Alright, then:
Q's damage is relatively lousy unless you get too close for comfort to enemies.
Q can't miss so you can hardly ever buff the thing.
Q is literally nothing but damage. I don't think any support besides Sona has a move that legit does NOTHING but damage.
The on-hit effect on Q is a ton of invisible power, which I thought Riot didn't like. It feels bad to lose, but you can hardly appreciate it when it's even there.
W can't be aimed, either. If your heal target doesn't have the lowest hp out of all possible targets in 1k range of you, you can't heal that target.
rtbf2317427733 votesAs a sona main i dont understand how her win rate could drop that mush. I didnt notice this nerf that mush a little bit of early damge gone. Inspiration runes Always keeps me at good mana in the laning face. Thay didnt nerf her w power cord the strongest ability in her kit. So i can still protect my carry. The next patch Will hit her and all enchanters more with the item nerfs and that scares me. :/
Banana 18 Bro2 votesAs a main support, I rarely see someone pick Sona anyways. She's not people's best choice for sure. Idk why people complain about her nerf anyways...
DarkRooster1 votesI have not seen her for few years, honestly. By end of the day she will be garbage in comparison. Idk why nerf yet another champion so it gets less played but never even scratching actually problematic champions.
Nerfing champions that barely got spotlight seems very biased. I have this feeling that we have to say goodbye to everything that gets a big stronger and works like AP mage by any aspect.
KirbyCake2 votesnot sure where you are getting your stats from, because currently in diamond sona has the lowest win rate out of all of those, in fact the only support with a lower win rate is bard in plat she just straight up has the lowest win rate out of all supports
and no i do not care about your shitty bronze games pulled from http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/
overall sona only beats karma and zilean as traditional supports, and is useless in high elo http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics
