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Why tanks suck.

The thigh guy··7 votes·1,762 views

Take EVERY piece of armor you buy. Now reduce it by 24%. - black cleaver

Now reduce it by a further 20% - last whisper (component version)

You get 60.8% of the armor you bought. By default.

Now. Take EVERY piece of mr you get.

Reduce it by 18. - sorc shoes

Now reduce it by a further 40%. - void staff

You get less than 60% of the mr you spend gold on. By default.

Now take ALLLLLLL that hp you bought.

Yeah. That’s causing their adc to heal more. Because 8% of it is being dealt as bonus damage to you.

Oh. Did I mention 10% of all damage in lane is likely to be dealt as true damage? If not more.

I’m going to use sunfire as an example here. It is the current most efficient tank item in terms of armor (excluding support items and boots) Clocking in at a 84.85% gold efficiency without its passive.

Now let’s rip 40% of its armor off of it.

36 armor = 720 gold 425 hp = 1105 gold.

You paid 2750 gold for 1825 gold worth of stats.

It’s no wonder no one wants to play tanks. They’re items are fucked. This is actually rediculous.

It’s not like it gets better the more you build. It actually just gets worse and worse.

There seriously needs to be something done about this.

25 Comments

CrazyMonkeyCZ2 votes

Unpopular opinion: No one sane wants to play tanks and this state of game is far better from the hell we went through in tank meta, 30 mins of farming, it didn't matter if tank fed, lost lane, he was just meatwall protecting the God, the Adc. No thanks, keep them trash, thx.

Snarfuractu4 votes

30 Min of farming with the enemy actually sounds kinda good right now ^w^

Sebastit7d5 votes

Instead of the "go help jg get their god damn crab for the 1st 10 mins" gankathon that is the game right now. Yeah, I agree

The thigh guy4 votes

{quoted}

Unpopular opinion: No one sane wants to play tanks and this state of game is far better from the hell we went through in tank meta, 30 mins of farming, it didn't matter if tank fed, lost lane, he was just meatwall protecting the God, the Adc. No thanks, keep them trash, thx.

Good joke dude. You must be a braindead assassin main.

Tank meta was so much more fun than this shit.

CrazyMonkeyCZ

LUL. No I'm not(Rumble main, braindead, but not an assassin). Do you really think in your twisted mind that something can be more braindead than tanks and tank meta? How so? You were literally wasting 30 mins just for 2 or 3 teamfights... I have Dota for that. "So much fun"... Might as well cut my wrist. Yeah. 2 walls of meat, one enchanter, one whatever midlaner and God himself Adc main. So much fun.

Put your shitty nostalgia glasses aside, it was just about one player, laning phase didnt matter, you lost it? Who cares.

When tanks are viable in soloQ, there is always something wrong with the game...

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

LUL. No I'm not(Rumble main, braindead, but not an assassin). Do you really think in your twisted mind that something can be more braindead than tanks and tank meta? How so? You were literally wasting 30 mins just for 2 or 3 teamfights... I have Dota for that. "So much fun"... Might as well cut my wrist. Yeah. 2 walls of meat, one enchanter, one whatever midlaner and God himself Adc main. So much fun.

Put your shitty nostalgia glasses aside, it was just about one player, laning phase didnt matter, you lost it? Who cares.

When tanks are viable in soloQ, there is always something wrong with the game...

Tanks have to worry about target selection and blocking skills as well as using their cc to interrupt high priority targets and stop some channels. But yeah. Keep telling yourself tanks are just braindead.

CrazyMonkeyCZ

Which is exectly what every champ have to do, expect tanks won't die(they will this season, thanks God)... Am I literally any champ with cc and my high prio teammate is getting engaged by enemy? I can CC, but I can die unlike tank. Am I adc? Maybe I should worry about target selection as well, but again I can die, I'm not tank. etc.

Did you just try to convince me that tanks are actually somehow hard to play? Even now if you are autofilled top you can pick Malph in Dia and win...

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

Which is exectly what every champ have to do, expect tanks won't die(they will this season, thanks God)... Am I literally any champ with cc and my high prio teammate is getting engaged by enemy? I can CC, but I can die unlike tank. Am I adc? Maybe I should worry about target selection as well, but again I can die, I'm not tank. etc.

Did you just try to convince me that tanks are actually somehow hard to play? Even now if you are autofilled top you can pick Malph in Dia and win...

With the STUPID amount of damage in the game. Yeah. Tanks are the only ones who have to worry about target selection. :/ when everything dies in .03 seconds it doesn’t matter what a mage targets. It dies.

CrazyMonkeyCZ

You can as well stop overexaggerating, you die in .03 secs if a) they are fed beyond our wildest dreams b) when they used literally everything they could to kill you(most of the times it's overkill).

Yes, you die quicker, but if you played in S3-4, you would know that oneshots were always a thing(lvl3 LB lul). Ppl are just delusional and they like to exaggerate...

boricCentaur12 votes

I don't think you understand how black cleaver works by the time it's full stacked the enemy would of used everything or will not even get full stacks.

Also NO ONE BUILDS BOTH LW AND BC but a very few champions.

Like go and play tanks please since items are not the problem.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you understand how black cleaver works by the time it's full stacked the enemy would of used everything or will not even get full stacks.

Also NO ONE BUILDS BOTH LW AND BC but a very few champions.

Like go and play tanks please since items are not the problem.

If conquerer has proven anything, it’s than dealing 5+ instances of physical damage in under 1.5 seconds is not that big a feat.

Also yes. No champion builds both. But every game has these items in them. And cleaver effects their allies as well.

The top laner or the jungler is ALWAYS going to have a black cleaver, and any adc worth their salt is ALWAYS going to have atleast the last whisper portion of their pen item.

Karoloooo2 votes

It’s the runes that nerfed tanks the most.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

It’s the runes that nerfed tanks the most.

The runes would be fine, if tank stats didn’t get ripped to shit. Sure arcane comet is dealing 300 damage. But if I had 80% damage reduction from mr it’s only 60 damage. Instead I’m taking 200+ because my stats got ripped to shit for no reason.

Light Burner1 votes

60 armor = 4 cloth armors = 1200 gold 425 health = 2 ruby crystals +333 gold = 1133 1200+1133= 2333 gold total 2750 -2333=417 gold passive So you're getting 2333 gold worth of stats not 1825 gold. Also why you ripping off armor and magic resist by random percents?

The thigh guy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZhEwA3Nu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-02T06:54:46.212+0000)

60 armor = 4 cloth armors = 1200 gold 425 health = 2 ruby crystals +333 gold = 1133 1200+1133= 2333 gold total 2750 -2333=417 gold passive So you're getting 2333 gold worth of stats not 1825 gold. Also why you ripping off armor and magic resist by random percents?

They aren’t random percents.

EVERY game has black cleaver, last whisper, sorc shoes and void staff in them.

So the total value you get on every tank item is reduced by over 40% of their resistances.

Accounting for this you only get 1825 gold worth of stats from the most gold efficient armor item available to tanks.

Also note I’m not accounting for the passive because it isn’t possible to account for it. Everyone values it differently.

Light Burner2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZhEwA3Nu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-02T07:01:09.192+0000)

They aren’t random percents.

EVERY game has black cleaver, last whisper, sorc shoes and void staff in them.

So the total value you get on every tank item is reduced by over 40% of their resistances.

Accounting for this you only get 1825 gold worth of stats from the most gold efficient armor item available to tanks.

Also note I’m not accounting for the passive because it isn’t possible to account for it. Everyone values it differently.

Every game "by default" doesnt start with these items on the champions. (black cleaver sorc shoes void staff and last whisper) Also by default you dont get 5 stacks of black cleaver.

So accounting for the enemy champion building 2 items against you you still get 1825 gold worth of stats from an item? So you lose 1000 gold worth of stats for other people investing x gold into 2 items passives? yea? not fair to you for which side? Feel free to check the items passives and how much gold theyre actually worth.

The thigh guy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZhEwA3Nu,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T07:22:53.461+0000)

Every game "by default" doesnt start with these items on the champions. (black cleaver sorc shoes void staff and last whisper) Also by default you dont get 5 stacks of black cleaver.

So accounting for the enemy champion building 2 items against you you still get 1825 gold worth of stats from an item? So you lose 1000 gold worth of stats for other people investing x gold into 2 items passives? yea? not fair to you for which side? Feel free to check the items passives and how much gold theyre actually worth.

The fact that everyone doesn’t start with items is irrelevant when you are talking about items. :/

That’s like saying armor doesn’t counter lethality because you need to buy armor.

As for them investing items to deal with you. Yeah. That would again be a valid point. If these items weren’t already solid items without their passives as well.

Did you know. Black cleaver. Without phage passive or the armor shred passive is 100% gold efficient.

As for item passives. They can’t be calculated unless they give flat stat bonuses.

Should we assume triforce gives 200+ ad because Spellblade?

Should we assume ludens gives another 100 ap because of its proc?

How about Doran’s shield. What should be value 20 hp regen at. (Actually that ones easy. Health potion)

How about the burn on corruption potion? Should that be valued as 15 ap because it does a magic damage burn?

See. You can’t slap gold values on these types of things. So you can’t put a gold value on sunfire passive like you could deadman’s ms.

Also. If conquerer has proven anything in this game, it’s that getting 5 instances of physical damage in under 1.5 seconds isn’t a big hurdle.

Sir Gusi1 votes

You want too much 🤔 What tanks need is the following

  1. Nerf to conquerer
  2. Buff to item 3143 item 3001 (🤣well maybe not that one)item 3190 item 3111
  3. New tank items ffs here is an idea or 2 >

  • A magic resist shield that empowers you with the magic dmg delt to you (not the dmg your Mr blocks) and let you deal 5% of it back on your next basic attack 80 sec cool down. This passive does not activate unless you have more than 3200 hp. I would say give it 40 Mr and 300 hp (stores 5% of magic dmg delt max stored 180 - 450) maybe lower cd if the item is weak on release and increase cd if it's broken can ulter dmg and stats. I think this will be a good item plz Riot release it it is only good against Ap

  • A halo item 😎 😇 that generates a shield that is equal to 10% of your max hp (only if you haven't taken dmg for 4 seconds) Stats : 60 Mr , 10% cdr , 5% movement speed , 5% shield and heal power + passive. This item maybe should get buffed 🙃

  • Armour piece that reduces true dmg taken # this item is needed stats IDC just need it. Hehe if you agree with one of my ideas feel free to spam the shit out of it on boards so Riot can see [poppy-wink]

The thigh guy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Gusi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZhEwA3Nu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-02T07:14:02.534+0000)

You want too much 🤔 What tanks need is the following

  1. Nerf to conquerer

  2. Buff to item 3143 item 3001 (🤣well maybe not that one)item 3190 item 3111

  3. New tank items ffs here is an idea or 2 >

  • A magic resist shield that empowers you with the magic dmg delt to you (not the dmg your Mr blocks) and let you deal 5% of it back on your next basic attack 80 sec cool down. This passive does not activate unless you have more than 3200 hp. I would say give it 40 Mr and 300 hp (stores 5% of magic dmg delt max stored 180 - 450) maybe lower cd if the item is weak on release and increase cd if it's broken can ulter dmg and stats. I think this will be a good item plz Riot release it it is only good against Ap

  • A halo item 😎 😇 that generates a shield that is equal to 10% of your max hp (only if you haven't taken dmg for 4 seconds) Stats : 60 Mr , 10% cdr , 5% movement speed , 5% shield and heal power + passive. This item maybe should get buffed 🙃

  • Armour piece that reduces true dmg taken # this item is needed stats IDC just need it. Hehe if you agree with one of my ideas feel free to spam the shit out of it on boards so Riot can see [poppy-wink]

I think we need 2 items. One that reduces ap on targets and one that reduces ad on targets. Maybe they do it with an aura like sunfire.

Sir Prepuzius1 votes

uhmm this would have been more interesting if you listed the reasoning behind your math

Now reduce it by 24%.

Now reduce it by a further 20%

Reduce it by 18.

like, why?

The thigh guy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Prepuzius,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZhEwA3Nu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-02T07:22:36.356+0000)

uhmm this would have been more interesting if you listed the reasoning behind your math

like, why?

Everyone should know what items reduce stats by what amount. Black cleaver - 24% Last whisper - 20% Void staff - 40% Sorc shoes - 18 flat

All built in every game.

Sir Prepuzius1 votes

i see, thanks

Shinji lkari1 votes

The whole point of a tank is to waste all his money on those items to be a frontline for his team/ADC. You aren't the turret destroyer, you aren't doing most of the damage (ideally speaking), and you aren't an assassin. Everybody wants their champion pool to be hot shit, but at the end of the day it has those stats for a reason.

The thigh guy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shinji lkari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZhEwA3Nu,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-02T07:58:13.076+0000)

The whole point of a tank is to waste all his money on those items to be a frontline for his team/ADC. You aren't the turret destroyer, you aren't doing most of the damage (ideally speaking), and you aren't an assassin. Everybody wants their champion pool to be hot shit, but at the end of the day it has those stats for a reason.

Problems arise when their stats are ripped off of them for no actual reason.

Sir Saltarin1 votes

They lack dmg

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