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Sona: why even bother?

VDc0zCqe0w··9 votes·1,577 views

I've recently found an answer by Nyph (SK-Alliance-Elements) support about his opinion on Sona (mind you, this was BEFORE her nerfs):

she is still pretty weak after the rework. i like the idea of the rework that her positioning rewards good sona players but she has just a really poor design from the beginning and its really hard to balance such champions since they are either too weak or too strong. there are alot of champions like her atm. taric or soraka are good examples. those champions just dont have any outplay potentiel and are really straight forward without needing any skill at the game which lead to the problem of balance.

http://ask.fm/nyphlol

My question is: why did you even bother to rework her just to leave her in the same state, with the same problems, just to nerf her immediately after you saw she still had said "no counterplay" problems?

Like i don't know you said you were going to buff her a little (you said this 3 weeks ago or so), but i don't know just flat out rework her at this point if she's gonna get nerfs the second she's strong.

Just give her a real rework tho, not some random changes that made her a Q-bot.

27 Comments

Emmy Cha0s10 votes

The problem with Sona is a lot deeper than that and she actually has A LOT of counterplay. Matter of fact, she had a lot before 4.13, but the gutting she received that patch exposed those even further and created even more counterplay.

Riot fabricated an excuse to intentionally nerf her and remove her identity. An identity that any other game would've happily enforced and let flourish, but Rito just factually hates Sona and their "balance" team wants her removed from this game.

Her current kit is intentionally bad so that no number of buffs could actually make it playable. Whereas her original matter-of-factly had a very visible and existing balance point, which it had closely reached before patch 3.14 ruined the entire support class, especially Sona.

Rito is planning on eventually just deleting Sona from League, they have no reason to give her any sort of fair treatment or the revert she needs to become playable again. Of course, we all know Fearless is the man in charge of pulling the plug on Sona, but he does have the support of Jag and Meddler to back him up on this decision as well.

Hayaishi25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZgXgPP3M,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-11T00:18:30.579+0000)

The problem with Sona is a lot deeper than that and she actually has A LOT of counterplay. Matter of fact, she had a lot before 4.13, but the gutting she received that patch exposed those even further and created even more counterplay.

Riot fabricated an excuse to intentionally nerf her and remove her identity. An identity that any other game would've happily enforced and let flourish, but Rito just factually hates Sona and their "balance" team wants her removed from this game.

Her current kit is intentionally bad so that no number of buffs could actually make it playable. Whereas her original matter-of-factly had a very visible and existing balance point, which it had closely reached before patch 3.14 ruined the entire support class, especially Sona.

Rito is planning on eventually just deleting Sona from League, they have no reason to give her any sort of fair treatment or the revert she needs to become playable again. Of course, we all know Fearless is the man in charge of pulling the plug on Sona, but he does have the support of Jag and Meddler to back him up on this decision as well.

Spoken with true bias. 10/10

Emmy Cha0s2 votes

I'm sorry, are you going to actually say something constructive or just continue pointing out the obvious?

DrNova4 votes

That's what people do when they have no argument, pick from the list of 10 or so stock replies that count as counterarguments in this braindead forum

Hayaishi23 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZgXgPP3M,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-11T01:05:02.238+0000)

I'm sorry, are you going to actually say something constructive or just continue pointing out the obvious?

I mean an LCS player tells you she has poor design/lacks counterplay etc, so when she gets nerfed it HAS to be because Riot hates her, not because her design is one of the worsts in the whole game. How could that ever get into your full of bias head.

Everyone in this game wants balance and healthy gameplay, they want justice, they want Riot to nerf Lee Sin into unviability to compensate for all the time he's been in the spotlight but when as soon as time of reckoning comes for their main; Riot is unfair, can't balance, only cares about Esports etc etc.

We are all biased towards certain champions/playstyles etc but you have to set it all aside if you want to discuss balance, that would be the correct way to do it. Sona doesn't have a healthy playstyle, her rework was pathetic because they didn't address any of the issues that led to her rework in the first place. But saying "Riot looks for an excuse to nerf Sona because they hate her" when clearly her kit/identity is the problem.

If Riot has to butcher an identity to balance a champion so be it. If they don't do it, we end up with champions like Rengar, who also got reworked and still has the same cancerous playstyle, or Evelyn who after 1835958789523897589378 reworks still doesn't live up to Riot's standards of balance/healthy gameplay

Emmy Cha0s3 votes

so when she gets nerfed it HAS to be because Riot hates her,

When Riot admits she has clear counterplay, is clearly underpowered and is easily counterpicked, but they want to nerf her despite this, then yes. It is as a matter-of-fact because Riot hates her.

That's literally what they said and did in patch 5.1, if you actually bothered to read patch notes.

Edge of Daybreak3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZgXgPP3M,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-11T04:09:32.653+0000)

When Riot admits she has clear counterplay, is clearly underpowered and is easily counterpicked, but they want to nerf her despite this, then yes. It is as a matter-of-fact because Riot hates her.

That's literally what they said and did in patch 5.1, if you actually bothered to read patch notes.

The bias continues. No they didnt literally say that at all... They said she has counterplay** provided you are actually playing an engage support**. Otherwise they said she is oppressive.

For a champion that has her fair share of counters (ex. Leona, Blitzcrank, vocal chords), Sona's pattern** lacks significant counterplay when these champs aren't present,** leaving her laning phase pretty oppressive. To give her opponents more windows to counterattack, we're reducing some of her skirmishing power so she's not so obnoxious with that harp. Etwahl, sorry

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-51-notes

I dont get why we still keep getting these overly biased arguements for sona especially after riot already replied to you guys saying they aren't gonna pretend she is trash because its obvious she isn't. I know you all read that shit since it was made by one of the usual circlejerk.

Have any of you actually considered that maybe just maybe you are actually not correct and you should try to take a non biased view because right now every one of the post is drowning in bias and only being upvoted by the same people not getting anywhere.

RedCyclone3 votes

Really don't remember any LCS player (or any players outside of troll remarks) complaining about her please can you post citation?

RedCyclone5 votes

Because riot constantly calls her buzzwords Why when Sona gets nerfed is there massive backlash from all these Sona mains? because we have no fucking idea what she is doing wrong When she is too strong I will admit it, but in the space of 2+ years, she's never been in a position of being stronger then Thresh, NEVER!

Then we get the typical "shes oppressive" bullshit excuse with absolutely 0 context of what THE FUCK THAT MEANS, "she's good against certain supports" well holyshit that's called counterplay...then fail to mention supports what make Sona's laning pure hell

It's why Sona players are the nicest players in game (from tribunal statistics) we vent all our rage in Riots direction

MaximumNinja174 votes

{quoted}

Because riot constantly call her buzzwords Why when Sona gets nerfed is there massive backlash from all these Sona mains? because we have no fucking idea what she is doing wrong When she is too strong I will admit it, but in the space of 2+ years, she's never been in a position of being stronger then Thresh, NEVER!

Then we get the typical "shes oppressive" bullshit excuse with absolutely 0 context of what THE FUCK THAT MEANS

It's why Sona players are the nicest players in game (from tribunal statistics) we vent all our rage in Riots direction

Its her q in lane thats oppressive. Because while its damage isn't very high she can spam it in lane and you cant do shit about it. Pair that with power cord .If your adc you cant farm without taking lots of damage , if your a support you cant engage because your adc is too low . Her W has a heal and a shield for sustain so you cant poke her to death . Her is E meh but bonus move speed is good for positioning . HER R is normal for a supp .

THis would be ok his she had a high skill cap like say lee sin but Sona isn't very hard to play and has counter less poke in lane . Dodge there stuff and there useless Blitzcrank Karma Lux Morgana Nami Nidalee TahmKench Thresh Zyra Zilean Xerath Velkoz Orianna Braum But what can you do against QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ.

Edit Q i forgot one.

RedCyclone5 votes

you can't do jack shit about it? fuck man, just attack her, every botlane combo has an opportunity to destroy Sona every time she pokes at 550 range, because they come with CC before level 6, will typically deal damage and Sona is made out of a paper like material, only it turns to dust if the wind blows on it

Hayaishi23 votes

{quoted}

you can't do jack shit about it? fuck man, just attack her, every botlane combo has an opportunity to destroy Sona every time she pokes, because they come with CC before level 6

OP has a quote, from a EU support main, regarding her design.

"Fuck man, just attack her" Is as pathetic as the "Just CC him/her argument"

I'm not gonna force my beliefs on anyone in this thread, trying to argue against bias never works, i know Riot feels the same i do about her state, they won't give in to the circlejerk as neither will i (This isn't necessarily aimed at you RedCyclone)

With the likes of Sona, Evelynn and other oppressive champions, it has never been about them being stronger/weaker than Thresh/LeeSin etc. It has been about how healthy and engaging they are to play AGAINST, compared to Thresh and Lee Sin they both lack ALOT of interaction/gameplay, specially Sona.

RedCyclone5 votes

well, please elaborate a scenario where Sona is so damn oppressive feel free to explain to us why the 10% decrease in staccato damage and 5 movement speed was absolutely shitting on everyone she came across

Sona has been viable in the past for very long streaks of time, not many complained about it (then eventually nerfs out of nowhere) why is it that she can't be viable now?

Hayaishi22 votes

{quoted}

well, please elaborate a scenario where Sona is so damn oppressive feel free to explain to us why the 10% decrease in staccato damage and 5 movement speed was absolutely shitting on everyone she came across

Sona has been viable in the past for very long streaks of time, not many complained about it (then eventually nerfs out of nowhere) why is it that she can't be viable now?

So has Vladimir, Evelyn, Talon and many others with unhealthy play patterns. Them being "viable" (As if Sona wasn't viable already) doesn't justify shitty design.

RedCyclone3 votes

not in the same light Sona was in, all these champs had like 1 month tops of the spotlight She was viable but not must pick for like 2 years straight during season 2 and 3, again let me reiterate, complaints on her were rare, she had some high points that actually warranted nerfs in her current situation at that time, but she was always viable

Tell me how many other champions in the game there are who have had a long term of viability but are now trash tier because they are considered "oppressive"

Hayaishi22 votes

{quoted}

not in the same light Sona was in, all these champs had like 1 month tops of the spotlight She was viable but not must pick for like 2 years straight during season 2 and 3, again let me reiterate, complaints on her were rare, she had some high points that actually warranted nerfs in her current situation at that time, but she was always viable

Tell me how many other champions in the game there are who have had a long term of viability but are now trash tier because they are considered "oppressive"

What does it matter if she is viable or someone else is viable? Shitty design SHOULD not be allowed to be viable (Yet it's not like she isn't viable, but circlejerks always pretend their champions are the worse)

An oppressive champion that goes unnerfed doesn't justify another one.

RedCyclone4 votes

I don't quite understand how she has a shitty design, you can see me explain this on the last post Still havn't had that explanation on why she is an oppressive champion, reds couldn't do it, but you sound like you could

Booriin3 votes

{quoted}

Because while its damage isn't very high she can spam it in lane and** you cant do shit about it** THis would be ok his she had a high skill cap like say lee sin but Sona isn't very hard to play and has counter less poke in lane .

Please....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyGSJijOYs

Hayaishi22 votes

{quoted}

Please....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyGSJijOYs

Right and if my support doesn't play Leona, or isn't familiar with the support role in general, Sona auto wins lane provided there's no jungle pressure.

That video shows exactly that most of the people have no idea what actual counterplay is.

Emmy Cha0s2 votes

That video shows exactly that most of the people have no idea what actual counterplay is.

"Diamond+ players have no idea what actual counterplay is." Do you not bother proofreading your words before posting? You just revealed your intelligence quotient with that comment.

1000angrybees4 votes

man that 50 damage poke at level 1. And it even goes up to 90 after 2. how can anyone heal that off

http://i.imgur.com/ygOTzqj.png?1'

Emmy Cha0s1 votes

{quoted}

man that 50 damage poke at level 1. And it even goes up to 90 after 2. how can anyone heal that off

http://i.imgur.com/ygOTzqj.png?1'

Actually, it's 40 damage that goes up to 80, but your point still stands.

DrNova4 votes

Hell old sons was fine. The only way sons was a problem was if you were scared of her and just got into the edge of her poke range repeatedly, which people often did.

If you were smart, you engaged on that ultra squishy bitch and either killed her easy or made her too afraid to poke because she could die so easy.

Nerfing a champ just because she had a psychological strength was stupid, and they just made sons worse.

Booriin4 votes

There your counterplay

Sona's Q really is not a problem. Any ADC with a Vamp scepter can sustain it. Any significant damage from Sona comes from her Passive, and if you're letting her land those without punishing her, you deserve to lose that lane.

There your win rate

Honestly? I do much better as a mid laner than I do as a support with Sona. I win probably 55% of my games as mid sona. support games can be so, so rough with her.

It's funny, because she's supposed to be support first and foremost but functions better as an APC.

Lugg3 votes

She has an almost 52% win rate. Sounds like she is doing pretty good to me.

Booriin2 votes

Nobody complained about pre-rework Sona but Riot still rework her and keep nerf her. There we go, bunch of Sona mains trashtalk about riot or quit already.

Miku Append1 votes

Riot Logic: Let's nerf Sona! Support Reality: Can you guys tone Thresh down a bit...?

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