I'll stop banning Zoe when Riot reworks her Mario Kart W…

1 800 GGTOOEZ · 2017-12-20T01:05:48.841Z

Even with the knowledge that a minion has a* spell (you don't even know what spell, just that it's a spell), there is a drastic difference between her getting two Smites and a Cleanse and her getting two Gunblades and a Teleport. Her W will be impossible to balance meaningfully in its current iteration - it will be weak in some games and bonkers in others. Quoting myself because way too many people don't understand what I'm getting at and think this is just a "nerf Zoe" thread. {quoted} And that's the issue - it's inherently unbalanceable. My idea for something that would be better is that: -Every large minion and large monster would drop a shard -Shards would give a variable amount of points - more points later into the game -You can "buy" a spell for use using points -Buying a certain spell temporarily increases its cost - so you can't just keep spamming cleanse to be gank-proof, for example. This way it's more consistent and predictable, and removes the edge cases while making sure that Zoe can at least get *something out of every drop.

1 800 GGTOOEZDec 20, 201726 votes

Read the thread and my other posts.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

[deleted]

1 800 GGTOOEZDec 20, 201725 votes

I don't think "QQ" is two words. And you obviously didn't read if you think that I'm asking for Zoe to be nerfed.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

[deleted]

1 800 GGTOOEZDec 20, 201715 votes

Replying with "46% win rate" heavily implies that you think I am talking about the champion's power level and are offering a rebuttal.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=1 800 GGTOOEZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZeQwyVuZ,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-20T04:26:45.314+0000)

Replying with "46% win rate" heavily implies that you think I am talking about the champion's power level and are offering a rebuttal.

Nope, it's just an argument on the same level as crying about RNG just because you don't like it. There's tons of mechanics in the game that people don't like, adapt or lose.

TrikzterzArmaDec 20, 201710 votes

There NO other champs that is as RNG-based as Zoe though

superfire444Dec 20, 20173 votes

Yasuo though. Always random wether they are actually good or hard-feeding

hi im sebDec 20, 20174 votes

and here i am still wanting crit and elemental dragons removed

the RNG is literally the only thing I hate about Zoe

Velzard of KozDec 20, 20175 votes

No, Meddler himself confirmed they don't want Bad RNG in the game, they want one you can react to properly. The problem is they think it being occasional, tied to killing marked minion and dropping shard further from Zoe is enough to justify it as good RNG. People usually criticize it as bad RNG. That has naught to do with her winrate or power level, it's just dumb mechanic.

And for all we know this RNG, dropping more frequently shitty shards in row, may be the reason for the low winrate. If something is inbalancable it does not need to mean the champ in question must have high winrate, it can as opposite mean they can't be powerful enough with that.

Also, he's not crying about it, he's giving actual arguments with actual substance, unlike you.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZeQwyVuZ,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-12-20T11:58:18.157+0000)

No, Meddler himself confirmed they don't want Bad RNG in the game, they want one you can react to properly. The problem is they think it being occasional, tied to killing marked minion and dropping shard further from Zoe is enough to justify it as good RNG. People usually criticize it as bad RNG. That has naught to do with her winrate or power level, it's just dumb mechanic.

And for all we know this RNG, dropping more frequently shitty shards in row, may be the reason for the low winrate. If something is inbalancable it does not need to mean the champ in question must have high winrate, it can as opposite mean they can't be powerful enough with that.

Also, he's not crying about it, he's giving actual arguments with actual substance, unlike you.

Here's an argument for you: Meddler confirmed they don't want BAD RNG, Zoe passed QC and was released and made it through PBE with her current W, therefore according to Riot her W is GOOD RNG.

Thanks, you've just explained why Zoe's W is fine and people just need to learn to adapt.

Yaśuo MainDec 20, 20175 votes

That's not an argument. That's an empty claim made by yourself. Besides, lots of things bad got through the PBE such as Ornn crashing everyone's game. That means Riot has a very bad image of what is good and what is bad due to the fact that they let that happen.

Thanks, your logic proved me right.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yaśuo Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZeQwyVuZ,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-20T20:20:15.064+0000)

That's not an argument. That's an empty claim made by yourself. Besides, lots of things bad got through the PBE such as Ornn crashing everyone's game. That means Riot has a very bad image of what is good and what is bad due to the fact that they let that happen.

Thanks, your logic proved me right.

There is a huge difference between a bug and a design decision. Zoe didn't magically get RNG when she hit live servers. After their entire process it was determined to be fine.

YOU may have a bad impression of Riot but 26,999,999 other people don't share your views apparently. Just learn to adapt and stop expecting the world to change to suit your own preference.

Yaśuo MainDec 20, 20173 votes

Zoe didn't magically get RNG when she hit live servers. After their entire process it was determined to be fine.

after tHeiR eNTIR-- yeah sure whatever. I don't need an Ornn bug to make that statement invalid. I could say Kassadin right now and you'd lose. Or any champion that had an unreasonable buff released since every season (and that is quite a lot).

26,999,999

assuming no one else thinks ZOE rng is bad lol

Just learn to adapt

yeah right, that justifies to every single champion with unhealthy mechanics

There has been much feedback from the PBE that has not stopped dumb things from getting through the PBE because Riot hasn't listened to it. Riot depends on the players to balance the game half the time. If they didn't, many things would be wrong here.

T4underboltDec 20, 20177 votes

Lb with silence had 45%. Your argument is invalid.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Lb with silence had 45%. Your argument is invalid.

LB also had no RNG so my argument is valid and proven by your own example.

T4underboltDec 20, 20172 votes

Yours even more invalid since RNG has nothing to with it. Zoe has more burst and less counterplay than LB with silence. LB at least had to W in your face to deal damage, zoe does more dmg than that from relatively safe range. And RNG actually gives Zoe an advantage plus gives her another source of damage. Keep dreaming. Though I guess you base asumption zoe is bad on the fact you cant play the champion that literally needs no brain to play. Spamming overloaded champ for freelo failed. Stay silver forever.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yours even more invalid since RNG has nothing to with it. Zoe has more burst and less counterplay than LB with silence. LB at least had to W in your face to deal damage, zoe does more dmg than that from relatively safe range. And RNG actually gives Zoe an advantage plus gives her another source of damage. Keep dreaming. Though I guess you base asumption zoe is bad on the fact you cant play the champion that literally needs no brain to play. Spamming overloaded champ for freelo failed. Stay silver forever.

Except that the author stated repeatedly that he isn't talking about balance at all, only about the RNG aspect. It appears thought you have no interest in the discussion and only looking to pick a fight, which you lost because you failed to actually read the thread. Better luck next time.

T4underboltDec 20, 20172 votes

So did you. Bringing up winrate as an argument which is invalid. Zoe problem is both rng and dumb toxic desing - old nidalee like.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So did you. Bringing up winrate as an argument which is invalid. Zoe problem is both rng and dumb toxic desing - old nidalee like.

Win rate is data. Your opinion has no support other than your personal feelings. The RNG is fine, her balance is fine, she's no more toxic than any other 'toxic' champ in the game. I'll ban Fizz or Zed every time over Zoe.

Just learn to play against her like the other 54% of players and you'll be fine.

KarunamonDec 20, 20172 votes

This whole argument:

No, u.

NO U!

NO, ACTUALLY, YOU.

_

#WHAT HAS BEEN SAID APPLIES MORE TO THE PREVIOUS POSTER THAN TO MYSELF!!!

hoyohaiDec 20, 20172 votes

You literally just said that OP was talking about RNG, not balance. Why do you bring up her winrate when it falls into the category of balance?

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You literally just said that OP was talking about RNG, not balance. Why do you bring up her winrate when it falls into the category of balance?

Because Riot condones her RNG and calling it 'broken' is disproven by the fact that it is obviously not game breaking. It's simply a matter of some people don't like it and using that excuse to claim it shouldn't exist at all because they said so. That's entitled selfishness.

hoyohaiDec 20, 20172 votes

You said OP's not talking about it being broken. He's talking about it being too unpredictable. Winrate does not matter.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You said OP's not talking about it being broken. He's talking about it being too unpredictable. Winrate does not matter.

Except that winrate is the only thing that matters to your ranking. Period. To argue otherwise is to literally ignore reality and make up your own truth.

hoyohaiDec 20, 20173 votes

He doesn't care about his ranking right now. He cares about making the game better.

Or at least what he thinks is better

General Esdeath Dec 20, 20172 votes

HURR MUH WINRATE

I called you out on this a week ago and you're still using it as the excuse. smh if anything it proves OP right. Zoe is luck based and no amount of skill on either end will fix that.

Gives No LuxDec 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

HURR MUH WINRATE

I called you out on this a week ago and you're still using it as the excuse. smh if anything it proves OP right. Zoe is luck based and no amount of skill on either end will fix that.

Until it changes then it's clear that Riot should be looking at the champs with 55%+ win rates. Plain and simple the RNG is fine and the win rate proves that it doesn't affect her balance. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be changed to suit your opinion.

Velzard of KozDec 21, 20173 votes

Plain and simple the RNG is fine and the win rate proves that it doesn't affect her balance. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be changed to suit your opinion.

How exactly anything you said proves it? No the problem is you interpret one number the exact way it suits you. You automatically claim her having low winrate makes RNG fine and she's undertuned. Maybe... JUST MAYBE... She isn't undertuned but the low winrate is caused by the RNG factor.

Not sure If you either don't remember it or you are that biased, but when Ornn had low winrate, first thing Riot changed was display of Masterworks to discourage players from buying them early. Not his damage. Not duration of CC. Not his stats. What concerned them first was that maybe what affects his winrate wasn't his power but the fact players misunderstood usage of Masterworks.

So, does it really take that much thinking to understand that Zoe's winrate may be affected by results of the RNG rather than her being undertuned. I don't think her burst is too big problem because she is a burst mage, but that burst is good enough. What exactly would you buff on her so that she is closer to 50% winrate? Mana costs? They're already low. Cooldowns? The only ability with crucial cooldown must have such cooldown, otherwise cooldowns are quite low. Damage? Her Q max-rank deals ultimate ability rank I levels of damage in base damage when charged, you cannot buff it or you'll powercreep one ability. And when it is combined with E it can shred 80% HP even when Zoe isn't that fed.

She is already decent at everything else. So it isn't us wanting her to change because we don't like that as you keep desperately trying to pain it. But If they want to fix her to change her winrate, I'd be more pleased If they actually solved her problems rather than powercreeping abilities that already have low enough mana cost, already have low enough CD, already have high enough damage.

So the problem is that while you think you are better because you adapt instead of complaining, maybe it's just that you don't have the wit to realize what is problematic on champion and what needs to be fixed. When Kassadin had his Kassawin phase, payers would be right to complain about it and point out what were his problems so that these could be fixed.

Gives No LuxDec 21, 20171 votes

Exactly, and Kassadin had a high win rate reflecting that, further proof that win rate matters.

Either way Zoe is strong vs a single target but brings little to a team fight. She is no more problematic than any assassin RNG or not.

1 800 GGTOOEZDec 21, 20173 votes

You would've been wonderful to have around with S2 jungle Alistar, with an abysmal winrate yet completely broken in the hands of anyone who had halfway decent mechanics or was familiar with him.

General Esdeath Dec 21, 20173 votes

"her shitty winrate I'm using to say she's not OP proves she's fine"

OK

Gives No LuxDec 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"her shitty winrate I'm using to say she's not OP proves she's fine"

OK

I'm glad you agree. It's good to know that some folks also understand that basing conclusions on data is more beneficial than basing them on perception.

General Esdeath Dec 21, 20173 votes

I also enjoy memes

I'll stop banning Zoe when Riot reworks her Mario Kart W to not be wildly unpredictable.

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