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Slight Camille Rework Idea

Eternal791··2 votes·406 views

Now that Camille has been nerfed from being really strong to being really weak, I think Camille needs a few changes to her kit along with some minor buffs to help keep her not be UP or OP.

**Passive - **No changes

**Q - **No changes except for a slight damage boost (true damage percentage stays the same) to make up for a lack of (or rather minimal) sustain while in lane.

W - Can only heal on enemy champions and large jungle creatures.

**E - **No changes.

R (two ideas)

Idea 1: Point and Click - 2 second duration and doesn't deactivate if she dies or leaves the area. The targeted champion is capable of exiting the arena; however enemies that touch its walls are slowed (the targeted enemy is slowed even more than their allies). Camille gets a damage boost while inside the arena.

Idea 2: Skillshot (ground targeted) - 4 second duration and does not deactivate if Camille dies. Stays the same as it was on release except the activation is different. Upon hitting R, Camille is given an AOE (a large outer circle and a small inner circle) to choose where to ult. The enemy caught closest to the center of the inner circle is trapped in the area. All other enemies within the AOE are knocked back.

24 Comments

GrievousFetus3 votes

Her W already only heals on champs.

Her ult isn't what needs to be changed.

doodlebob6661 votes

what else can you change though? without atleast a class rework her ult is the only place where you can easily pull power, and shift elsewhere

GrievousFetus2 votes

I disagree, Camille has a massive amount of totally unnecessary tools at her disposal she could lose entirely. Q's movespeed steroid has little reason to exist, her W slow creates a terrible false choice for the opposing player, and her E could easily be reworked to force the Camille player to make more of a choice. If you toned down her E damage, and made both halves of E capable of damaging enemies (both the hook and the dive) then using her E as an engage tool deprives her of some of her total damage while she gets full damage using it offensively after already getting into a fight.

Making her W self slow for the delay duration instead of slowing the enemy when hit with the outer half of the cone prevents it from being a frustrating false choice, and instead incentivizes using W during E, which is difficult to land but circumvents it's negative aspects.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree, Camille has a massive amount of totally unnecessary tools at her disposal she could lose entirely. Q's movespeed steroid has little reason to exist, her W slow creates a terrible false choice for the opposing player, and her E could easily be reworked to force the Camille player to make more of a choice. If you toned down her E damage, and made both halves of E capable of damaging enemies (both the hook and the dive) then using her E as an engage tool deprives her of some of her total damage while she gets full damage using it offensively after already getting into a fight.

Making her W self slow for the delay duration instead of slowing the enemy when hit with the outer half of the cone prevents it from being a frustrating false choice, and instead incentivizes using W during E, which is difficult to land but circumvents it's negative aspects.

Make her E interruptable by hard CC, like stuns when she's on the wall and if the stun doesn't last long enough.

Eternal7912 votes

It is interrupted by hard CC, even if she's mid air (she might finish flying to her destination but she can't do anything after that).

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

It is interrupted by hard CC, even if she's mid air (she might finish flying to her destination but she can't do anything after that).

Hard CC as in stuns and roots, not knock ups.

Besides her knockup will cancel your dash, which is really annoying. Why does her E even have a knock up?

Eternal7911 votes

I know what hard CC is and the knock up on her E is extremely nessessary or she wouldn't be able to deal enough damage to the target. Its very easy to escape the true damage part of her Q (even with the knock up of her E) so the knock up is used to by her time to get it off on the enemy. And if an enemy is capable of dealing damage more consistently than her (like Yasuo and plenty of others) she needs the knockup to lower the incoming damage so she can actually stand chance at winning the trade. Her E (with its mobility and knock up) is perhaps the most important part of her whole kit cause it allows her to actually do something.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

I know what hard CC is and the knock up on her E is extremely nessessary or she wouldn't be able to deal enough damage to the target. Its very easy to escape the true damage part of her Q (even with the knock up of her E) so the knock up is used to by her time to get it off on the enemy. And if an enemy is capable of dealing damage more consistently than her (like Yasuo and plenty of others) she needs the knockup to lower the incoming damage so she can actually stand chance at winning the trade. Her E (with its mobility and knock up) is perhaps the most important part of her whole kit cause it allows her to actually do something.

facepalm

The ability has a stun and a knock up. They're separate. The knock up literally lasts for an instant and is fucking useless, except to make it so her E stops dashes. She's not Vi, the knock up isn't the actual CC, the stun afterwards is. The stun is what lets her do what you talked about. The knockup has nothing to do with it.

Eternal7911 votes

Stopping dashes is still necessary for her E to do what its supposed to do, so therefore the knockup still essentially does what I said it does. And her E is really hard to land on champions that have dashes because they can very easily dodge it entirely, so I see no problem with allowing Camille to stop the dash if she does manage to land her E.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Stopping dashes is still necessary for her E to do what its supposed to do, so therefore the knockup still essentially does what I said it does. And her E is really hard to land on champions that have dashes because they can very easily dodge it entirely, so I see no problem with allowing Camille to stop the dash if she does manage to land her E.

The problem is that if I dash into Camille to, yunno, do damage, CC her - it gets stopped, and she CC's me instead. It's annoying as fuck.

Eternal7911 votes

And getting cc'd while wall dashing as Camille isn't (its pretty much the exact same thing as you said)? Tbh, what isn't annoying in this game? Against Camille, its probably just best to save your dash for dodging her E or to engage after she already failed to land it.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

And getting cc'd while wall dashing as Camille isn't (its pretty much the exact same thing as you said)? Tbh, what isn't annoying in this game? Against Camille, its probably just best to save your dash for dodging her E or to engage after she already failed to land it.

I'm just annoyed because it counters people I play often, for Riven it has a good chance of stopping your third Q instead of the other way around (Riven third Q can be used to stop dashes), which is annoying. And I also play Quinn, who often E's to stop dashes, so you instinctively do it, but then Camille just stops it and then you also land right in front of her, ready to be fucked. Which is even worse because you're only chance against Camille is staying out of her R range.

Eternal7911 votes

Yeah, Camille usually counters Riven pretty hard, though Quinn for the most part can ruin her day with her blind and everything. I know how you feel though, cause lots of champs counter Camille pretty hard.

Eternal7911 votes

The move speed boost on landing her Q is entirely necessary to help her land the second Q. Her W slow is fine as it is and E barely does any damage. Her ult really is the only thing that needs serious changing.

doodlebob6661 votes

yeah but even without things like the w slow or the q move speed she would still be pick or ban in proplay because of the pick potential that her ult gives and the fact that it makes her a ticking timebomb of a splitpusher even worst than fiora, because of her higher escape potential and ability to build tankier, if she had decent numbers

she needs to lose either the flat onhit damage on her ult, or the current health damage, even just converting it from magic to physical could be enough, for her to even be balanceable in normal play without being op in pro, since it means she can duel tanks very well and can they can't even escape from her or itemize against her since they need flat health for the true damage, MR for magic damage, armor for all her physical damage, and they can't get these stats before she has enough tankiness and sustain to just ignore all thier damage,

Eternal7911 votes

Her ult really is the only thing in real need of a change. And I know her W heals on champs but it used to heal on all enemies, which I don't think is enough, cause it completely removes her jungling capabilities.

GrievousFetus1 votes

Well Camille isn't a jungler so that's fine.

JavelinJoe1 votes

She actually was a top/Jungler champion (and somewhat support after being played in LCS, but that died fast). Her last nerf ended her Jungling potential since she could no longer sustain it.

JavelinJoe2 votes

A no for both ult changes because they would nerf her even more. \Having something that she gets thrown into, which only significantly slows 1 champion is a stupid ability for an ult which gives the caster some risk. The other is not as terrible, but then she still needs to enter her own ult as a melee champion. thus reducing effective time for her to use the damage increase.

Eternal7911 votes

The first idea would slow every champion that touches a wall, and Camille is primarily a duelest champion so she's supposed to focus on one enemy and keep them from getting away from her. The second idea still includes her leaping onto her target, so she doesn't need to enter the arena after activating it.

JavelinJoe1 votes

Not really, it basically is just a thresh ult then. Also, if she still leaps onto a target, then what is the point of it being a skill shot in the first place???

Eternal7911 votes

So it has counter play by allowing the potential for it to be dodged. The complaint I hear about her ult the most is that it has no counter play being a point and click ability that denies you from getting away. My idea was that it would act sort of like a Zillean Q in that the person caught in the inner circle gets trapped in the arena while everyone else gets pushed out. It probably wouldn't follow targets that flash or dash away but would have longer range. Or she could throw/shoot something that allows her to lock onto her target. Hell it could make use of her grappling hooks by allowing her to grapple onto an enemy and then raise an arena around them.

JavelinJoe1 votes

It has counter play. Just not in the form of a "dodge" per say, and even that is debatable. You simply go untargetable mid cast and she loses the effect, but keeps the CD, so kinda like a dodge. Also, any hard CC or knocking her out of the ult works too. See, loads of counter play. Just because something can't be walked away from does not mean it has no counter play. Even buying item 3157 makes early level ults useless since item 3157 duration is the same. rank 2 is not much better with only a .75s window of effectiveness. The item 3026 change also means that most AD squishy targets don't get screwed over if they happen to get caught.

that the person caught in the inner circle gets trapped in the arena while everyone else gets pushed out.

You mean like how she dives onto a selected target, pushes all others out, and traps said target inside already?

Or she could throw/shoot something that allows her to lock onto her target

She already does that. She throws herself and locks on to her target.

Hell it could make use of her grappling hooks by allowing her to grapple onto an enemy and then raise an arena around them.

Yeah, hooking a champion is not a good idea. Easily intercepted, easily blocked, super telegraphed, can be side stepped, etc. It would more or less cause her lose an ability since she needs to have 2 abilities available to activate it.

These would just be more nerfs to an already over-nerfed champion. If anything, I would simply say that if her target dies while in her ult, she refunds half the cost and CD. Or if she dies, the ult lasts for the full remainder (a nerf revert), not simply 1 second or less. And that is if her ult needs t be touched. Best thing they likely can do is give her W its heal back, half it for non champions, epic monsters, and jungle buffs camps and she should be ok, not great, but at least playable.

She is already one of the only champions who NEEDS an enemy champion in order to gain all of her defensive buffs and sustain from her kit. Her passive and heal only work if she attacks an enemy champion. So by taking away the 1 guaranteed (or at least guaranteed 99% of the time, if they don't do the mid animation "dodge" that I explained earlier) ability to give her a target by making it easier to dodge / escape is the absolute last thing she needs.

Eternal7911 votes

You really don't understand much of what I'm trying to say, but Tbh, I agree with you. Camille's ult (and the rest of her kit) has a plenty of counter play that people just seem to not want to see. I'm just trying think of ideas that more people would stop wining about while still being powerful and fun to use (whether my ideas are good or not).

Camille has been one of my favorite champions since the day she released and I'm sad to see her get nerfed to the ground. And yeah, I'd love nerfs to her W to be reverted and maybe for a little more damage on her Q. I really hope they buff her soon.

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