I feel it is, its not that huge of a difference hitting 2 people and he still has low manager costs(better than pre rework where he was oom a lot).
Thoughts on maybe more sustain nerfs?
Caraméla37 votesHe shouldnt even get healed at the first place imo, it's completely irrelevant and of course completely broken
Ignis03 votesHe shouldnt even get healed at the first place imo, it's completely irrelevant and of course completely broken
He can still easily survive any team fight what so ever as long as the player knows how to slam spam that Q button. Seriously though I've yet to win a team fight without Darius stomping everyone. (unless we target him before a team fight arises WHICH IS HIS ONLY COUNTER PLAY).
DeadPuddle2 votesthen your team is mispositioning, you have to either stay away from him or jump inside the center of his Q range to avoid giving him the heal and stacks
CubedJustice6 votesAh yes, the classic EVERYBODY JUST RUN AWAY strategy.
DeadPuddle3 votesYou dont run away from darius when he Q's if your fighting him in lane, you run INSIDE the Q circle, he gets no stack and no heal
NO HEAL.
how come noone reads the patch notes
CubedJustice2 votesOh, sure. I'm playing kogmaw, darius flashes into my team. Clearly, instead of getting my range advantage, I need to run closer to him. That's obviously how you win fights.
DeadPuddle1 votescontext man.
I was referring how to fight him in lane.
and if he flashes into you and you flash out your STILL inside his Q range. your gona get a stack, he'll get 5 stacks on you faster and you'll die from his ult.
if you don't have the movement speed to outrun him (and lets face it, he'll have deadman's plate by the time your team fighing so you can't) The optimal play in this scenario is to walk INTO him while his Q is casting, avoid the stack, avoid healing him, and after the Q is cast THEN flash away so you don't get him by anything.
that's the best thing to do if the above scenario happens but tbh your pretty screwed if this happens, why is your support not stunning his dive.
Do as you wish, I've played against him and played as him. noone is taking advantage of this rather large weakness when fighting him.
Fighting darus 1v1 is all about good trading and denying him building his stacks so he can finish you with his ult.
Darius optimally will E you next to him, then auto (one stack), W you (two stacks), then auto(three stacks), Q as you run (four stacks), Then auto (five stacks) and ult you.
He can also flash Q (one stack), E you, auto (two stacks), W you (three stacks) auto (four stacks), Q again (five stacks).
you'll notice with a full combo he can easily get four stacks, the last stack is the difficult one unless he has Q.
If you deny him at least one stack of his passive you have a chance to escape, he only gains 40-200 free AD if he gets 5 stacks. you HAVE to deny him that in a team fight, even if it means you die your team can kill him without him cleaning up the fight.
Ignis03 votesthen your team is mispositioning, you have to either stay away from him or jump inside the center of his Q range to avoid giving him the heal and stacks
his q range is HUGE and it's hard for non melees to get that close with getting torn to shreds
DeadPuddle2 votesI've played countless games on him and the mistake every single melee champ makes is running away from darius when he Q's.
IT HAS A BUILT IN WEAKNESS FOR GODS SAKE.
Darius gets no passive stack and no heal i'll say it again, NO HEAL if you run INSIDE his Q circle.
all you have to do when laning him is go for a damage exchange, deal damage to him, stay INSIDE his Q circle THEN run away. you'll win the damage exchange or go even but darius WILL NOT HEAL
N0rth Wind18 votes#GP can heal _150 + 90% AP + 15% MISSING HP _ with his W without hitting anyone. (W)
Stop complaining already. Don't get hit by his Q.
Miraweave8 votes[{quoted}](name=N0rth Wind,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZXAetwp9,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-09-17T11:10:33.865+0000)
I think it's fine, and in lane 12% missing HP = usually less than 6-8% (noone walks up to the enemy top to Q them with 50 HP). JUST SAYING:
Mundo can heal 3% of his MAX HP in 10 seconds without hitting anyone. (passive)
##Garen can heal 8% _MAX _ HP in 10 seconds without hitting anyone. (lvl11 passive)
#GP can heal _150 + 90% AP + 15% MISSING HP _ with his W without hitting anyone. (W)
Stop complaining already. Don't get hit by his Q.
3% max HP per ten seconds is... not very much.
Garen's isn't in combat.
GP's has a very long cooldown and the ability is purely defensive.
You're an idiot just for bringing up Garen's passive.
N0rth Wind9 votesAnd you are disrespectful for talking like that, but showing a lack of manners and class is your problem, not mine.
Darius has 12% per Q and GP has almost 20% by lvl 13.
Your point?
BallisticMouse4 votesIn a teamfight, which normally last a few seconds late game, Mundo's and Garen's are irrelevant normally and GP can use his once in a teamfight where as Darius can Q so often and gain so much back that he can out sustain a team.
Yes there is counterplay and blah blah blah but the point is Darius is the only one who can actually have his heal matter in a fight, to a much much much higher extent than the others. At a much lower mana cost at that.
Z461 votesRemember that GP also has a QSS in his W. It's not just for the heal. It gets him out of literally any form of crowd control every 22 to 14 seconds, not counting CDR.
The only other champion who can break a suppression without buying the only item capable of dispelling it is Olaf, and that's on his ultimate.
BallisticMouse2 votesWhile you're right, and I didn't forget, two hard cc's counters that pretty easily.
Doctor Dyment2 votesYou might say it is balanced now, and compare it to Mundo and Garen, but you do one thing wrong: Comparing the laning phases to the late game phases. You see, those sustains are good for being in lane and stuff, but those over time heals don't really have as much of an impact as say, something that heals a ridiculous amount for something that costs so little and has a low cooldown.
Diananmen Square2 votesHow can you not get hit?
If you ever get near him he will just start charging Q and if you try to run he goes after you with the Q.
And especially once he gets Dead Man's, you can't avoid that.
N0rth Wind4 votesQ has an inner ring for a reason. Use it. You don't only dodge the Q heavy damage and the bleed stack, you can hit him in the meantime.
Do not ignore the champion's mechanics ffs. You can't outrun him, obviously, especially when slowed, so dive in and smack him. If you do it right, you can trade and then run away and he has nothing to stop you, and you take only 2 stacks.
Diananmen Square3 votesForgot about the god damn inner ring, kill me now.
Ralanr1 votesI forget it most of the time too. It makes sense as to why, usually you don't want to jump in closer to the guy swinging the axe. Not on reflex anyway. Takes practice to jump into it rather than trying to run.
Then there are those people who jump into it on reflex. I have two words to describe them: Psychos or Warriors.
Lugg14 votesHow can ANYONE think a 36% heal is healthy gameplay? Especially on a champ that has a grab and can keep you in range.
SpecterVonBaren9 votesAnd that builds tons of health so that percentage is even more effective. Meanwhile, Aatrox gets a flat heal and is actively punished for building tanky while having worse base stats than Darius.
Lugg3 votesExactly.
SofaKing Irelia3 votesHow can ANYONE think a 36% heal is healthy gameplay? Especially on a champ that has a grab and can keep you in range.
if he grabs then q's he won't heal.... just stay in close while he wings around then run or fight. Darius is fine where he is, this is coming from a toplane main who rarely if ever plays him.
Lugg5 votesIf you don't get away from him, he murders you. So he will get the heal as you try to escape.
Trumpet2 votesshh, people don't like truth here. The thing is either way you're screwed (in melee range or take the brunt of q) it really is a no win situation. That is why his ban rate is so high, because no matter how you try to fight him he gets one of 2 large benefits (enemy in melee range, or a massive heal + massive damage).
FastAsHeck4 votesIT IS A MISSING HEALTH HEAL, STOP CHANGING FACTS!!!
Shroom Junkie1 votesHow can ANYONE think a 36% heal is healthy gameplay? Especially on a champ that has a grab and can keep you in range.
Well, technically its a 36% missing health heal. But still.
Penns8 votes
FusPanDah4 votesYes please. I get so scared when my jungler comes to gank because that just means an extra 12% percent heal for Darius.
KONO RUBICK DA5 votesYes please. I get so scared when my jungler comes to gank because that just means an extra 12% percent heal for Darius.
tell to your jungle to stick to him so darius doesn't get the heal
Beuhlakor4 votesRiot should nerf the % missing health and add a flat heal amount.
Right now it is simply ridiculous. Yes, hitting 3 enemies with Decimate in TF is not that easy, but the potential heal is absolutely INSANE. And since he is build with BC, as soon as his Q is lvl 9, he can spam it so hard that he can heal for a lot multiple times in teamfight even if he hits only 2 ennemies with Decimate.
This is what I think Riot should do (numbers are given as an example) :
Decimate - for each ennemy strucked by the blade, Darius heals for 25/50/75/100/125 + 4% of his missing health.
It would be prevent 
from healing for 1000+ when low health and that would be a nice thing. Even 
or 
can't heal for that much (and Aatrox has to choose between damages and healing ...).
KONO RUBICK DA3 voteswhat needs to be changed is his range, it shouldn't be 275-425 but something like 375-425 that way melee can run into him to prevent him from having his bonus.
How can ANYONE think a 36% heal is healthy gameplay? Especially on a champ that has a grab and can keep you in range.
if it was hard to get it, with counterplay it would be balanced and darius would be more skilled.that's why riot needs to reduce the width not reduce the healing
JJI7442 voteswhat needs to be changed is his range, it shouldn't be 275-425 but something like 375-425 that way melee can run into him to prevent him from having his bonus.
Prettymuch this. Any champ with a larger hitbox gets hit by the blade almost by default.
Melees in general can't avoid the blade unless they have a dash that puts them on top of Darius.
Slamurai Jack1 voteswhat needs to be changed is his range, it shouldn't be 275-425 but something like 375-425 that way melee can run into him to prevent him from having his bonus.
Do you know how wide 50 range is? Most melee champions have 125 range, and 50 range is 40% of that. You'd be lucky to ever hit anything on the blade if it were only 50 units wide.
ElegantDoge3 votesI think him having a heal is fine,but the % might be too much.I can become really dangerous in teamfight.I understand that he's a bruiser that needs to be taken down but with the proper team comp,he can bring a lot of pressure for the enemy team.A bit too much imo. If he heals for ..20% max i think it would be fine.
N0rth Wind4 votesIf 3 people get hit by the blade at the same time, your team deserves all the damage and healing he outputs.
Doctor Dyment2 votesYes, if three people can be hit by an ability with a complete circular range and heals for a large amount on a five second cooldown, sure. You deserve that damage.
Hay5eed3 votesMy question is "why the F*%k does Darius have a heal?" it's silly. They reworked him and then renamed his passive so that his kit and play-style properly fits his personality, and yet where the hell in Darius personality does it seem like he would have a heal? How many Noxian champs even have a heal? Swain....thats it. Darius should not have a heal period.
LoLKiru2 votesMy question is "why the F*%k does Darius have a heal?" it's silly. They reworked him and then renamed his passive so that his kit and play-style properly fits his personality, and yet where the hell in Darius personality does it seem like he would have a heal? How many Noxian champs even have a heal? Swain....thats it. Darius should not have a heal period.
He has it because to be perfectly honest, he NEEDS it. If you're a melee champ in this game, you need 1 of 2 things to be viable
1.) Tankyness and Sustain (Darius only has sustain, he isn't innately tanky, he has to buy all of his tank items)
2.) Another way of avoiding your death (Tryndamere has his ult, Fiora can block anything with Parry, Yi can become untargetable, Yasuo has windwall and his flow shield, etc)
Number 2 is usually reserved for Melee carries. Nearly every viable top laner has sustain in some form, and those who don't are innately tanky (Wukong comes to mind for this one)
His heal is DEFINITELY overtuned at the moment (make it a flat heal + smaller % of missing health; or max health even if it turns out to be too weak) but he needs it to remain viable. Ideally you'd want it to be strong enough to be relevant at all stages of the game (so that Darius can still get good heals off in teamfights if he plays well) but not SO strong that its like it is now.
Edit: Also worth noting everyone in example 2 is BASICALLY unkitable (well, Tryndamere is but the others are very difficult if not impossible to kite, which is why they DON'T get to be tanky)
SlampieceHawke1 votesI'll give you an example of another champ people complain about and claim is cheese... who has tons of heal built in
.
And if we're going by some lore (which shouldn't effect how champions play in my opinion) the dude swooped in and lopped off a dudes head in a losing battle. To me, it's almost like he did heal himself in the lore, he got a second wind and slayed chomos.
Airmez3 votesWhat people are seeming to forget that Darius heal makes no sense thematically either. Why does some axe-dude magically heal his wounds by hitting stuff with an axe? It feels like rito just stuck it on there last minute because they wanted to add extra power to his kit.
And going back to what people are saying about Garen, Mundo, Gangplank; their heals aren't even comparable to Darius' heal. First of all, Garen's passive only takes effect when out of combat for a static amount of time. Nine times out of ten you won't even notice it, and even then only in laning phase/post level 16. It is a non-factor during combat and always will. Darius heal works whether you are in combat or out of it and the mana cost is so low it might as well be costless.
Mundo's kit is completely reliant on healing. His entire kit is focused around being an unkillable brick wall in teamfights. Bringing up Mundo's passive healing is also laughable - 3% of maximum HP over 10 seconds? Hitting even one person with Darius' Q at half HP gives back the same percentage of HP that Mundo heals over 20 seconds. In addition to all of that, Mundo is the premier healing/regen tank, yet for some reason Darius is healing much more than him while putting out Mundo's damage on an exponential scale. I don't see Mundo dealing 1000+ true damage on entire teams, and neither do you.
Comparing Gangplank's W to Darius Q is ridiculous in itself. Comparing two completely different abilities with no relation to each other apart from a heal is just stupid. What people are also seeming to forget is that Gangplank only deals damage if he actually builds damage, meaning that he's not going to be building much health. In fact, in most games the only health item a gangplank will build is a triforce, meaning the % missing HP heal will grant hilariously low amount of HP in comparison to Darius' Q, a champion on which you will build a surplus of health. Also, Darius has access to his heal every five seconds, barring any cooldown reduction at all. Add in some cooldown reduction, and that cooldown is lowered to three seconds. Gangplank's heal on the other hand sports nearly three times the cooldown of Darius' Q and is completely outclassed.
To be honest, Darius could easily be balanced with some changes to his Q. Either lower the healing more, decrease the healing cap to only two champions, or make it so his Q only heals below a certain HP threshold. In return power could be added to other parts of his kit. Something needs to be done about this champion, and it needs to be done soon.
TL;DR
Don't make yourself look stupid by comparing other champions' heals to Darius' heal when they are obviously worse. Nerf Darius' heal and put power somewhere else in his kit.
P.S. Stop upvoting your own comments with alternate accounts and then downvoting people with different opinions. Looking at you, North Wind.
Akesgeroth2 votesNo.
KING OF MASKS2 votesMy vote would be to completely remove the heal and boost Q's damage in compensation.
Jefftiffy5 votes[{quoted}](name=KING OF MASKS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZXAetwp9,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2015-09-17T20:13:23.454+0000)
My vote would be to completely remove the heal and boost Q's damage in compensation.
I wouldnt do that. He already does 400+ damage chunks on Q late game. They would have to bring back his W damage which would completely null the rework.
KING OF MASKS1 votesGuess you're right. Maybe alter the base/scaling ratio? I feel like the heal is extraneous, but at this point removing it completely would probably be too severe a nerf.
AthenasVendetta1 votes[{quoted}](name=Varin Omega,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZXAetwp9,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-17T06:05:00.952+0000)
I feel it is, its not that huge of a difference hitting 2 people and he still has low manager costs(better than pre rework where he was oom a lot).
Thoughts on maybe more sustain nerfs?
While I agree on the mana costs I also see that darius hasn't seen this amount of play in a long time. So the question is was it the heal that made him viable? There are ways of playing against him.
Now if we remove the heal from him, he'll have a hard time against tanks and other juggernauts... The heal although helpful isn't much use against a player that doesn't want to trade with you anyway.
his heal, being channeled, takes .75 secs to cast..... That is a long, long time. Enough for any champion to decide to dsash out or engage take reduced damage and no stacks. This being said what would you do to make him a juggernaut(A juggernaut, in current English usage, is a literal or metaphorical force regarded as mercilessly destructive and unstoppable)?
So if we remove the heal completely... How are we going to make this champion viable in any meta? So should we make his q cast time lower? with a low mana cost? Or increase his defensive stats? what would you propose?
IsIsGankedParis2 votesHonestly speaking, I want his heal to stay, it made him viable. People might need to adjust or are over reacting, not sure.
